Switched to Valium too quickly

I live in daily fear of my life as I have been so debilitated. For so long by a psychiatrist who has almost totally chemically lobotomized me. I will spare you all the details..but the latter is  what I am dealing with

Hello. I am hoping you can help me. I completed a much to rapid taper in 95 days  from 1.5 lorazopam and 30 mg tomazopam. I felt fine all during my taper (liquid compound from  pharmacy) .  I was fine for ten days after my taper and then I got hit with ten days of panic anxiety and intense suicide ideation.  I could not sit down or breathe without hyperventilating. I literally paced for ten days.

I reinstated the lorazopam and it all,went away. I took the lorazopam for four days and asked my dr to switch me over to Valium. He switched me over to ten mg of Valium. It has been two weeks and I still do not feel stable. I break up the .5 Valium  into four doses during day andntake the five at night. I alsomtake 30 mg or mirtazopine at night. It has never done anything fir me but I realize I have tomtaper from this too at a later time.

I was so catonic when I saw my psych that's he wanted me to go on another depressant. I was extremely suicidal. I held out on taking the antidepressant pristiq he recommended until two days ago because I was getting worse and worse. It is say three of pristiq and I am doing much worse . Cannot move"...depression is too mild a word formy mental state.

I realize my situation is very complex but I live in fear of sabotaging my own mortality. If my situation illudes or is too complex you...perhaps you could think of someone else who can help me.

I was a normal person joyfully teaching her grade two class 13 months ago. No history of mental illness or of even taking medication.  My beautiful boy died suddenly and traumatically and I could not sleep for four months...how this all started.

I did receive some advise a few days ago from some very kind members but I waited too long to follow it and I'm embarrassed that I didn't.

 

I live in daily fear of my life as I have been so debilitated. For so long by a psychiatrist who has almost totally chemically lobotomized me. I will spare you all the details..but the latter is  what I am dealing with

Hello. I am hoping you can help me. I completed a much to rapid taper in 95 days  from 1.5 lorazopam and 30 mg tomazopam. I felt fine all during my taper (liquid compound from  pharmacy) .  I was fine for ten days after my taper and then I got hit with ten days of panic anxiety and intense suicide ideation.  I could not sit down or breathe without hyperventilating. I literally paced for ten days.

I reinstated the lorazopam and it all,went away. I took the lorazopam for four days and asked my dr to switch me over to Valium. He switched me over to ten mg of Valium. It has been two weeks and I still do not feel stable. I break up the .5 Valium  into four doses during day andntake the five at night. I alsomtake 30 mg or mirtazopine at night. It has never done anything fir me but I realize I have tomtaper from this too at a later time.

I was so catonic when I saw my psych that's he wanted me to go on another depressant. I was extremely suicidal. I held out on taking the antidepressant pristiq he recommended until two days ago because I was getting worse and worse. It is say three of pristiq and I am doing much worse . Cannot move"...depression is too mild a word formy mental state.

I realize my situation is very complex but I live in fear of sabotaging my own mortality. If my situation illudes or is too complex you...perhaps you could think of someone else who can help me.

I was a normal person joyfully teaching her grade two class 13 months ago. No history of mental illness or of even taking medication.  My beautiful boy died suddenly and traumatically and I could not sleep for four months...how this all started.

I did receive some advise a few days ago from some very kind members but I waited too long to follow it and I'm embarrassed that I didn't.

 

 

Hi there Godhelpme-

 

The reason you are not stabilizing is probably because the doctor did not give you the proper equivalency of Valium to cover the 1.5mg of lorazapam and 30mg of temazapam. The doctor only gave you 10mg of Valium and it should have been more like 30mg Valium.

 

Valium is known to cause depression. Since you are experiencing severe depression, I would suggest either going back on the lorazapam (because you said you felt "stable" when you reinstated) or you could try Librium. What ever you decide to do, make sure you get the proper equivalency if your doctor is open to this.

 

All of the symptoms you describe are common. You just need to get on the right benzo at the proper dose. Once you feel more stable, do a symptom based taper  When you are ready post over on the General taper board to get help planning your taper ok. Hang in there....

 

Please keep us updated on your progress...we are here to help you through this 

Thank you ...I am/was perplexed though because I had worked so hard at tapering for all of those days down to nothing...considering the time lapse what amount of lorazopam would you suggest...my dr knows nothing. 

Again..others have been kind in earlier advice that I did not heed.

godhelpme

 

Bella is right. Doctor went too fast and did not give you enough Valium for the cross-over either.

 

What was the last dose of Ativan that you were taking when you felt stable, can you look it up or ask your doctor to check his records?

 

You might need just that amount or a little more 'and' don't let the doctor switch you cold turkey back to Ativan, that's too fast--you'd end up going through Valium withdrawals which have a way of sneaking up on you because of the long half-life.

 

If you can find a psychologist who knows your doctor, one who is familiar with benzo-dependence and would help talk to your doctor, that would be good.

 

I mention this last part because I have a counselor who has been in the community health field for over 30 years and she said she is willing to talk to my gp this coming spring when he pushes me to cut the diazepam, especially too quickly.

 

Let's see what Bella thinks, too.

 

We help each other but in the end you'll have to decide.

 

And if you could keep a simple record with the date, dosing and withdrawal symptoms that would help you spot a mistake and let your doctor know about it.

Thank you ...I am/was perplexed though because I had worked so hard at tapering for all of those days down to nothing...considering the time lapse what amount of lorazopam would you suggest...my dr knows nothing. 

Again..others have been kind in earlier advice that I did not heed.

 

I cannot off hand remember your exact history...could you please write this down in your signature for us so that we can respond appropriately?

 

Click on this link & type in your history:

 

CLICK HERE ----> To Create a Signature <---- CLICK HERE and fill out your info in the box next to where is says "signature"

Ok..I made a signature

Thank you ...I am/was perplexed though because I had worked so hard at tapering for all of those days down to nothing...considering the time lapse what amount of lorazopam would you suggest...my dr knows nothing. 

Again..others have been kind in earlier advice that I did not heed.

 

When you reinstated the 1.5mg of lorazepam and felt "stable" you were totally off the temazapam at this point?

 

If this is the case, I would go back up to your original dose of 1.5mg of lorazapam. If this is not adequate you may have to add more lorazepam due to the 30mg of temazpam you were originally taking. I would substitute the Valium with the lorazapam over a two or three week period.

 

 

Ok..I made a signature

 

Hey, nice job!!!...You are gonna be an expert before you know it! 

I was down to .02 ml in liquid tomazopam that I had been hanging onto for weeks and weeks.

Please excuse my naivete, but how would I switch over in the course of three weeks...alternate dosages? Sorry..so lost.

I was down to .02 ml in liquid tomazopam that I had been hanging onto for weeks and weeks.

Please excuse my naivete, but how would I switch over in the course of three weeks...alternate dosages? Sorry..so lost.

 

Here is how I would do the cross if I were in your shoes:

 

Click image

 

Hi Godhelpme

 

I'm really sorry for what led you to this rough benzo encounter. Wherever he might be now, your boy would love to see you in better health and happy. Like many buddies in here you will come out healed from this story. Time will give you relief.

 

Taper off 1.5 mg of Lorazepam in 95 days is about 15% reduction every 14 days. It is at the fast end in the general recommendations to reduce between 5-10% every 10-14 days to minimize withdrawal symptoms. But the way you cut also plays a role in the symptoms. What was your taper method? Tablet splitting? Direct taper? Liquid Taper? Micro taper or Cut & Hold? The way you felt no symptoms during the 95 days taper time made me think that the cut although considered as fast for some buddies did actually suit your body. The fact that 10 days after the last dose you had a big wave has been commonly experienced by many buddies and is known as Acute Phase and that would settle down with time with no special action required.

 

You haven't mentioned too much about Temazepam 30 mg. How long have you been taking it? How did you taper it? It is a benzo like others and would require an appropriate taper.

 

The decisive turn took place when hit by rough symptoms you decided to reinstate to 1.5 mg of Lorazepam quickly followed 4 days later by the switch to 10 mg Diazepam. During this 95 + 10 days, by tapering you have gradually driven your CNS to adjust to the new conditions of less-benzo. When you took Lorazepam + Temazepam for the first times, your CNS learns that there is something new to deal with. So it changes its equilibrium to adapt itself to accommodate the new comers. During this process, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to get a biochemical and functional balance. A complex physiologic remodeling takes place. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. This process requires lot of time.

 

When you stop taking these drugs, your brain has so far modeled itself so that it works in the presence of the drugs. Now it can't work properly without the drugs that have become part of its chemistry and structure. When the drugs are removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. It's a matter of having to grow a new brain. This growing-a-new-brain requires a lot of time. Your CNS was in the middle of that process when you interfered by adding back your initial dose of 1.5 mg Lorazepam. What you might have been unaware of is that your CNS is NO LONGER the one of 95 + 10 days ago. It has LONG SHIFTED SINCE following your taper. What has been 'good' 95 + 10 days ago now becomes an overdose as you CNS has managed to live with much less meanwhile.

 

4 days after reinstatement of Lorazepam that is in itself a blow to your CNS, 10 mg of Valium has been introduced to replace Lorazepam. Regardless of the reasons behind that decision, that is definitely a KO blow to the already suffering CNS. The reasons are multiple:

- Over sensitized CNS following the taper and reinstatement

- Sudden disruption of Lorazepam

- Inadequate equivalent dose of Valium (10 mg instead of 15 mg) resulting in a 30% cut.

- You have no idea if Valium is tolerated by your body. Actually many buddies jus can't bear Valium while they have no problems with other benzos. It might be due to the benzo itself or the various excipients included in the tablet.

 

When those changes, tapers/up-doses/cuts/new drug, occurred too fast then there's not a lot of time for actually re-balancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to catch up the changes. Your CNS in its ever-evolving activities to recover itself is known to create unsettling physical, emotional, cognitive and mental problems. Take those symptoms as a distress shout for help from your CNS begging you to let it work in peace to heal from injuries inflicted.

 

As for 30 mg of Mirtazapine, the no effect you reported matches a number of posts I happened to read. For some buddies it may work for a few days before its effects ceased leaving them with another AD to taper. Where are you with it now? Could you tell when you first took it? Perhaps we should try to taper it first when you feel better? Please know that when you go down with doses (7-10 mg), there could be an increase of sedating effects due the properties of the drug: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron/

 

For Pristiq, its interaction with Diazepam does create symptoms:"...Diazepam, Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) https://drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

Using diazePAM together with desvenlafaxine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you..."

When precisely did you start to take it? Do you still take it nowadays or did you stop at first symptoms? Please know that Pristiq is rather difficult to taper due to the protective coating of the tablet, see: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/876-tips-for-tapering-off-pristiq-desvenlafaxine/?page=1

 

What would be useful to highlight is that withdrawal can be tolerable when the user understands the cause and nature of any symptoms that do arise and is therefore not afraid. The psychological aspect in benzo tapering does play a huge role in reducing fear, worries, distress that sometimes push the taperer to run in all directions seeking for miracle remedy (AD/Beta-Blocker/SSRI/Sleep med /Cocaine/supplements/...) resulting in possible adverse interference with the already struggling CNS.

 

Please take some time to answer the above questions.

 

Thank you so very much for your quick reply.  My tapering method fir the lorazepam and temazopam  was a liquid compound by pharmacy. At the end of 95 days I had .02 ml of temazopam left that I had been in for weeks so I jumped off. I could just kick myself now for not waiting out those days of the acute phase. I was going for acupuncture to help, bu it the end it didn't seem to make much if a difference. I'm so disappointed in myself I gave in. I probably would have had just another few days of intense withdrawal.

The mertazepine I was put on on feb at 15 mg and it was increased to 30 in May. I have never noticed any affect from it.

My psychiatrist who I have no trust in at all put me on pristique because I had such intense unabating thoughts of suicide, stronger in those  ten day during that acute phase and I started taking taking it eight days ago.  Scared to death now about pristique after reading that link. I was on Effexor for five months  this and I remember how horrendous it was to comes offf of.

Today for the first time as I am writing this several hours after arising, strangely, I am not hyperventilating. I can feel a low grade anxiety around my heart...but no heavy breathing or frantic fear that always comes immediately upon awakening. I gave both my fingers crossed.

One strange thing that does seem to happen with some regularity is that around 6-7 pm, my anxiety, death thinking, constant  fear and depression seem to tone down a wee bit.  I am able to focus a bit more. There must be some reason for that.

Thanks again for reply...looking forward to hearing back from you.

PS..I had no prior history of anxiety or mental illness prior do the death of my son.

I am happy to report that I did not have anxiety withdrawal until two hours after awakening. It only lasted two and a half hours.  It returned three hours later for another hour or so. No more the rest of day. Depression and much crying ( I haven't been able to cry for while...numb).

I forgot to mention muscles in upper legs cramping and tight but that became lessened  this pm after several days.

I was taking the Valium quartered over the day, but for last two have taken 2.5 in am and 2.5 around dinner, .5 at bedtime.

I'm quite worried about pristiq.. you are right, it cannot be compounded or even scored. My General mood today overall was better than in a long time.  I had enough energy to get off couch and attempt menial chores. Looking forward to hearing from you as my concern about what to do continues. Regards.

Hi Godhelpme

 

The mertazepine I was put on on feb at 15 mg and it was increased to 30 in May. I have never noticed any affect from it.

Are you still taking 30 mg of Mirtazapine nowadays?

 

Pristiq...I started taking taking it eight days ago

What is your Pristiq current dose? As it has been introduced shortly we might perhaps have a chance to get out of it with limited damages.

 

I am happy to report that I did not have anxiety withdrawal until two hours after awakening. It only lasted two and a half hours.  It returned three hours later for another hour or so. No more the rest of day. Depression and much crying ( I haven't been able to cry for while...numb).

I forgot to mention muscles in upper legs cramping and tight but that became lessened  this pm after several days.

I was taking the Valium quartered over the day, but for last two have taken 2.5 in am and 2.5 around dinner, .5 at bedtime.

I'm quite worried about pristiq.. you are right, it cannot be compounded or even scored. My General mood today overall was better than in a long time.  I had enough energy to get off couch and attempt menial chores. Looking forward to hearing from you as my concern about what to do continues. Regards.

 

Good morning Godhelpme-

 

This is great news! Sounds like the Valium may be starting to work.

 

After a couple of weeks the sedation effects of the Valium should wane & become tolerable.. If you are able to deal with the depression aspects of the Valium, it may be advantageous for you to taper directly from the Valium & nix going back on lorazepam. Give this another week or so to see if it becomes more tolerable.

 

Magnesium citrate helped me with the muscle cramps.

 

Let us know what you decide to do.

 

 

Thank you Jim hawk and Belle Aris

I am on 30 my martizipan at night..

I have been on pristiq for eight days as if today. 50 mg in am.

Im so sorry I started this but I was am in such a dark place.

..creates more unknowns such as..is it the pristique that stoooed my anxiety. My depression is black black....I am so entirely disconnected from life as we know it.  Could the prostiq do this??

My grief is paralyzingly and I feel like I'm breathing underwater.

Thanks you for your responses...I very much look forward to hearing from you. Thank you

please take some time to answer the above questions.

Hi Godhelpme

 

It is known that when someone takes benzo together with antidepressants, the combination creates most of the time unsettling, persistent, hard to taper symptoms. This is due to the unpredictable interaction between different chemicals that can confuse your CNS. Most taper-resistant cases I happened to read have somehow to do with poly-drugged users who took ADs on top of Benzo to counter its adverse side effects or withdrawal effects. Most of the time the chemical cocktail seem to simply add problems instead of resolving them.

 

In your case, what we can perhaps do is:

- As you are just one week into it, try to get off Pristiq quickly. In AD/benzos literature, although it varies for drugs and individuals, 3 weeks under drug are considered as a critical threshold . By continuing further taper might become more difficult due to the advanced settlement of the drug in one's body. I wonder of we cannot reasonably and just in 10-15 days get rid of it (3-5 mg/day)

 

- Valium is known to provide sedative effects. When we need to taper a benzo used together with an AD, it is considered as a precaution to taper benzo at the end in order to have its sedation properties counter and soften down any symptoms deriving from AD taper. So I think the next step would be to taper Mirtazapine. For many people this drug helps to sleep. But while some took it for years and declared it saved their life some others reported that it does nothing after a few days/weeks use.

 

To taper it, I saved an interesting statement from builder: "..When I discontinued, I did a 2 week taper (15mg week 1, 7.5mg week 2, then off)  Zero WD sxs...". It did not mention if it was a daily reduction or a cut&hold but I guess it is not relevant. Knowing that what works for builder might not for others, I let you decide what to do with this piece of information.

 

Apart from Pristiq, one condition is that you must feel ready with symptoms that are manageable BEFORE starting to taper Mirtazapine and Valium. You must be patient and hold amid windows and wages. Most buddies used to hold 3-4 weeks but others had to hold 2-3 months until symptoms start to subside.

 

Hope the last window is the first of many and that you will heal.

 

 

 

The problem with prestige is that you can cut or crush them..25  mg is lowest dose...there is no real way to spget off them..most people switch to Effexor...what a nightmare. I don't know wat to do

Hi Godhelpme

 

In your shoes, I would stop Pristiq RIGHT NOW!

 

People using Pristiq together with Mirtazapine are known to become severely ill. Don't give it one more day to harm you.

 

Hi Godhelpme

 

In your shoes, I would stop Pristiq RIGHT NOW!

 

People using Pristiq together with Mirtazapine are known to become severely ill. Don't give it one more day to harm you.

 

 

Jim Hawk,

 

The above post is prescriptive, and prescriptive posting, which often contains words such as "should" "must" "shouldnt" and other absolutes, is not allowed on this forum.  You can recount your own experiences, that's fine.  This is a peer support forum.  Please do not post prescriptively. 

Hi megan918,

 

I do pay attention to what I write. And when I write down something I DO MEAN IT. As buddie PMed me to ask for my opinion. I just shared what I myself would do if I was in her shoes. I did not ask her, did not impose her, did not prescribe her whatsoever. If it is against the forum rules to share what I would do to myself under certain circumstances then I would be pleased if you can show me where I can find this rule. Thanks.

 

Hi megan918,

 

I do pay attention to what I write. And when I write down something I DO MEAN IT. As buddie PMed me to ask for my opinion. I just shared what I myself would do if I was in her shoes. I did not ask her, did not impose her, did not prescribe her whatsoever. If it is against the forum rules to share what I would do to myself under certain circumstances then I would be pleased if you can show me where I can find this rule. Thanks.

 

 

 

Hi Godhelpme

 

In your shoes, I would stop Pristiq RIGHT NOW!

 

People using Pristiq together with Mirtazapine are known to become severely ill. Don't give it one more day to harm you.

 

 

Jim Hawk,

 

The above post is prescriptive, and prescriptive posting, which often contains words such as "should" "must" "shouldnt" and other absolutes, is not allowed on this forum.  You can recount your own experiences, that's fine.  This is a peer support forum.  Please do not post prescriptively.

 

Hello again Jim,

 

Your post was reported by another moderator, which is why i responded to it.  The part bolded above is the part in question, and imo so is the all caps RIGHT NOW.  Here is a link to Colin's post on what constitutes prescriptive writing:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=25837.0

 

Hi megan918

 

Regardless of the form required by BB that I understand, I would do AGAIN and exactly the SAME THING outside this forum, should my own son take Mirtazapine and Pristiq together. I just don't want to see him heading eyes shut over a cliff. I just do not want to see a person in imminent danger and not quickly intervene in the name of rules however good they may be.

 

Just for information, here is what triggered my answer:

 

https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

Major RED Alert

mirtazapine  desvenlafaxine

Applies to: mirtazapine, Pristiq (desvenlafaxine)

 

Using mirtazapine together with desvenlafaxine can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

I have no problem if banned from BB but will have SERIOUS CONSCIENCE problem if my inaction put buddie's life in danger like I estimate this is the case but not addressed by BB rules.

Thank you for your responses.  I'm sorry that there arose a conflict and I do understand that Jim was trying to tell me what he would do.

I continue to be plagued with anxiety and although I have had a few breaks it return such as today since arising from a night of little sleep. Are there moderators that specialize in Valium crossover ..mine isn't going well..it seems been 19 days. 

Thanks for any help..I just want to be able to breather normally.