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A few questions to prepare myself


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Hi everyone, I've been tapering over the past year or so and fairly quickly the past few months. I've been lucky and now that I'm at .125 of klonopin I am still sleeping pretty well. However a few weeks after my last taper I started waking early around 5am? Is this how insomnia starts? Did this happen tobyou and then things got worse? I am hoping I'll continue to get at least 5 hours a night but bracing myself as I go down in dose.

 

Also, I've heard conflicting things. Some people say you should take things (natural or Benadryl) to sleep and others say no you should let your body work it out. What has been your experience? Of course after this I shy away from taking anything ever again but also sleep is important and I work. I don't think I'd do a sleep aid but maybe Benadryl. If anything.

 

Also I'm curious if you feel anxiety is the cause of insomnia or simply your body doesn't know how to sleep or both? I ask because my anxiety is low but I have other symptoms. Hoping if anxiety continues to stay at bay I will be able to sleep.

 

I've started exercising more and today woke at 5:30 instead of 5. Maybe that is helping. Did exercise help you? Did increasing duration of exercise help? I am also reducing coffee intake which I only drink very early in the morning anyway.

 

I'm just plain scared about my next taper and if I'll be able to sleep. When I told my last doc I was tapering off he told me "you'll never be able to sleep again without it." I want to prove him wrong. And I want to continue to sleep. But hey, I'm prepared for whatever happens. I think. Thanks for any feedback or advice.

 

 

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HI Mountaintop1,

 

There are plenty of posts to read about here on what you are asking - especially from TheWay2. Just use the search function. Insomnia seems inevitable but acceptance will help.

 

 

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5 hours is really good at this point.  I had months and months of little or no sleep.  Not trying to scare you or others, but that is the reality of lots of folks after they finish their taper or jump CT.

 

After I jumped CT I think I stayed awake for 4 or 5 days straight?  I can't remember now, but I know it was at least 3 or 4 days with no perceived sleep.

Since I did a cold turkey, it hit right away. 

 

Some have healed very well during their taper.  I think Chessplayer got his sleep back during his taper?

 

Sometimes sleep worsens as you near the end of your taper and then right after? 

 

Withdrawal and insomnia are UNIQUE to you.  It will play out for you how it plays out and no one knows what that will be or how long it will last.

 

I would not take anything with alcohol in it as that can act on Gaba.  Right now your sleep switch is temporarily broken.  But it WILL repair itself over time.

 

Your Gaba receptors are not working correctly.  Gaba is what makes you relaxed and calm...so you can sleep.  Glutamate rules the day and night for most after they are off of the Benzos.  Glutamate is what makes you active and alert - fight or flight.

 

Until these balance out again, sleep could be off and other symptoms could ramp up.  Withdrawal and recovery are nonlinear and very UP and DOWN for some time for most.  A real roller coaster ride.  Expect that.  Expect the unexpected.  Acceptance and distraction are key to getting through recovery.

 

I ended up not taking anything for sleep as nothing Rx, OTC or natural worked for me for more than a day or two.  It sucked at the time, but I am glad it worked out that way as I got my sleep back naturally without taking anything.  Now I get 6-8 pretty much every night.  Last night I got 7 hours.

 

Lack of sleep can create a sleep anxiety cycle that is hard to break.  It happened to me and others.  But it does end too.

 

Most doctors, in my opinion, are clueless when it comes to Benzos and withdrawal.  Almost all of them won't acknowledge withdrawal or even if they do, they say it only lasts 2 or 3 weeks max. 

 

People are not sleeping because of lack of K-pin in their body.  Benzos are designed for 2-4 weeks max, so not sure why a doctor would tell you that you won't sleep without K-pin. 

 

You'll get your sleep back.  Lots and lots of people on this forum did. 

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I'm on a klonopin taper where my pattern is the first night or two it takes me an hour to fall asleep but I get 6 hours of sleep, and the third night it's back to a normal 7 hours.  I expect this will continue as it's been a strong pattern.  Now, I am a short term user, only on my full dose for a week of klonopin (transfer from 2 week Xanax bleh), and been on my taper since October.

 

My advice is to reduce your anxiety.  I tell myself I survived bad nights with little sleep, way worse than anything before I got on these drugs.  Not every will have the terrible experience

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5 hours is really good at this point.  I had months and months of little or no sleep.  Not trying to scare you or others, but that is the reality of lots of folks after they finish their taper or jump CT.

 

After I jumped CT I think I stayed awake for 4 or 5 days straight?  I can't remember now, but I know it was at least 3 or 4 days with no perceived sleep.

Since I did a cold turkey, it hit right away. 

 

Some have healed very well during their taper.  I think Chessplayer got his sleep back during his taper?

 

Sometimes sleep worsens as you near the end of your taper and then right after? 

 

Withdrawal and insomnia are UNIQUE to you.  It will play out for you how it plays out and no one knows what that will be or how long it will last.

 

I would not take anything with alcohol in it as that can act on Gaba.  Right now your sleep switch is temporarily broken.  But it WILL repair itself over time.

 

Your Gaba receptors are not working correctly.  Gaba is what makes you relaxed and calm...so you can sleep.  Glutamate rules the day and night for most after they are off of the Benzos.  Glutamate is what makes you active and alert - fight or flight.

 

Until these balance out again, sleep could be off and other symptoms could ramp up.  Withdrawal and recovery are nonlinear and very UP and DOWN for some time for most.  A real roller coaster ride.  Expect that.  Expect the unexpected.  Acceptance and distraction are key to getting through recovery.

 

I ended up not taking anything for sleep as nothing Rx, OTC or natural worked for me for more than a day or two.  It sucked at the time, but I am glad it worked out that way as I got my sleep back naturally without taking anything.  Now I get 6-8 pretty much every night.  Last night I got 7 hours.

 

Lack of sleep can create a sleep anxiety cycle that is hard to break.  It happened to me and others.  But it does end too.

 

Most doctors, in my opinion, are clueless when it comes to Benzos and withdrawal.  Almost all of them won't acknowledge withdrawal or even if they do, they say it only lasts 2 or 3 weeks max. 

 

People are not sleeping because of lack of K-pin in their body.  Benzos are designed for 2-4 weeks max, so not sure why a doctor would tell you that you won't sleep without K-pin. 

 

You'll get your sleep back.  Lots and lots of people on this forum did.

 

Thank you thEway2.

 

All of your tips are very helpful. I trust I'll make my way through this one day at a time. I know exactly why the doctor told me I won't sleep. He tried to talk me out of tapering off klonopin after lying and telling me it was safe for a few years. He's a drug pusher with a license. Of course I take responsibility for not researching the med I was taking.  I am determined to be done with it so I will make my way through no matter what. I have been working out everyday hoping this will set my brain back right and not only make my other symptoms less but help me to continue sleeping. Every night I fall asleep I am grateful as I don't know what to expect or how long it will last. But trying not to be anxious either. Acceptance is what's needed you are so right.

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Mountaintop, Just a few more things to add here....

 

- I work too and I have to travel at times for work. I've made it through work days multiple times with minimal sleep (like 0-3 hours) and literally hundreds of times with something closer to 4-5 hours of sleep. It's not fun, but it is do-able. If you are doing other things to take care of your mind and your body, you can "survive" insomnia while still working, living your life, etc.

 

- At one time, I was taking 1MG of Ativan and 12.5MG of Ambien every night. It mostly helped get me to sleep, but I would STILL wake up about 4-4.5 hours in and have a hard time getting back to sleep. So ultimately, even a cocktail as powerful as that really couldn't do the trick (which is probably a good thing in the long run since I would have stayed on them if they worked really well!). I knew that I had to turn to cognitive-behavioral techniques working with a licensed psychologist.

 

- Between therapy, discipline, and other techniques, I successfully reduced my anxiety and got off the Ambien first and then the Ativan. I take zero supplements or other meds for sleep now. I'm in this for the long haul and I don't want to be dependent on ANYTHING for sleep, even if it's a relatively benign non-benzo. Others feel certain supplements or OTC meds work great for them. But my path is to be completely free of such things unless I'm clinically diagnosed with being deficient in something. If you are used to reaching for a Benzo every night before bed, it's only natural to want to replace that ritual with something else. To each his or her own....

 

- All of that being said, I still have insomnia (!). However, as I told my Psych, I'd rather be a drug-free insomniac than a drugged up insomniac! Also, my overall anxiety about it is down significantly and, frankly, that's half the battle for me. Overall I feel better even though I am often still tired and fatigued physically.

 

Overall, attitude is huge. I'm still working on it. If you obsess too much about sleep, it simply will not be helpful. Do whatever you can to take a more carefree or stoic approach to your withdrawal symptoms, as the more you focus on them, the worse they can get!

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

-

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Mountaintop, Just a few more things to add here....

 

- I work too and I have to travel at times for work. I've made it through work days multiple times with minimal sleep (like 0-3 hours) and literally hundreds of times with something closer to 4-5 hours of sleep. It's not fun, but it is do-able. If you are doing other things to take care of your mind and your body, you can "survive" insomnia while still working, living your life, etc.

 

- At one time, I was taking 1MG of Ativan and 12.5MG of Ambien every night. It mostly helped get me to sleep, but I would STILL wake up about 4-4.5 hours in and have a hard time getting back to sleep. So ultimately, even a cocktail as powerful as that really couldn't do the trick (which is probably a good thing in the long run since I would have stayed on them if they worked really well!). I knew that I had to turn to cognitive-behavioral techniques working with a licensed psychologist.

 

- Between therapy, discipline, and other techniques, I successfully reduced my anxiety and got off the Ambien first and then the Ativan. I take zero supplements or other meds for sleep now. I'm in this for the long haul and I don't want to be dependent on ANYTHING for sleep, even if it's a relatively benign non-benzo. Others feel certain supplements or OTC meds work great for them. But my path is to be completely free of such things unless I'm clinically diagnosed with being deficient in something. If you are used to reaching for a Benzo every night before bed, it's only natural to want to replace that ritual with something else. To each his or her own....

 

- All of that being said, I still have insomnia (!). However, as I told my Psych, I'd rather be a drug-free insomniac than a drugged up insomniac! Also, my overall anxiety about it is down significantly and, frankly, that's half the battle for me. Overall I feel better even though I am often still tired and fatigued physically.

 

Overall, attitude is huge. I'm still working on it. If you obsess too much about sleep, it simply will not be helpful. Do whatever you can to take a more carefree or stoic approach to your withdrawal symptoms, as the more you focus on them, the worse they can get!

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

-

 

Thanks so much Lilac001! I love your success story and it gives me hope. And for the pointers. I am hoping a healthy lifestyle and exercise and a positive attitude are key here. I was saying today I'm healthier than I've ever been eating right, no alcohol :(exercise and tons of water... I still fee crappy from poor sleep and orher synptims but at least I know I'm doing all I can. I still drink some coffee in the morning but trying to reduce it. I've realized I cannot go to bed late because I wake between 4 and 5 no matter what and can't get back to sleep and can't nap anymore those naps really helped with fatigue even when I was sleeping well. Anyway, thanks so much for sharing your journey and giving us hope. Keep us updated if you can.

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Mountaintop,

the buddies are correct,  symptoms are individual. what an ignorant thing for your doctor to say to you! as your taper  continues and you heal your sleep will change.  I figured out from my own experience that while ON the lorazepam I slept a full 7 hours.  I call it "white out" sleep.  Pill hit, out I went.

NOW as I'm tapering guess what? i generally get 5-7 hours! the sleep is different, not always great, but I am sleeping. I occasionally dream.  If you're getting 5 or so hours, even broken, let that be okay. 

 

I've seen a number of helpful posts about changing the bedtime routine to be super peaceful and to coax relaxation for sleep.  Some take tea an hour or two before they lay down, some sit in a magnesium salts bath, others tire themselves out a bit, do stretching and then listen to meditative music.  For me, if I wake at 2 or 3 and feel the need for more sleep I head to the couch where I feel safe and cozy.  I've also learned to stop looking at the clock =)  I bet you could find a few things that help your night routine and maybe smooth out your sleep.

 

Your dose is so low now  :thumbsup:  keep going, don't let worry interfere  :smitten:

-PH 🌷

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