To Ashton or daily microtaper

...that is the question. I have to decide on a program soon. Microtaper will help me to stay functional and keep my job. Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker but I run the risk of bad withdrawal and losing function. What to do....

Professor...

This is debi- charmed twice-

No cold turkey- omg

Go to new benzo coalition started in 2016.

I have a call in to try and get on board somehow in Los Angeles but was weekend- I want to see how to join Coalition- or help-

It is my long experience (1997) (was diagnosed with WpW (Wolfe Parkinson white syndrome- extra conductor in heart from birth) when symptomatic- tachycardia and then Ativan- became prob years later when I closed a huge business 15 yrs In - after 9-11. Lost my shirt and attacks were daily with tachycardia - then Ativan everyday-for three years- jumped off 2008 till 2016 when attacks came back-

It is my strong understanding that no huge cut or cold turkey is advisable no matter what- I’m working too (taper in 2008 I could stay at home)and last time I finally realized I had to taper I didn’t do everything right but I took 8 months and found psychiatrist willing to cross me to Valium- problems I didn’t tweak and doc was just following my literature- he was cool-  but I got off- you’re body is unique and U have  been 10 yrs on Xanax! Bravo you are still going to class and teaching??!! Wow! U are my hero!

Tapering slow with cuts, water, milk, Valium cross etc- a ton of different ways safer- this forum is s good one! A lot of very knowledgeable people! check out coalition and heather ashton site-

I am not against American medicine I just think there is a lot to learn out there- maybe most don’t know- Idk???

Good luck and stay informed and listen to body-

Did the up-dose take? Or was it too late to correct cold turkey?

Yours,

 

Edit: remove personal information

...that is the question. I have to decide on a program soon. Microtaper will help me to stay functional and keep my job. Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker but I run the risk of bad withdrawal and losing function. What to do....

 

"Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker..."

Probably not!

 

It is a misconception to think a daily microtaper is a slow taper.  It is more gradual, but usually NOT slower.

 

If you cut 1mg and held for 10 days, or if you cut .1mg each day for 10 days, at the end of 10 days, your down 1mg either way.

 

Some folks find they can actually go faster on a DLMT as they find it much easier and more tolerable.

...that is the question. I have to decide on a program soon. Microtaper will help me to stay functional and keep my job. Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker but I run the risk of bad withdrawal and losing function. What to do....

 

"Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker..."

Probably not!

 

It is a misconception to think a daily microtaper is a slow taper.  It is more gradual, but usually NOT slower.

 

If you cut 1mg and held for 10 days, or if you cut .1mg each day for 10 days, at the end of 10 days, your down 1mg either way.

 

Some folks find they can actually go faster on a DLMT as they find it much easier and more tolerable.

 

I understand that better now. Thanks. However, I was advised on the titration board to start daily cuts at .01. That’s why I thought it would take forever. 

...that is the question. I have to decide on a program soon. Microtaper will help me to stay functional and keep my job. Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker but I run the risk of bad withdrawal and losing function. What to do....

 

"Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker..."

Probably not!

 

It is a misconception to think a daily microtaper is a slow taper.  It is more gradual, but usually NOT slower.

 

If you cut 1mg and held for 10 days, or if you cut .1mg each day for 10 days, at the end of 10 days, your down 1mg either way.

 

Some folks find they can actually go faster on a DLMT as they find it much easier and more tolerable.

 

I understand that better now. Thanks. However, I was advised on the titration board to start daily cuts at .01. That’s why I thought it would take forever.

 

But the principle is the same.

 

.01 X 10 days, or .1 once every 10 days, is still .1 per 10 days.  Its the taper rate that determines how long it takes, NOT the taper method.

...that is the question. I have to decide on a program soon. Microtaper will help me to stay functional and keep my job. Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker but I run the risk of bad withdrawal and losing function. What to do....

 

"Ashton gets the poison out of my system quicker..."

Probably not!

 

It is a misconception to think a daily microtaper is a slow taper.  It is more gradual, but usually NOT slower.

 

If you cut 1mg and held for 10 days, or if you cut .1mg each day for 10 days, at the end of 10 days, your down 1mg either way.

 

Some folks find they can actually go faster on a DLMT as they find it much easier and more tolerable.

 

I understand that better now. Thanks. However, I was advised on the titration board to start daily cuts at .01. That’s why I thought it would take forever.

 

But the principle is the same.

 

.01 X 10 days, or .1 once every 10 days, is still .1 per 10 days.  Its the taper rate that determines how long it takes, NOT the taper method.

 

Do you also recommend starting as low as .01 per day? I’m starting at 14mg Valium and can’t imagine tapering for years. There are folks on here that did Ashton for that amount in 6-8 months.

 

Do you also recommend starting as low as .01 per day? I’m starting at 14mg Valium and can’t imagine tapering for years. There are folks on here that did Ashton for that amount in 6-8 months.

 

There are folks that discontinue benzos in a matter of a few weeks, with no real organized plan, and very little discomfort.  And there are folks here on BB that have been struggling and miserable for years.  (See my last comment on your other thread)

 

Personally, I would start at about a 5%/2weeks rate.  That would be .05mg/day.

 

14mg X 5% = .7mg

 

.7mg/14 days = .05mg/day

 

I actually started my taper from 15mg/day.  I started doing C&H, .5mg every 2 weeks.  It was always difficult, at at 9mg, it became intolerable.  Based on my experience with both C&H and DLMT, about 5%/2 weeks is the limit of my comfort zone.  Many folks are able to go faster than that, so 5%/2 weeks is really a pretty conservative rate.

 

My DLMT from 9mg took about 2 years.  But...I was fully functional, and had only minor, occasional sxs, all of which could be managed with common meds. 

 

My objective was to minimize discomfort, and remain functional.  Yours may be different.

 

Do you also recommend starting as low as .01 per day? I’m starting at 14mg Valium and can’t imagine tapering for years. There are folks on here that did Ashton for that amount in 6-8 months.

 

There are folks that discontinue benzos in a matter of a few weeks, with no real organized plan, and very little discomfort.  And there are folks here on BB that have been struggling and miserable for years.  (See my last comment on your other thread)

 

Personally, I would start at about a 5%/2weeks rate.  That would be .05mg/day.

 

14mg X 5% = .7mg

 

.7mg/14 days = .05mg/day

 

I actually started my taper from 15mg/day.  I started doing C&H, .5mg every 2 weeks.  It was always difficult, at at 9mg, it became intolerable.  Based on my experience with both C&H and DLMT, about 5%/2 weeks is the limit of my comfort zone.  Many folks are able to go faster than that, so 5%/2 weeks is really a pretty conservative rate.

 

My DLMT from 9mg took about 2 years.  But...I was fully functional, and had only minor, occasional sxs, all of which could be managed with common meds. 

 

My objective was to minimize discomfort, and remain functional.  Yours may be different.

.

 

So if I dissolve one of my 5mg tablets  in 50ml of milk (taking the rest of the dose in pill form), how much do you recommend I reduce per day?

I just don’t know the math. What would the 5%\2 week rate look like in terms of reductions if I’m dissolving 5mg in 50ml of milk?

Per my calculation above, 5% of your total dose every 14 days would be a daily reduction of .05mgs per day.

 

A solution of 5mgs in 50mls is .1mg per ml.

So .05mgs would be .5ml.  (just move the decimal point)

 

Your schedule would be:

 

9mg tablets        50mls (5mg) liquid

9mg tablets        49.5ml (4.95mg)

9mg                    49ml (4.9mg)

9mg                    48.5ml (4.85mg)

etc....

I vote for microtaper. 

I got one recommendation to reduce at .01 per day and another to reduce at .05 per day. Are you sure dropping .7mg in two weeks is conservative?

Since I am the one who recommended starting at .01, I will give my opinion again, that .05 is too aggressive to start with for a daily reduction. I do disagree with builder on this.

 

Why are you stuck on the starting daily reduction amount? It can be increased, it is just a starting #, not a dictation of your entire taper. As I replied before, it is far better to start slow and ease up than it is to try and correct a too aggressive start. It's really that simple, IMO.

 

 

 

 

Got it. Thanks! I will have to think this over and make up my own mind I guess.

 

I should be thinking about my job and my wife right now, not this :-(

I agree with everybody!

 

Builder is right that a daily micro taper at 5% every 2 weeks is a very safe, sensible rate, which will allow most people, once stable, to live their life while removing the drug.

 

I also agree with benzo-off that there is something to be said for starting even slower, and working up to the 5% reductions, especially coming from a recent period of instability. I would start tapering right away at a very slow rate, working up to a quicker pace by the time you have stabilized. Maybe split the difference and cut 0.02 a day for 2 weeks, then 0.03 a day for 2 weeks, then 0.04 a day for 2 weeks, then 0.05 a day for 4 weeks, then evaluate how you are feeling. Keep in mind that as you reduce your dose, you will be removing a higher percentage of the (now smaller) dose, so if you follow this plan you will be above 5% every 2 weeks when you start removing 0.05 per day.

 

Most important, like benzo-off said, is that you are in control of this and can change it at any time. Just pick a low amount to start with and slowly work up to larger reductions, listening to your body and slowing down if symptoms arise. Don't try to plan the whole thing out today, it will only overwhelm and paralyze you, and, in the end, leave you feeling either disappointed it didn't work the way you planned or feeling like you wasted your time agonizing over it because it was easier than it seemed. The best way to learn is to do! No?

FOLLOWING

 

 

Microtaper, starting at a low dose until you see how you do.

Am I doing this right? I know no exact right or wrong but am on 2.75 this is 0.413 on micro scales so removing 0.001 every day for last 14 days then going to try 0.002 or do I need to re measure amounts to make sure not to over do the micro taper amounts?

Also I’m tapering to now 0.056 am and 2 mg at night as wanted to leave just the evening dose left ? Mentally I’m ok physically it’s been very painful aT times ? Should I switch the whole dose to pm now and taper from there Opinions greatly appreciated

Git that wrong it’s 0.154 pm and was 0.065 morning now 0.056

Yeah, give it a try. If you feel worse you can always move it back, but you are almost at recommended drop dose on the small one, it can't be therapeutic, so you should be okay to move it.

Thanks for the reply dude ! I think I agree

Microtaper, starting at a low dose until you see how you do.

 

I might should have said daily liquid micro taper.  I believe it would be much easier and accurate.  Yes, you are so low, I believe you could combine and take all at night. Mary

Thanks! Thanks 🙏🏻

Thanks! Thanks 🙏🏻

 

Good luck🍀

And I would think you would be okay to try 0.002/day. Your last 2 week reduction from 427 to 413 was a 3.2% cut, your 2 week reduction of 0.002/day (from 413 to 385) would be a 6.7% cut. If you want a middle ground, you could alternate between 0.001 and 0.002 per day.