back to back rapid detoxes

Hello All,

Back in Aug 2018, my mother cut her Xanax dose in half. She did this without consulting a doctor.  She also did not tell her significant other or me that she was doing this.  It was a month before she let us know what she had done.  In that time, she started to experience heavy withdrawal symptoms.  Extreme paranoia, delusions, and derealization among many others.  I convinced her to go back on her original dose in late September, but she didn't made any real progress. In fact, she may be worse.  She is VERY disconnected and confused, but also quite disagreeable to advice/help.  She has stopped answering my calls/texts, and she has thrown out the rest of her current prescription because she says it's not working.  So, my questions are:

At this point, is it worth trying the Ashton protocol or other medications?  It seems that the month she cut her dose in half set into motion these symptoms and, from what I've read here and other sites, it looks like there's very little that can be done pharmaceutically to help her out.

In her current state, she is barely functional. She talks in circles, makes little sense, and is mentally stuck in delusion. She's almost completely in her own world and hasn't really registered what's causing her distress.  I'm curious about just how common it is that someone goes this far out when they withdrawal.

thanks for reading and any input is appreciated!

Hi momsoffhermeds,

I'm so sorry to hear about your mom, I'm sure you're feeling worried and helpless, but it's so good you're educating yourself, knowledge is power.  She's hurting...emotionally, physically and mentally, and if you can help her to understand what's happening to her, it will help you both.  If you can get her to understand, the next best thing you can do is listen when she tries to describe what she's feeling.  Let her know you hear her pain and even if you can't understand it, you can validate that she's really feeling it. 

When I was going through withdrawals, and before I found this place, no one in my world understood what was happening to me, including me.  To have just one person in my life who could listen without judgement and doubt would have made a huge difference in my level of fear and pain, so I'm happy you're attempting to learn about hers.

When your mom cut her dose in half, she set the stage for withdrawal and her nervous system reacted accordingly, going back to the original dose doesn't always work because she may have been experiencing tolerance at that dose.  You probably know that as our bodies adapt to the drug, we need more and more to achieve the same effects, so even while taking the drug, we're feeling withdrawal symptoms.  It's maddeing because we don't know what's happening to us, we think our anxiety is getting worse but in fact, it's the drug. 

If she's thrown her meds away, it sounds like she's going to do a cold turkey, that's what I did.  We don't recommend this because it's dangerous and can make the process much more difficult, but it's survivable, I'm here to attest to that.  The best thing you can do for her right now is to get her to understand that a slow taper would be best, help her significant other to understand what's happening to her, and work with her Dr on prescribing her a slow taper plan. 

Thank you for reaching out for her, she needs your help.

Heretohelp 

How old is she??? Age can play a huge role in this. I think it is great you are trying to help her, and educating yourself is a good start.

east

Huh. I am 69 or will be in March. In the medical world 68 is YOUNG.

I am quite concerned here.

How long did she take benzos? Is there any possibility she was taking more than prescribed? What other meds is she on? I can help you better knowing this. ( I am also an RN of many years, currently not practicing.) How is her overall health?? Has she had any unexp0lained falls? Does she drink alcohol?

PM me is you want. I am concerned about her. I will try to help you, if I get more information.

east

Thanks for the reply,

She has been on them for 8-10 years. She was on the same dosage for a long time (2mg per day) and was not taking more than prescribed.  She's not a big drinker and has not had any falls.  Regarding her health, she a few issues but is not "infirmed" and is generally pretty active.

thanks

Okay. If you are pretty sure she is not taking more benzos than prescribed, I guess she is just one of those people who are extra sensitive to benzos. Benzos should only be taken for - MAX - a month. Your Mom has been on them FAR too long. That usually leads to an unpleasant and difficult withdrawal.

My suggestion to you would be to speak with her prescribing doctor and have her get CUT OFF from benzos once and for all. Many doctors are unaware of the true dangers of benzos.

Older people, and especially women, are more prone to having very negative things happen if they continue to take benzos. Benzos caused me to fall a lot, and in those falls I broke several bones. Your mother does NOT need to go through this, if she stays OFF benzos entirely. This is why speaking to her physician is a good idea. And if that doctor doesn't "get it", get her a new doctor.

Benzos are far more dangerous than most people including doctors, know.

Let me know what happens.

east 

Thanks for the reply,

 

She has been on them for 8-10 years. She was on the same dosage for a long time (2mg per day) and was not taking more than prescribed.  She's not a big drinker and has not had any falls.  Regarding her health, she a few issues but is not "infirmed" and is generally pretty active.

 

thanks

I suggest your mother seek the advise of a qualified doctor. You state she was not experiencing problems pre w/d. If nothing else has changed, w/d is a possible cause of the symptoms which you've described. w/d symptoms may persist for a very long time. Suddenly reducing or stopping the use of benzos may be dangerous and may affect her and her family's quality of life. A qualified doctor will try to obtain the patient's relevant history, evaluate current distress, can order further testing and make recommendations based upon his/her experience and knowledge. best wishes

I respect your mum for coming off these drugs. You should never underestimate the courage she has to do this. Not many people take this step.

Be kind, sensitive and provide practical help. The best thing that anyone can do to support someone going through this hell is to be informed.

She's lucky to have you.

She has a doctor appointment on Monday.  Her doctor saw her a month and a half ago and realized she was in bad shape. He re-prescribed her original dose of Xanax and also added a Celexa prescription.  She discontinued taking the Celexa after a couple days. From what I've read since, it doesn't seem like an SSRI would help her situation, though she didn't take it long enough to find out.  I'm guessing the Dr. will tell her to try it again.  I live a couple states away but will try to be there for this appointment and see exactly what he says. 

Has anyone here tried an SSRI during their withdrawal?  If so, what were the results?

Hi momsoffhermeds,

Thank you again for helping her, educating yourself to her situation is so important, especially in her diminished capacity due to withdrawal  She's having a tough time thinking through her options at the moment, so your clear headed thinking is very important.

Adding more drugs to the mix isn't always the best route, we're inundated with sensations, emotions, and fears, so adding another mind altering substance isn't always the best course.  If of course, the Dr is adament that it is neccessary to treat serious suicidal ideation then you must defer to his judgement, but in my experience, it wasn't helpful.  The only cure for this process seems to be time, time away from the drug and time to make it through the withdrawal symptoms.  We feel powerless, but time is the only thing which seems to help.

Heretohelp

Here's the update.  She never went to the doctor's, as she was in a two day window and decided that she was just fine without the drugs. Of course, this changed soon after and after a couple weeks, she decided to reinstate her original dosage.  In the months that have passed since this all started, there hasn't been much of a change in her symptoms.  Her behavior often gets extreme and she accuses us (her loved ones) of plotting against her.  A few days ago, she was wandering around in the middle of the night and freaking out her neighbors.  The police were called, but she was not taken in.  It's been quite a trying time. 

I emailed her doctor about this and he claims that you don't withdraw from benzos for this long and that something else is going on. I realize now that he doesn't know that some people do have protracted withdrawals, and that these ongoing issues only appeared when she initially cut her dosage. But, is it possible for non-withdrawal mental issues to appear from sudden benzo cessation?

Also, I'm worried that she's going to do something foolish and get involuntarily committed.  I know it's a shot in the dark, but are there any strategies for dealing with someone so out of control?

thank you all very much

"But, is it possible for non-withdrawal mental issues to appear from sudden benzo cessation?"

It's possible for mental issues to appear, and hopefully disappear, whether benzos were involved or not. In my opinion, it may not be wise to change her benzo dosage during her current state of mind.

"I know it's a shot in the dark, but are there any strategies for dealing with someone so out of control?"

Having cared for someone who experienced strange and potentially dangerous behaviors, I suggest: she have a companion stay with her and monitor her use of all medications, it may not be safe for her to drive, perhaps look into making her home safer like shutting off the gas to the stove except for cooking, consider installing more secure or electrically monitored entrance/exit doors to the house so she doesn't wander during the night, perhaps install video surveillance and consider other ideas that will improve both her sense of security and her actual security.

I'm so sorry for the situation you and your mother currently face and hope things will improve. sincerely, best wishes

How old is your mother?

If over 60, it IS pissible she has some sort of dementia going on PLUS she is on benzos. What other meds does she take?

I think FiA's suggestions are good ones. A person in this state should not be left alone. No matter what the cause of her erratic behavior. She is NOT safe living on her own right now.

I have been in your shoes. My Dad had brain damage from alcohol, and his behavior was similar. The nursing home I had to put him in did not recognize the signs of a super low sodium. He was discharged and that very night he fell and got a concussion. That was the end of his independant living days. He was moved to another nursging home and lived a few more months, becoming progressively more cconfused.

You are doing something so wonderful. Sticking by your mother in her time of real need. I know you do not live near here. That makes it more stressful for you.

Let us know what happens and I hope you reply to my PM to you.

east

Hi momsoffher meds,

I got your PM but am currently unable to respond there. Technical stuff, I guess. And I am NOT a techie!

Your mom has a bad time of it, but in truth it seems as if YOU are bearing the most stress about it all. I am so sorry. These drugs should be used very sparingly in older adults. And usually should NOT be prescribed at all. Its impossible to tell if dementia is there or its all benzo related. You have my sympathy on this. And I give you a lot of credit for trying to help her.

east

I don't think anyone here should give medical opinions, advices, to a woman who is clearly unwell.

Suggestions that someone should be "CUT OFF" when experiencing these symptoms, or possibly have dementia, is patently wrong.  Almost culpable. 

You cannot possibly diagnose someone over the net.  You need to see the person in their real world.

Delusions of medical grandiosity do not help the sufferer one bit. 

I think it is dangerous to do so. 

My advice is to see a doctor more benzo educated. 

And if lucky enough to find such a doctor  I feel sure that advices will be to slow taper.  And definitely not cut by 50%. 

Dee

Dee, it’s been 5 months since my docs forced CT on me, I still cannot find a benzo wise doc.

Medical advice is always suggested. 

I know Sara.  I couldn't find one either. 

Forced CT is different to recommending it, Sara. 

The reason I posted, was because I think it dangerous to suggest someone be CUT OFF from benzo's, particularly as the woman in question was already very unwell.  It is something a lot of doctors do, and to which we protest. 

I hope you are continuing to improve Sara. 

Dee