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Need Detailed Help for Valium Liquid Titration


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Hi -

 

I am currently at 2.5mg of Valium (I have tapered down from 10mg since mid-October, following Ashton). I was using 10mg of Valium a day for 14 months.

 

I am so overwhelmed wondering how to titrate so I can do a slow, daily micro-taper. What do I ask my doctor to prescribe now? I have 2mg pills that I now cut with a razor (I didn't buy the $800 Gemini scale).

 

One buddie suggested getting liquid Valium.

 

Andy advice here or by PM would be so appreciated.

 

Thanks so much!

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1) Ask you doc for a scrip for Roxane/West Labs Diazepam Oral Solution,  5mg=5ml.

 

2) When You get it, make a dilute solution by combining 25ml/mg of that with 225ml water.  You will then have 250ml of dilute solution, .1mg per ml.  That will be approx a 10-12 day supply.

 

3) Try starting at .015mg/day reduction.  That's approx 9%/15 days.

 

Here's your daily dosing schedule: 

 

2.5mg          25ml

2.485mg      24.85ml

2.47mg          24.7ml

2.455mg        24.55ml

etc....

 

Just reduce your dose by .15ml (.015mg) each day.

 

You will need a 1ml and 10ml oral syringe, and a basic glass jar with a lid for mixing and storage.  You Rx liquid, and the diluted solution should be stored at room temp.

 

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Builder -

 

I won't be able to see my doctor for more than a week.

 

Can I use pills and water to make my own liquid? Do you know how to do that?

 

Thanks so much!

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Builder -

 

I won't be able to see my doctor for more than a week.

 

Can I use pills and water to make my own liquid? Do you know how to do that?

 

Thanks so much!

 

You can NOT use water, but you can dissolve your tablets in a small amount of vodka or propylene glycol, then dilute that with water.

 

Combine 50mgs tablets + 100ml vodka + 400ml water.  This gives you 500ml dilute liquid V, .1mg per ml.

 

Do a combo of tablets + liquid, using the liquid for the "cut" portion of your dose.  Take 10mg from tablets, and the rest of your dose from the liquid. 

 

Using the .1mg/ml solution, you can follow the schedule I gave you in the PM.  Cut .2ml (.002mg) from your dose each day.

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Thanks Builder - I only have 2mg tablets though. I am now at 2.5mg so tapering down from that.

 

Sorry, I got you confused with someone else I was helping. 

 

But regardless you where your at, the general instructions are the same.  The ratios to prepare your liquid are:

 

1mg:2ml vodka:8ml water.

 

To make approx a 10 day supply, multiply your starting dose X10.  If you are at 2.5mgs, and have only 2mg tablets, I would do:

 

20mgs +40ml vodka + 160ml water.

 

Store in a covered glass jar at room temp.

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Thank you so much Builder - I really really appreciate your help so much.

 

I have 10 2mg tablets that I will add to the vodka and water amounts you mentioned and store in a jar.

 

I am going to get 2 syringes too - how much would I dose to reduce from 2.5mg down over 10 days? I would like to go slow.

 

Sorry again for so many questions. I tried to use the spreadsheet but it confused me.

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Thank you so much Builder - I really really appreciate your help so much.

 

I have 10 2mg tablets that I will add to the vodka and water amounts you mentioned and store in a jar.

 

I am going to get 2 syringes too - how much would I dose to reduce from 2.5mg down over 10 days? I would like to go slow.

 

Sorry again for so many questions. I tried to use the spreadsheet but it confused me.

 

Here's a plan for cutting 10%/2weeks:

 

2.5mgX10%=.25mg

 

.25mg/ days = .0178  (round up to .018mg)  This is your daily reduction on milligrams

 

Schedule:

 

2.5mg            25ml

2.482mg        24.82ml

2.464mg        24.64ml

2.428mg        2.482ml

etc...

 

Just lower your dose by .18ml (.018mg) each day.

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I am so bad at math (failed it practically in high school)

 

So I deduct .018 from the last dose?

 

2.5mg            25ml

2.482mg        24.82ml

2.464mg        24.64ml

2.428mg        2.482ml

etc...

 

What would come after 2.428? I can't seem to get the math right (sorry - I am SO bad at math. I am trying to make a while 10 day schedule for this so I don't screw up)

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Builder, I always dissolve in the alcohol first and then add the water. I assumed that was necessary to make sure the benzo was dissolved. That's right, isn't it?

 

Sober, maybe you could just hold until you see your doctor if the dissolving is confusing? Just a thought. Another suggestion would be get your supplies and practice measuring using just water while you're waiting for your doctor. I started that way.

 

Also, once I change my benzo to a liquid dilution, I only think and measure it as a liquid dilution. I find that less confusing. So look at builder's ml measurements. Use a calculator and keep subtracting. So you would subtract .18ml each day.

 

I'm doing this based on builder's dilution since I don't figure dilutions for people lest I mess it up.

 

If I'm reading correctly, there's a typo in builder's reduction list. Subtracting .18ml daily, I get:

 

25ml

24.82ml

24.64ml

24.46ml

24.28ml

24.10ml

23.92ml

23.74ml

23.56ml

23.38ml

23.20ml

 

 

Somebody check my math, please. I usually show my math to my daughter to check, but she's not here. Sober, don't do anything unless builder or other titration guru agrees. I am not a titration guru.

 

Gard :)

 

P.S. I write my schedule out on a 3x5 card that I keep on my kitchen counter. The card says Sun, Mon, Tues, etc. down the side and then the dose for that day next to it. I cross it off when I take it. I use the extra space to write anything significant related to my taper such a a spike in symptoms. New week, new card. Keeps me in the right place.

 

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Thanks Gard!

 

I was just going to run and get the supplies and try and make up a batch for 14 days using 40ml vodka and 160ml water - I have 20 2mg Valium pills to use for this.

 

The reductions are used with the syringe right?

 

I really want to try a daily liquid taper as the last cut from 3mg to 2,5mg really hit me bad. I am 2 days into it and barely slept last night.

 

I also want to dose twice daily if I can as that helps me sleep better than taking the whole dose at night.

 

I am very math challenged and really tortured sweet Builder with questions.

 

Next week I can see my doctor and get liquid Valium or if I get the hang of this, I can continue on making the solution for every 14 days. The note cards are a great idea (as is practicing before I make the real solution).

 

I would love your input - you can PM me or respond here.

 

Some people have written that the switch to liquid was hard - I am hoping that is not the case for me. I definitely need to slow down my taper as I get lower and lower.

 

Thank you!!!!!

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Builder, I always dissolve in the alcohol first and then add the water. I assumed that was necessary to make sure the benzo was dissolved. That's right, isn't it?

 

Well, it might not be absolutely necessary, but it certainly is the best practice.

 

Sober, maybe you could just hold until you see your doctor if the dissolving is confusing? Just a thought. Another suggestion would be get your supplies and practice measuring using just water while you're waiting for your doctor. I started that way.

 

Also, once I change my benzo to a liquid dilution, I only think and measure it as a liquid dilution. I find that less confusing. So look at builder's ml measurements. Use a calculator and keep subtracting. So you would subtract .18ml each day.

 

I'm doing this based on builder's dilution since I don't figure dilutions for people lest I mess it up.

 

If I'm reading correctly, there's a typo in builder's reduction list. Subtracting .18ml daily, I get:

 

Your correct, you caught a typo (decimal in wrong place)  Shame on me! ;)

 

Your schedule below is correct.

 

25ml

24.82ml

24.64ml

24.46ml

24.28ml

24.10ml

23.92ml

23.74ml

23.56ml

23.38ml

23.20ml

 

 

Somebody check my math, please. I usually show my math to my daughter to check, but she's not here. Sober, don't do anything unless builder or other titration guru agrees. I am not a titration guru.

 

Gard :)

 

P.S. I write my schedule out on a 3x5 card that I keep on my kitchen counter. The card says Sun, Mon, Tues, etc. down the side and then the dose for that day next to it. I cross it off when I take it. I use the extra space to write anything significant related to my taper such a a spike in symptoms. New week, new card. Keeps me in the right place.

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Builder -

 

I am off to the store to buy everything I need.

 

I won't "feel" the vodka, right? I don't drink alcohol and haven't for years so that part scares me a bit.

 

And I use the syringe to take out the daily dose, correct?

 

Thank you again and sorry for being such a pain - I am having trouble only with how I dose correctly.

 

I am so thankful for all your help!

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Thanks Gard!

 

I was just going to run and get the supplies and try and make up a batch for 14 days using 40ml vodka and 160ml water - I have 20 2mg Valium pills to use for this.

 

The reductions are used with the syringe right?

 

I really want to try a daily liquid taper as the last cut from 3mg to 2,5mg really hit me bad. I am 2 days into it and barely slept last night.

 

I also want to dose twice daily if I can as that helps me sleep better than taking the whole dose at night.

 

I am very math challenged and really tortured sweet Builder with questions.

 

Next week I can see my doctor and get liquid Valium or if I get the hang of this, I can continue on making the solution for every 14 days. The note cards are a great idea (as is practicing before I make the real solution).

 

I would love your input - you can PM me or respond here.

 

Some people have written that the switch to liquid was hard - I am hoping that is not the case for me. I definitely need to slow down my taper as I get lower and lower.

 

Thank you!!!!!

 

Sober, some people hold for a week when they switch to liquid. I did. I've had several starts and stops. I always held a week when I liquefied another capsule. If you're still feeling the hit from your last cut, you might want to hold until your symptoms are manageable.

 

You probably want to use the measure and drink method. So your first day, you pull 25ml into your syringe and drink it. The next day you pull 24.82ml into your syringe and drink it. Like that.

 

You will want to practice and to look at some videos about how to measure with a syringe. You want to hold it upright and tap until any large air bubbles float to the top and out. Stuff like that. It's not hard. Do it a few times with water and you'll quickly get the hang of it. Also, some syringes have large tips. The drug in the tip is not part of the dose. It will remain there even after you push out the med. That's what it's supposed to do. This may sound confusing, but once you actually have the syringe to practice with, it will all become obvious.

 

Gard :)

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Sober, I wasn't following your med schedule or what builder worked out, if it was for once/daily or twice/daily dosing. I was just doing subtraction based on builder's dilution. I dare not wade into anything more complicated than that! If you need to switch something in your plan, builder can help. :thumbsup:

 

Best wishes!

 

Gard :)

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Builder -

 

I won't "feel" the vodka, right? I don't drink alcohol and haven't for years so that part scares me a bit.

 

 

Goodness, no, you won't. I'm not a drinker, either. I felt nothing and was taking quite a bit more earlier in my taper when my dose was so large. My doctor also OK-ed the vodka. Be sure to get 80 proof. I think that's typically how it comes. You should have seen the look from the guy at the store when I asked for 80 proof vodka, the cheapest, didn't care how it tasted. Probably should have not said it that way. :laugh:

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What would come after 2.428? I can't seem to get the math right (sorry - I am SO bad at math. I am trying to make a while 10 day schedule for this so I don't screw up)

 

"... deduct .018 from the last dose"

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Thanks Gard!

 

I just got a 5mil and a 10mil syringe (they didn't have one ml) and a pill crusher. I have a glass Pyrex measuring cup but it starts at 50 mil so maybe to measure the vodka I can use the 10mil syringe to get 40mil or do you think I can eyeball the 40?

 

I really want to switch to liquid as the pill splitting has become so inaccurate at 2.5mg of Valium...otherwise I could just wait and order a cylinder on Amazon....

 

Have you noticed improvements in s/x by switching to daily liquid doses?

 

 

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I think I need to wait as I the syringes I got start at 1mil so no idea how I can get .018 accurately using that....I will order everything on Amazon. I was so ready to stop this wonky pill cutting though...and I am away for 5 days so I will just have to do it when I get back...
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Builder, Hope - I am sorry for being such a pest and a slow learner. I really want to do this.

 

Hopefully when I get back I can get the Roxane/West Labs Diazepam Oral Solution,  5mg=5ml. as that sounds easier.

 

Thanks for all your help and I do apologize for asking so many questions. Math and measuring is not a talent I have.

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For clarification, it isn't the liquid that causes improvement, its the ability to make a series of tiny, controllable adjustments to you doses that comes from using (diluted) liquid.
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You'll get this, Sober. It does take a bit to get your supplies all lined up. When you do, you'll do fine.

 

I have links and pictures to my supplies (all from amazon) on my p-log (Gardener's Collection), if you want to see what I use. I think they're on the last page.

 

I have to use pull and pitch with Librium because it's not very stable as a liquid, so don't read my method of reducing. It will just confuse things. Use the regular system described earlier in this thread.

 

Gard :)

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