Anyone on 2 benzos? Trapped. Need advice please

Hello --- anyone on 2 benzos?

 

Please anyone -- need advice -- keep going in circles swapping. i know it's not wise to be on 2 benzos, but got desperate for relief -- Clz + V.

 

need help to taper 1 or other somehow? or go back to all Clz and start again?

 

not sure i'm paradoxical to both C + V now. or they're competing and causing more pain, tension, and weakness.

 

now taking 1.375C + 8V.

 

so sorry haven't been able to make sig yet. very complex issues due to physical probs, ie, legs. Pls see link below.

 

never could split doses, so always took C at night. split doses of C felt worse, too sedated, sometimes rebound spasms.

 

added a bit of V in mid-Oct. if i take V very early like 5am, then relaxed legs for a few hrs.  but then don't sleep and take too much tylenol for achilles heel pain.

 

getting new GP soon. i guess they may make the decision for me.

 

current GP supportive but got me in this mess and just lets me do whatever, as he's moving on soon.

 

had a very kind and helpful welcome w/some advice from Leslie + Megan, thank you so much again. 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=214556.0

 

truly desperate -- many thanks to anyone who may have some experience w/being on 2 benzos -- and has a moment to read my intro + advise in any way?

 

 

many thanks again to Leslie 

 

health and healing to you all

 

please? anyone? please help?

 

new to forum but reading for months -- can't find anybody going/been thru similar.

 

extremely distressed 

 

hoping for any ideas, options, etc - before my GP moves on and the new GP forces me into more mistakes.

 

many thanks again for reading, so grateful for this forum.

 

 

 

Hi chipmunk. I can't personally answer you but I've contacted someone who might be able to help you if he is feeling well enough.  Gilly x

Hi chipmunk-,  I was on clonazepam and alprazolam at the same time a few years ago.  I stopped the clonazepam because I felt the alprazolam was helping me more.  I'm not clear from your post, what the benefits are of each that you're getting.  Can you explain that a little more?  Can you crossover over one to the other.  In other words, if you're on 1.375 clonazepam, do a crossover of just this to the diazepam.  Keep taking the rest of the diazepam you already take the same way.  I'm not experienced in this area though so may be missing something.  Hopefully others can chime in with some more thoughts.

I think you need to get on one benzo that is the, or a, slower one. (I tapered from librium)

 

Being stuck on two sounds like you are evaluating your states of mind in 2 ways and comparing them all the time. It sounds very confusing. If you cross to a different benzo you may not have this problem. 

 

It sounds like you may be attached to one or the other for some purpose, like bed time, but it will be much better to be on one drug. Tapering is hard and you will benefit from making it simpler, so you can tend to your other issues.

Were you are trying to cross over from Clonazepam to Valium and somehow found out that it is way harder than it seemed? Is that the case? I'd dealt with something similar, trying to switch from Ativan to Valium and not being able to do it fully.

 

It sounds to me that you are desperate to get off of Clonazepam? Is that true or not?

Thanks so much Gilly, drad dog and seltzerer [+ new reply, just got, thanks] for your very kind and helpful advice 

 

sorry to be confusing. put details in my intro, as linked in this thread, sorry so long + complex. hard to make sig as yet.

 

so will try to summarize here. apologies again --- so long + complex. please bear with me 

 

c/t Baclofen Aug 2016 - caused twisted hip. dx w/Fibro. put on other benzos/z-drugs for a few wks....

 

then Oct 2016 put on .75mcg C - but C seemed to lock up hip problem in R leg. but stayed on it b/c had to move overseas. seemed to stabilize.

 

Physio all last year almost fixed hip 1 yr ago.

 

ironically, 1 yr ago, began to reach tolerance [anxiety] to my original dose of .75mcg C.

 

R leg sx emerged ; nerve pain in foot, tried orthotics. made worse. lost ability to walk properly, got debilitated. then Achilles heel pain in R leg pushed me over the edge.

 

mid-July, new GP says you're in tolerance and upped me to 1mg. then next week decided V would be better for me..... did direct switch following week.... lasted 4 days - could not sleep, got 10 V - maybe too low. but legs very relaxed.

 

Aug 2016 - back to 1mg C... after 2 wks, tension in hip/leg increased. so GP upped me to 1.5mg C.... same thing again after 2 wks - more tension the more i tried to walk. became housebound and very weak.

 

Sep 2018 - got fed up and started Ashton based on 1.5C. GP supported for 25 days. 3rd stage c/o -- then GP said STOP Ashton. NO more V. making you too weak and bad for Fibro, etc.

 

Oct 2018 - back to 1.5C. lasted 2-3 wks, then hit w/d sx. upped to 1.65, which was equivalent of Ashton for Sep.  but tension even worse. lasted 1 wk.

 

new Psych came to visit - said go up more. went to 1.75 for 1 night. even worse tension! called GP and asked to replace that .25mgC  w/ 5V and he agreed.

 

by this time extremely debilitated. even w/ 5V for several weeks, the more i tried to walk, the more tense my legs would get. and weaker.

 

but i could sleep, most nights, hence staying at night only dose.

 

feet got too swollen for shoes had been wearing day/night for 7 months due to hip. ankles and knees frozen, hugely swollen too. legs weaker. all sx being on 2 benzos i guess?

 

mid-Nov - so now have to wear old flat slippers, have worn for years. but now leg muscles have shortened due to benzo tension and dumb shoes for 7 months.

 

spent the past month trying to stabilize at 1.5 C and adding a bit of V, trying day/night, trying to relax legs just enough to walk. felt guilty about the V, so tried several times to swap out .125 for an extra 3 V, to be able to walk.

 

6 nights at 1.375C + 8V. last night probs started. pain after dose, waking at 4am.

 

bottom line - not allowed to do Ashton or more V.

 

Clz seems paradoxical, ie, tension increases w/dose. otherwise would just go back to 1.75-ish and taper.

 

had hoped to try to taper off fixed rate of 8V, but seems C+V combined are making tension + sx worse?  potentiating each other's relaxing properties?

 

feel trapped and hate these 2 benzos - is there another benzo option?

 

will ask about librium, but not sure GP will agree.

 

desperate to be able to walk a few minutes, get to loo, shower, etc. and desperate to taper w/out increasing tension - biggest fear = achilles.

 

many thanks to you all for trying to understand - esp. if you read this far, or my intro. so sorry so complex and maybe TMI. 

 

you're all so kind for trying to help. much love and healing to you all.

Sorry for all your troubles, chipmunk. Personally, I'd hold for a little longer if it were me. That was a lot of changes in doses and benzos and your nervous system needs to stabilize.

 

You said your doctor will no longer support Ashton and prescribe valium. Obviously, if you are running out of valium, the logical thing would be to either taper valium off or replace the valium dose with the equivalent clonazepam dose. If you are not running out of valium anytime soon, you may want to hold for a while longer and get a bit more stability without switching doese/benzos/strengths all that much.

 

Also, if you do have enough valium to taper, it may be wiser to do a slow taper off of valium before changing your clonazepam dose or going up with it. Clonazepam is a very powerful benzodiazepine and thee have been people here who have increased their clonazepam dose further in hopes of stabilizing and have bitterly regretted that because coming off became much harder from the increased dose.

 

Also, if you don't mind me asking. What happened with baclofen? Was it no longer treating your condition and making it harder to walk or was it something else? I noticed that cold turkey of it caused you many problems, but was wondering if baclofen itself was causing you a lot of problems.

 

thanks so much LorazepamFree for your kind, helpful + experienced advice. 

 

so relieved to find another buddy who is in similar boat, but so sorry for your troubles w/it all too. 

 

sorry if my answer is so long, trying to provide as much info for your helpful advice. 

 

never took any drugs like these before. Robaxin once for SI ligament in past floored me and could not tolerate.

 

Baclofen -

 

didn't know what Bac was. needed to sleep due to various probs happened all at once -- lumbar spasms due to disc probs, torn tendons in L shoulder and L hip flexor, etc.  just out of the blue - but lots of stress, deconditioned, and trying to do physio.

 

it helped for a few weeks, then became tolerant. din't know.

 

i believe the Baclofen c/t -- forced by GP -- did damage. lots of full-body seizing up, lasting 12 hours until i took double the dose just to be able to go to bed.

 

the second time i seized up was at the ER/AE, when after i reinstated the Bac to taper, and the ER Doc gave me Ativan instead - 1st benzo.... also, tramadol.

 

i was so seized up in the chair, i couldn't move a muscle. i was the last patient there and the hospital gave me these drugs just to get me to leave. all i needed was a dose of Baclofen so could continue taper, but ER messed it up.

 

i was on 5mg Bac for 2 months. never upped the dose.  began to feel w/d in my R hip -- like ropes tightening, twisting, spasms, each night.

R leg was bearing more weight due to L leg injuries.

 

Bac also melted my muscles. but could walk a bit. took me all 2017 just to try to rebuild less than 50% function and climb a flight of stairs. [while on Clz]

 

already had knee probs since 2013 [hypermobile + 'kneeling' chair abuse due to SI joint], but 50% functional prior.

 

 

Ativan -

 

i wish my then-GP let me stay on Ativan - which she let me take for a bit after 2 failed Baclofen reinstatements / tapers [1 wk each i think].

 

not allowed to take Ativan daily anymore - began to have i/d w/d -- bad anxiety.  hence the Zopiclone [paradoxical nightmare - had to stop].  kept going back to Ativan.

 

curious - never recall any muscular issues during Ativan w/d - during those weeks post-Bac...

 

 

Clz -

 

i hate C - felt instant joint/muscular pain after 1st dose. but my GP insisted b/c longer lasting.

 

i think that C has maintained or worsened this damage done by Baclofen c/t, to Gaba B, and/or other receptors, maybe?

 

You are exactly right.  Bitterly regret agreeing to upping Clz via GP - when he said i was in tolerance w/d!

 

And then on my own - after booted from Ashton by 10% - wish i'd just stuck it out at 1.5C . So Much Worse Now.

 

 

Ashton -

 

Ashton for 25 days, ie, 2 wk c/o stages, wish i did it faster tbh. it was hard, but i'm not sure it needed to be. i took 2 mg extra 1st night b/c i felt burning pain. but then was OK for a few days w/1mg extra, ie, 6V instead of 5V, at night.

 

then my GP  told me to up the V 2mg a couple times over the next few afternoons -- that day, after the 1st dose of 2mg, within hours i had severe spasms in hips/ legs. it was odd timing.

 

so i only added an extra 2mg at night for the rest of the month.

 

but -- dropped from 1.75C equiv. in 1st 3-4 days to 1.65 equiv. or ~ 33V i think.  then had multiple hip/leg spasms over the next 2 days, presumably from the drop in dose -- not sure?

 

or -- b/c so much higher than my highest dose of 1.5mg [double my original dose]. this is where it seems paradoxical, or related to Baclofen damage maybe?

 

stage 2 c/o caused L leg to tense up more. 

stage 3 was .75mcg + 18V - only lasted 2 days before GP stopped me.

 

 

Paradoxical?

 

for Eg - i took my 1st ever rescue dose of Clz  [for insomnia due to heel pain] in mid-July before being properly prescribed a full updose to 1mg - it gave me rebound spasms hours later.

 

same thing happened again a few wks later, but i took the V as rescue for insomnia instead - fearing the C -- but within an hour had spasms. actually took charcoal tablet hoping to detox that rescue dose!

 

 

Thank you -

 

thank you for taking the time and consideration to advise some options, so very much appreciated. 

 

depends on my new GP. have enough V for ~ 2 wks. my current GP leaves in Jan 2019.  he wants to pass me to new GP asap. not sure how new GP will take charge or let me carry on. 

 

desperate to stabilize - seemed OK in mid-Oct when i did the 1st V swap. maybe ankle/knee swelling and weaker legs.  but able to sleep, and stretch legs a bit early morning but then got tenser as the day wore on. walking has been limited to 10-20min max every hr, since mid-July when 1st updosed. 

 

indeed, so many changes, so destabilized. but not sure will ever stabilize now. such a high dose, on 2 benzos -- terrified.

 

 

1. tho i feel C is paradoxical, ie, causing tension - afraid to taper, b/c typical w/d will be tension!

 

2. also afraid to taper V - b/c same - muscle relaxer w/d will be tension!

 

3. but also - anxious to start micro tapering C now in case cut off from V in next 2 wks -- in case new GP makes me go back all C -- want to be at lower dose?

 

4. or, your advice to taper V, so as to maintain stable dose of C?

 

5. so ultimately you feel holding is the best solution?

 

6. rather than try to taper C while holding V?

 

 

stuck! literally cannot move forward. each step is literally agony now.

 

sorry so confused....  

 

 

 

Your Sig-

 

I checked your sig - you are very low, so very lucky.

 

May I ask - how did/do you do it? tapering both? are you stable?

 

Do/did you suffer double sx + w/d, from being on both benzos?

 

how did /do you manage to be on both? do you take separately, ie, not all 1 dose?

 

maybe you're lucky and your combo does not conflict?

 

 

hate being on these 2 benzos - not sure what's doing what?  both making things worse?  2x brain fog, pain, weakness, tension [as both benzos wear off].

 

thought some V would help me off C, but not working anymore, or at this dose....

 

my GP told me to go to 10V + 1.5C, but i thought was too much + afraid of worse sx.

 

sincere apologies for rambling, repeating, overwhelming, TMI. 

 

i hope you're coping OK and so thankful for your kind advice + support. even if what you've already said is all you can say for now, so very grateful.

 

 

One thing is it might be good to go to PT and get an exercise practice. It would benefit in many ways: distraction, fitness, and preparing you for life after benzos and after being compomised for a long time. Every exercise done reduces pain on the other end of this thing we are in, and makes virtuous cycles to be involved in to replace the vicious cycles we have all been in. No worries if you can't imagine it right now. You have a lot of stuff going on. But I think the way out of this will have some of this in it.

thank you so much Drad 

 

sorry i missed your kind + helpful reply, will BRB, asap. 

 

peace + healing to you