Coming off keto- OUCH

So I have been on keto for about 4.5 months. This summer I had a setback from rescue doses- stupid i know. Anyway keto was a massive help for the acute symptoms I was feeling especially anxiety and tinnitus. After 4 months I noticed sleep problems getting worse and severe adrenal fatigue setting in. I had to get off the diet as I believe it was no longer helping but rather causing problems. So I started eating carbs. My sleep improved immediately and so did my overall mood. But after a few days I am noticing massive rushes of anxiety and shakiness after eating. It lasts about 1-2 hours. I am still eating gluten free sugar free and dairy free. So my question is what is this? I cannot go back to low carb because of my adrenal problems but I cannot continue with these rushes after eating. Is this temporary? Something funky with blood sugar and my body adjusting to carbs again?

From my reading and n=1 so far,carbs must be present to drive tryptophan across the blood brain barrier.I'm zero carb (animal products & water) to stop out of control cravings but do take carbs in evening to work with tryptophan supplementation before bedtime.

 

Article on this phenomenon:

 

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/04/06/foods-that-increase-serotonin-tryptophan-carbohydrates/

 

Soup

Thank you! That’s a good idea. Eating carbs at night to help with sleep. But maybe avoiding during the day. The tryptophan could also explain why my mood is better but I’m also experiencing anxiety and shakiness. My brain is not used to the tryptophan?

You went from keto diet that your body adapted to fat for fuel,& lower insulin back to carbs as fuel,higher insulin....so there will be janky body responses until adaption.

 

Soup

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! How long until adaptation? It’s been almost a week now

One of the good things about elimination type diets is that they make you very aware of eating habits and how your body reacts to certain foods as you add them back or remove them.

Perhaps add carbs back slowly so that you can gauge reaction (shakiness,anxiety) type of carbs (high glycemic,slow release) timing of carbs ......it may be that for now,some types of foods may not be optimal.You can try them again in the future to see if still a problem or ditch them forever.

 

Soup

 

 

Yea might need to slow down in carbs and reintroduce them one by one to see what i tolerate best. I’m still doing gluten free carbs. I told my friend when i first started eating them again I felt like i was taking anti depressants. There was an immediate increase in my mood and sense of well being which I’m assuming is from the tryptophan and seratonin. It was and is quite strong. Even causing me to be anxious at times. (Similarly to how i feel when trying SSRI medications)I’m sure my body will adjust with time. I was just quite surprised at how noticeable the changes were when transitioning back to carbs!

Food is medicine.

 

Our guts (gastrointestinal system) are considered the second brains.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-second-brain/

 

https://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/know-serotonin-interview-gut-brain-axis-researcher-elaine-hsiao/

This article is the best description of similarities between enteric nervous system (gut) and central n.s.

 

"Just recently scientists have discovered that certain bacteria have the special ability to generate that “feel good” mood.

Some beneficial bacteria that have taken up residence in the gut will actually increase GABA receptors in the brain. When there are more GABA receptors in the brain, more GABA is being put to good use. This is a good thing, especially since a decrease in GABA receptors has been associated with mood disorders, like chronic depression.

 

To give you a better idea what GABA receptors do in the body, consider substances like:

 

Alcohol

Benzodiazepines

Barbiturates

What do alcohol, benzodiazepines, and barbiturates have in common? They all stimulate the GABA receptors. Which, according to scientists, is exactly what certain beneficial bacteria do."

 

 

https://bodyecology.com/articles/your-gut-can-influence-how-you-feel-it-all-starts-with-serotonin

I recently started a ketogenic diet for the second time. The first time I had an issue with coca tea and I quit the diet after a few weeks. After quitting coca tea my serotonin levels were very low. I've been struggling with sleep issues recently as well and understand that this has to do with insulin resistance and low levels of serotonin and dopamine.

 

How were your macros at 4.5 months and carb intake especially?

 

Was watching a video on YouTube with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, a biochemist and she went into slight depth about endotoxin, which is something that binds to LDL cholesterol if you have gut issues, caused by eating refined foods and carbs basically, but possibly from other ways too which she didn't mention. Once it binds to LDL it circulates in the body causing heart disease and possibly other problems. I'll post a link if I can find this later.

 

So, I'm on a mission to heal my gut. My stool looks normal in color but I notice a thin white film that floats to the top that doesn't look thick or like mucus. It may be steatorrhea. Or it can be from eating too many whole nuts and too much fat. Has anyone on the keto diet notice this thin white film with little bubbles in it that kind of looks like thin spit without any mucus in it??

 

Recently I started using BPC-157 and some other peptides again. But BPC-157 interests me especially for its ability to heal the gut. I have some appointments lined up at the end of the month with a neurologist and an infectious disease doctor. I'm going to try to get as healthy as possible to avoid further calamity, since my WD symptoms cross over with many neurological degenerative and infectious diseases when I'm on a high carb diet.

 

Since on keto my serotonin levels are lowish and very low if I don't sleep well. I have better mental clarity overall though and feel better, but I'm only on day 8 and from what I understand it takes 2 weeks to get over the keto flu and up to 3-4 weeks to become fat adapted. Your macros need to be on point.

I recently ate more food and probably too much protein to combat the insomnia which crippled me the first week. Protein will convert to glucose via gluconeogenisis if you consume too much btw and cause your insulin levels to increase.

 

As far as snacks. A good hack to feel better on the keto diet is to eat some cocoa nibs. PEA boosts and the modest amount of carbs shuttle in serotonin and catecholamines. You'll want to eat macadamia nuts to get omega 7 fatty acids if you are on this diet every day according to Thomas DeLaure. Watch his YouTube videos. The guy is an internet hustler and maybe a douche but he knows his stuff and is down with science. So watch his videos if you want learn more.

 

 

You may be able to eat a 1/4 cup of blackberries on keto. So, if you were to time this in the evening it may help dramatically to increase serotonin and improve your insomnia. I may try when necessary

Evil,

 

I’ve just started Keto to try to get rid of constant hunger and sugar/carb cravings but not sure it will work as am getting no feedback from stomach to brain at all. No feeling of fullness however much I eat. It is as if my brain thinks there is never any food in my body and thinks it is starving.

 

Did your cravings go away? How long did it take.

 

A few years ago I went low carb Paleo to kick start weight loss and it was easy this is something else.

 

I am not sure this will work for me because I think my body is just not producing Leptin or the signals are not able to travel along the vagus nerve.

 

 

Mammoth

 

First day of Keto my poo was fatty and had the white film so I think it is theexcretion of excess fat. I've had to cut back on fat and trying to ease in more slowly.

 

Still got the white film though.

 

I am finding it difficult to get enough calories without the extra fat.

 

 

 

 

Ajusta, I think it's a good idea to try this ketogenic diet but you need to give it a month before you consider it's not for you or the wrong diet because I believe almost everyone can do this if they transition correctly. I cold turkey'd carbs this time because I have no more patience for what is happening to my body. I'm tired of my father telling me I'm not getting better everytime I lower my meds, when I lose verbal communication skills and have neurological symptoms that make it impossible to function, tired of struggling with mental health problems and constantly feeling hungry eating all these carbs and whatever else. I went to this place called the Cheese Cake Factory 9 days ago with my friend who likes to eat alot and it broke me. Been doing keto ever since, put my taper on hold but I am coming off memantine. I hope I won't need it anymore if I can thrive on keto.

 

I would try the slow carb diet first Ajusta. Only for a few weeks then switch to strict keto. You can use yams and sweet potatoes to help you taper off carbs. Maybe have a few blackberries if you get too many carb wd symptoms. Depending on how bad your insulin resistance is the harder this will be.

I know they aten’t accurate but I checked with a test strip today and it indicates I am in ketosis.

 

So maybe I don’t need a huge amount of fat for that.

 

I am so worried that the constant hunger, loss of adipose tissue or collagen and muscle tightness means I have something horrible like lypodystrophy.

 

The hunger is off the charts. It is not a feeling of hunger in stomach because have lost allinternal sensation. It causes incredible tension.

 

I might eat some bad carb tonight to check what that does to the Keto strip - I need to know there is not something else going on causing it even when I eat carbs which is making my brain feel like my body is constantly in starvation which is what it feels like. It creates terrible panic.

I notice that craving for carbs decreases after a few days doing the ketogenic diet. You need to watch your macros and get that right. So, 70% of your calories need to come from fat. Try to eat 20g of net carbs or less to do this correctly. Protein intake needs to be low-moderate. The cravings should improve only when you enter ketosis though. I'm starting to eat sardines and broccoli micro greens for a morning meals. I want to look into some organ meat. Ajusta if you do this, start eating sardines with something green. It quality protein and try to keep it low. Macadamia nuts and pecans. avocados, broccoli sprouts. Vegetables and beef or chicken broth combined with whatever type of meat you want to prepare. I'm just putting every thing in a crock pot and its easy enough.

I am concerned about eating too much avocado, tinned fish etc because of potentially high glutamate levels.

 

Also I have altered sense of taste and mouth feel - often food tastes rotten.

 

As I said I did a low carb but not Keto diet for years and was never hungry until WD.

 

I lost 112lbs and was happy with my weight and had gradually introduced some extra carb prior to WD and I was still full after eating a small meal..

 

Since WD I could literally eat 20 plates of food and still want more because I quite literally have NO sensation of having eaten either in terms of a feeling of distension in my stomach or as any kind of signal to my brain that I have eaten.

 

It really is as if my brain thinks I am starving. It has been like that all day everyday for a year regardless of how much or what I have eaten.

 

This is 4th day and I am in Ketosis. Used a test strip. Got my BF to do one as well so know they are working. Mine shows dark purple and vein without exactly the right proportions.

 

Having mackerel with kale, red onion and tomatoes tonight.

 

Will have more Kale with a few blueberries before bed in the hope it will help with sleep which is worse the 2 times I have tried this is last few weeks.

 

I looked up cocoa nibs - they are high in caffiene... although I do wonder if there is something g in chocolate my body craves because chocolate biscuits are the only thing that calm the foo/starvation panic a bit.

 

 

If you’re doing the keto diet your going to lean towards GABA instead of glutamate. I’ve been tapering off memantine with ease so I would not worry about eating avocados or tinned fish raising glutamate levels. It’s almost like we have type 3 diabetes of the brain. They say that about Alzheimer’s. The brain cannot utilize glucose as fuel as well and the brain literally starves and shrivels.

The intense sugar compulsion for me is very like that which occurs in some forms of dementia where people eat whole bowls of sugar. That is exactly what it feels like. I go into a panic and am kind of dissociated watching myself stuff a whole packet of chocolate biscuits in my mouth.

Ajusta,

 

I'm exactly like what you have described in sugar compulsion.Nothing stopped this for me except eating zero carb (carnivore) ....and I tried every possible combination,diet,etc. Even a tiny taste of sweet or an iota of too much carb starts an avalanche of intense cravings,very bizarre! Good luck to you in discovering what will halt it for you.

 

Soup

 

 

 

Mamoot,

 

I think you are right in pinpointing type 3 diabetes involving the brain.

 

Soup

This is really interesting. I've got this problem too, just a bit more extreme (reaction to carbs lasts longer and is pretty severe). If anyone else has any good advice, I'm all ears. I'd love to be able to eat fruits and vegetables again.

Hi guys

Just an update. I decided to continue eating carbs the same way I have been for a week to see if my body will stabilize and stop the anxiety and shakiness. I am mostly eating gluten free oats, brown rice and potatoes. Although I’m trying to add in fruit slowly. I feel like each day i get better and it gets easier. I have to say I really like eating carbs lol. My mood is much much better. Sleep is still hit or miss. But better than it was when I was in full on keto. Anxiety is still up. But the shakiness and strange sensations I have been having after eating are Improving.

One interesting thing is I never felt depressed when I was in keto- but coming off of it made me realize I must have been low on tryptophan and seratonin.

Keto definitely served its purpose for me. It was a big help early on. But I think I need carbs for the next stage of healing. I’ll come back and update again soon.

Thanks for all the good info and feedback  you guys are providing!

 

This is great news,evio! Thank you for starting the topic,it is helping folks drill down into their diet concerns and hopefully we can discover solutions.

 

 

Soup

Hi guys

Just an update. I decided to continue eating carbs the same way I have been for a week to see if my body will stabilize and stop the anxiety and shakiness. I am mostly eating gluten free oats, brown rice and potatoes. Although I’m trying to add in fruit slowly. I feel like each day i get better and it gets easier. I have to say I really like eating carbs lol. My mood is much much better. Sleep is still hit or miss. But better than it was when I was in full on keto. Anxiety is still up. But the shakiness and strange sensations I have been having after eating are Improving.

One interesting thing is I never felt depressed when I was in keto- but coming off of it made me realize I must have been low on tryptophan and seratonin.

Keto definitely served its purpose for me. It was a big help early on. But I think I need carbs for the next stage of healing. I’ll come back and update again soon.

Thanks for all the good info and feedback  you guys are providing!

 

Thanks for starting this topic. I’m learning a lot from reading through this!

Yes I like this label of Type 3 diabetes of the brain and can totally relate to the sugar cravings.  We all know that sugar is bad for you... but I’d be interested in knowing if the reason we are craving it has to do with the brain needing more glucose for repair.... just wondering.  Good stuff here!