Returning: Not sure what's going on

Gave up tapering years ago at .33 mg klonopin. At the time, I was put on blood thinners; and for some reason no one can explain, couldnt make even the tiniest cut after that. Even tried as slow as 1% per year and had to give up.

 

At any rate, I have been stable at that dose since then. Now it feels like I'm having WDs even though I'm NOT tapering.

 

I currently am being treated for high hemoglobin and have numerous phlebotomies. Have been trying to find out if all this blood letting could have reduced the amount of drug in my system. No one seems to be able to answer this definitively. I've posted in a few places. Received great support; but again, no one knows the answer.

 

The other possibility is I'm in tolerance. If that's the case; what is the protocol? Do you have to updose before starting a taper?

 

Though many of the symptoms seem like WD, I'm not 100% positive since the symptoms are either brought on or intensified after having a good bowel movement. This is something that never happened in my previous withdrawals, and also sounds very much like a vagus nerve problem...many of the symptoms rhyme.

 

Right now I'm treading water, not doing anything until I can sort this out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

I have tried to look for that thread from a couple of yrs ago, I mentioned, but no luck so far...

Putting Plasma into a search on the WD support board got some general results but I didnt notice anything too specific...

 

I was pretty out of it, but I do remember they bumped my IV antibiotics and morphine a little after transfusions in hospital...

 

Im no expert, but I would have thought that levels would pick up again fairly well after removing a modest amount of blood.. Some should come from fat deposits and obviously more from continued dosing.. But then, being extra sensitive is something I understand too...

 

I wish I could help you more.. but sorry -only guesses...

I sure hope it isnt tolerance either..

 

Hope you get better replies...

 

Thanks again Cantfly.

 

Everywhere I've tried, I get few responses; all of which apologize for not knowing about the subject.

 

My next appointment with the blood doctor is the start of February; but I seem to be getting worse day by day and not sure I can wait that long. Was considering the ER today.

 

While I'm 90% sure it's WDs, the increased symptoms after a bowel movement thing throws me and my research on that all seems to point to a vagus nerve issue, which apparently is the largest nerve in the body and, like benzos, seems to affect just about everything.

 

I tried a small tentative updose to .5 for one day on Tuesday after which I seem to have gotten even worse. Not sure if this is some rebound from that. It certainly did no good; but then again, it was a very small updose. The last time I had to updose, it took going from .19 all the way up to .5 to have any affect.

Yah, I often wonder about the vagas nerves, not just how the meds impact it, which im sure they must... -But all the physical damage of having half a pelvis end up in my lung, and the issues of a changed pelvic ring shape...

I used to get pretty insane sciatica from a hard bolus moving through a certain part of my lower GI tract..  But as my peristalsis improved, so has this... It was a hard one, because all the meds that releived the SX actually compounded the problem in the longer term... This is a big part of what forced me to taper so slow, and to reinstate at low dose a particular or specific opiate... I do feel quite blessed that its slowly all untangling itself...

 

Its been a while since I looked at the Vagas so i did a quick google and found this interesting at a basic level, on what is a huge subject...

 

https://selfhacked.com/blog/32-ways-to-stimulate-your-vagus-nerve-and-all-you-need-to-know-about-it/

 

I guess I was in a similar position, -a little too out of the box to get much specific help, but slowly it all came together... The support and encouragement here has been superb..

 

I wish you the best as you keep trying to put it all together... I remember a moment when one "click" in a citation changed the whole game... Dont give up...!!

 

 

 

Thanks Cantfly. That vagus info looks great. Don't know if I need to stimulate it or depress it though. Just skimmed it for now, probably explains it somewhere. Definitely have a bunch of this stuff before this started, and one of the newer symptoms with this possible WD is weird feeling in the throat.

Just thought of something else. Likely grasping at straws; but I noticed a number of people complaining about the strength of certain brands of generics.

 

A little before all this started my drug store started giving me my K in all different colors. Was yellow for as long as I've taken it and now all of a sudden it's pink one month and orange the next.

 

They said it was just a different brand; but I didn't trust it. For one thing these new colors didn't disolve well or stay suspended in the water. So I started taking first a mixture of these new ones with my regular yellow ones; then pulled out an old bottle (I have a stash since I don't take the full prescribed dose).

 

It occurred to me this morning that perhaps not only are these new pills inferior, but the old yellows I used might be too old.

 

Can't try it until tomorrow since I've already sipped at today's batch; but I separated all the newer yellows from the weird colored ones and mixed up a witches brew of new yellows for tomorrow.

 

It's a possibility.

 

Also, when this first happened, I mentioned it to my doctor who said she could prescribe a particular brand; but I have no way of distinguishing brand just color. Guess I'd have to contact the pharmacy to get the name of the yellows should this prove to be the problem.

It is quite possible from what I read...  Some, and not just a few, have reported serious issues... Even CT like effects...

Enough that there is a support group formed, -Tiva Discontinuation SG, or something like that..

Member Intendtobeoff has put quite some time into looking in to this...  Sorry, its not something I had to worry about... (thank goodness)

My understanding is that these are pretty stable with a long shelf life.. (I read somewhere Valium was tested at 14 years and still ok, in one instance) -But perhaps worth checking...??

 

I always thought klonopin was pretty long lasting. My original doctor told me they were good for 2 or 3 years after the expiration date.

 

At one point I was taking the oldest first, then I figured, why? And switched to the new ones. Not sure how old the ones I was taking were now; the date on the bottle says 2016, but it's filled to the brim so likely the bottle is the newest part and the 2016 pills are at the bottom.

 

Like I said, I'm probably grasping at straws; but it is a possibility. If nothing else; just one more thing contributing to the situation.

 

Guess I'll start finding out tomorrow. Gotta remember to tell myself that even if it is true; it will probably take a while to make a difference, and not flip out when it doesn't instantly cure me.

Considering your situation, you seem pretty level headed about it all..

 

If you can eliminate the question of generic change, that would be one thing..

I was a bit sceptical at first, but it soon became clear to me that it is yet another factor that needs consideration...

 

Good luck mate...

Thanks. Same to you!

 

Just thought of something else. Likely grasping at straws; but I noticed a number of people complaining about the strength of certain brands of generics.

 

A little before all this started my drug store started giving me my K in all different colors. Was yellow for as long as I've taken it and now all of a sudden it's pink one month and orange the next.

 

They said it was just a different brand; but I didn't trust it. For one thing these new colors didn't disolve well or stay suspended in the water. So I started taking first a mixture of these new ones with my regular yellow ones; then pulled out an old bottle (I have a stash since I don't take the full prescribed dose).

 

It occurred to me this morning that perhaps not only are these new pills inferior, but the old yellows I used might be too old.

 

Can't try it until tomorrow since I've already sipped at today's batch; but I separated all the newer yellows from the weird colored ones and mixed up a witches brew of new yellows for tomorrow.

 

It's a possibility.

 

Also, when this first happened, I mentioned it to my doctor who said she could prescribe a particular brand; but I have no way of distinguishing brand just color. Guess I'd have to contact the pharmacy to get the name of the yellows should this prove to be the problem.

 

I honestly have a feeling this may be it. Teva being discontinued messed me up royally, currently trying to stabilize on a mix of solco and name brand. I've heard people say that some of the brand's felt like a huge cut or a ct. I had to updose and still having trouble stabilizing. If you were taking teva .5 it's possible to try moving to their dissolving tablets? A lot of the ingredients are the same as the tablets, with stuff added for taste of course.

The bowel movement thing is odd, but does seem to point to the vagus nerve.

What are the symptoms?   

 

I honestly have a feeling this may be it. Teva being discontinued messed me up royally, currently trying to stabilize on a mix of solco and name brand. I've heard people say that some of the brand's felt like a huge cut or a ct. I had to updose and still having trouble stabilizing. If you were taking teva .5 it's possible to try moving to their dissolving tablets? A lot of the ingredients are the same as the tablets, with stuff added for taste of course.

The bowel movement thing is odd, but does seem to point to the vagus nerve.

What are the symptoms? 

 

Hi Byrjun!

 

Interesting. So was Teva the yellow .5s? And you are saying they no longer make them?

 

Right now it seems to have progressed to more generalized WDs; but when they first started, the symptoms (cold/wet spots on the skin, dagger-like pains in back of hands, weird swallowing, and a weird hollow-feeling weakness) would only come on after a satisfying bowel movement. Strange, huh.

 

I honestly have a feeling this may be it. Teva being discontinued messed me up royally, currently trying to stabilize on a mix of solco and name brand. I've heard people say that some of the brand's felt like a huge cut or a ct. I had to updose and still having trouble stabilizing. If you were taking teva .5 it's possible to try moving to their dissolving tablets? A lot of the ingredients are the same as the tablets, with stuff added for taste of course.

The bowel movement thing is odd, but does seem to point to the vagus nerve.

What are the symptoms? 

 

Hi Byrjun!

 

Interesting. So was Teva the yellow .5s? And you are saying they no longer make them?

 

Right now it seems to have progressed to more generalized WDs; but when they first started, the symptoms (cold/wet spots on the skin, dagger-like pains in back of hands, weird swallowing, and a weird hollow-feeling weakness) would only come on after a satisfying bowel movement. Strange, huh.

That does seem sort of odd yes.... But again guessing it may be something with the vagus nerve? Pooping can stimulate it, one way to stop heart palpitations is to beardown like you're trying to have a bm, this didnt seem to do much for me in acute but helped when my heart felt like it skipped a beat.

As far as I know recs was the only yellow .5. Pink I think is accord. Teva took over actavis and is using their brand...which is horrific tbh. I've read of one person having to go from 1mg to 6 in the actavis because her normal dose wasn't helping. at best Ive heard generic changes feel like a cut and It may take a bit for your body to get used to 😞

Well that is for people like us, as for the people who can just come off this crap, I'm sure a generic change wouldn't phase them

Thanks Byrjun.

 

How do you know the brand name beside the color? My doctor said she could prescribe a particular brand. You say the yellow was called recs?

 

Thanks Byrjun.

 

How do you know the brand name beside the color? My doctor said she could prescribe a particular brand. You say the yellow was called recs?

 

Sorry, darn autocorrect, Yellow .5 as far as I know is TEVA, and they are no longer made.

It'll tell the manufacturer on your pill bottle, or you can type into google the color of the pill and what it written on it and find out the maker. I've memorized a lot of the brands/colors

Solco is okay for me, but still may feel like a big cut

Solco (also called qualitest in some places) has a stylized V on it, with numbers on the back (different depending on dose) is kind of a light pink

 

Accord is very plain, only has a score mark and the dosage usually, darker pink

 

Actavis isn't flat but still round, 'bulged' in the centers with an R and 33, also an odd pink color

 

you can look for the one you have here https://pillbox.nlm.nih.gov/pillimage/search_results.php?submit=search&splid=&getingredient=clonazepam

and get the brand and know thats not a brand you want then

Thanks. Will have to check on that. Electricity coming and going here. Hope that was the problem. Been taking mostly yellow since this started; but was folding the orange and pink back in here and there and really mixed a lot this week when things got really bad; so hope that's it and will just take a while to adjust. Got a supply of yellows, though they might be too old.

 

Heard something scary on a FB benzo group. They say doctors have been issued an edict to only prescribe 4 weeks (or 4 scripts). If true, that would be a disaster.

Thanks. Will have to check on that. Electricity coming and going here. Hope that was the problem. Been taking mostly yellow since this started; but was folding the orange and pink back in here and there and really mixed a lot this week when things got really bad; so hope that's it and will just take a while to adjust. Got a supply of yellows, though they might be too old.

 

Heard something scary on a FB benzo group. They say doctors have been issued an edict to only prescribe 4 weeks (or 4 scripts). If true, that would be a disaster.

Hope that's not true. But I know last time I got a script my doc filled it for only 30 instead of the normal 90

Mine has never written for more than 30 days.

Solco (also called qualitest in some places) has a stylized V on it, with numbers on the back (different depending on dose) is kind of a light pink

 

Accord is very plain, only has a score mark and the dosage usually, darker pink

 

Actavis isn't flat but still round, 'bulged' in the centers with an R and 33, also an odd pink color

 

you can look for the one you have here https://pillbox.nlm.nih.gov/pillimage/search_results.php?submit=search&splid=&getingredient=clonazepam

and get the brand and know thats not a brand you want then

 

My pink ones have the R 33 so I guess that's the shitty one.

The orange one I couldn't find on that chart. It is blank on the unscored side with a 1 above the score and a 2 below the score on the other side.

 

So the Solco is good? And is there still the actual name brand Klonopin?

Solco (also called qualitest in some places) has a stylized V on it, with numbers on the back (different depending on dose) is kind of a light pink

 

Accord is very plain, only has a score mark and the dosage usually, darker pink

 

Actavis isn't flat but still round, 'bulged' in the centers with an R and 33, also an odd pink color

 

you can look for the one you have here https://pillbox.nlm.nih.gov/pillimage/search_results.php?submit=search&splid=&getingredient=clonazepam

and get the brand and know thats not a brand you want then

 

My pink ones have the R 33 so I guess that's the shitty one.

The orange one I couldn't find on that chart. It is blank on the unscored side with a 1 above the score and a 2 below the score on the other side.

 

So the Solco is good? And is there still the actual name brand Klonopin?

 

Ahh, yes you have actavis, and it does seem like youre not reacting the best to it (so many people are the same, its criminal!). Orange sounds like Accord.

Solco was good for ME, I have heard others say otherwise, name brand K is still made by Roche, that way you at least know you're getting the exact dose per pill! For me my body doesn't seem to like it

Again there are also TEVA brand orally dissolving tablets! If youre not using for sleep these may work well, they may work well even if you are using for sleep though, they just come on VERY fast

 

 

The dissolving ones probably have other ingredients I'm allergic to if they are trying to make it taste good - maltodextrin, dextrose, corn syrup, etc.; so I guess I'll try to get the original name brand K. Will probably have to pay extra.

 

Thanks Byrjun. This has been very helpful. Was going nuts trying to figure out why I was in WD. These two must be really weak because I didn't even take much. Since I have to titrate in water, I would use one of them to about 4 or five of the good ones and it still came on like cold turkey; albeit over time.

 

I'm currently doing an experiment with vitamins, that actually seems to be working. Will let you know if it continues. The other day, after stopping all vitamins, I felt so bad I said what the hell I'll put back the vitamin C. So I took 3,000 mgs and within a half hour felt good. Googled it, and found it's a thing. I've always taken a good amount of vitamins, but this involves huge amounts of C and niacin spread out through the day; both of which I was already taking; just not in such large amounts,; also includes GABA.

 

Anyway, felt good all day yesterday, slept without nightmares, woke up and didn't feel that great, until I started cranking up the c and niacin. The only problem is it gives me a slight headache; but compared to the horrible wds, I'll take it. Not sure it will last. The site claimed some guy was able to cut 1 mg of Xanax by 60% in one week and was done in five.    https://riordanclinic.org/2014/03/supplements-accelerate-benzodiazepine-withdrawal-a-case-report-and-biochemical-rationale/

 

Thanks again for all your help.

The dissolving ones probably have other ingredients I'm allergic to if they are trying to make it taste good - maltodextrin, dextrose, corn syrup, etc.; so I guess I'll try to get the original name brand K. Will probably have to pay extra.

 

Thanks Byrjun. This has been very helpful. Was going nuts trying to figure out why I was in WD. These two must be really weak because I didn't even take much. Since I have to titrate in water, I would use one of them to about 4 or five of the good ones and it still came on like cold turkey; albeit over time.

 

I'm currently doing an experiment with vitamins, that actually seems to be working. Will let you know if it continues. The other day, after stopping all vitamins, I felt so bad I said what the hell I'll put back the vitamin C. So I took 3,000 mgs and within a half hour felt good. Googled it, and found it's a thing. I've always taken a good amount of vitamins, but this involves huge amounts of C and niacin spread out through the day; both of which I was already taking; just not in such large amounts,; also includes GABA.

 

Anyway, felt good all day yesterday, slept without nightmares, woke up and didn't feel that great, until I started cranking up the c and niacin. The only problem is it gives me a slight headache; but compared to the horrible wds, I'll take it. Not sure it will last. The site claimed some guy was able to cut 1 mg of Xanax by 60% in one week and was done in five.    https://riordanclinic.org/2014/03/supplements-accelerate-benzodiazepine-withdrawal-a-case-report-and-biochemical-rationale/

 

Thanks again for all your help.

I'm sensitive to ingredients too.

 

Well remember that's just one guy, everyone is different. I know a few who CTd with no problems

 

Well remember that's just one guy, everyone is different. I know a few who CTd with no problems

 

Lucky them.

Just picked up a new script today and it's back to yellow. Looked it up and it seems to be Qualitest Pharmaceuticals.

 

Any optinion on that?

 

The vitamin thing seems to be wearing off. That's happened to me a few times with other things.