Direct crossover

Hi -

 

Has anyone done a direct crossover? I’m currently taking Zopiclone but have taken ativan (this is how I got into this mess !!!) and my doctor would like me to switch directly to Valium. My use is short term and at a low dose (7.5 mgs of Zopiclone currently) they would like me to switch to 5mgs of Valium and taper slowly from there. Any thoughts ? 

Hi -

 

Has anyone done a direct crossover? I’m currently taking Zopiclone but have taken ativan (this is how I got into this mess !!!) and my doctor would like me to switch directly to Valium. My use is short term and at a low dose (7.5 mgs of Zopiclone currently) they would like me to switch to 5mgs of Valium and taper slowly from there. Any thoughts ? 

 

I have heard of others successfully doing a direct crossover. Try it and see

Did not work for me...dr diid direct crossover. Basically just guessed at amount.

I am experiencing extreme debilitating fatigue, deeper depression and suicidal,thoughts. Valium can have this affect on people. If I'd known, I'd have tapered right from mt short acting benzos

I’m so sorry your having such a rough time. Can your doctor help you at all? I know there are tables in the Ashton Manual that show the dosage equivalencies, maybe you can start there?

I think that this is a reasonable suggestion by your doctor. Hold the valium dose for at least a month before tapering imo. And avoid the sporadic Ativan use.

Thanks! I haven’t had any Ativan since Oct 31, but didn’t know what I was dealing with (withdrawl) so started the Zopiclone on Nov 1. I begin the direct switch tomorrow 

Hi Salalberry2

 

I haven’t had any Ativan since Oct 31

Are you not taking any Lorazepam nowadays?

 

started the Zopiclone on Nov 1

What is your current dose? Did the unsettling symptoms start right after the first doses of this drug or did they start before while you were taking Lorazepam?

 

I begin the direct switch tomorrow

How much less Zopiclone? How much Valium are you taking? What is the planned time frame for the entire switch? What are the first reactions?

 

 

Hi Jim -

 

No Ativan at all nowadays - last dose was 1mg on Oct 31.

 

The unsettling symptoms started between October 13-31 (not sleeping, depressions, very high anxiety, depersonalization etc)

 

I am currently taking 7.5 mgs of Zopiclone, all day I feel terrible. I am supposed to switch directly to 5 mgs of Valium tonight. 

Hi Salalberry2

 

The way you felt rough symptoms during a period of 2 weeks after about 1 month and a half of use as needed of Lorazepam made me think you were in tolerance withdrawal. Evidence suggests that benzodiazepines are no longer effective after a few weeks or months of regular use. They lose much of their efficacy because of the development of tolerance. When tolerance develops, "withdrawal" symptoms can appear even though the user continues to take the drug. As during 1 month and a half you have had no symptoms, I think there was no or irrelevant inter-dose withdrawal and the symptoms you suffered are likely "withdrawal" effects due to tolerance. The symptoms described as not sleeping, depressions, anxiety, de-personalization etc are too well known as benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

To address this problem, you have been prescribed Zopiclone 7.5 mg of Z-drugs family. Have a look to this statement extracted from Ashton's manual:

 

"...Hypnotics and sedatives. Most other hypnotics and sedatives act in a similar way to benzodiazepines, including barbiturates, chloral derivatives (Noctec), ethchlorvynol (Placidyl), zopiclone (Zimovane, Imovane), zolpidem (Ambien), zaleplon (Sonata) and, incidentally, alcohol. None of these drugs should be used as alternative sleeping pills or sleeping draughts during benzodiazepine withdrawal. All can cause a similar type of dependence and some are more toxic than benzodiazepines...."

 

I fear this is the reason why you are suffering so much. The good point is that you are just for a short time into it, going off must be reasonably much easier then when someone is taking it for months/years. Did you just interrupt it and replace it right away with Valium 5 mg? While I hope everything turns out fine for you, I feel a little bit uneasy. For a few reasons:

- Zopiclone is kind of a disguised-benzo, a bad beast. Even after one only week use, I wonder if and what damages it has done to your body and how rough would be to cold turkey it.

- Valium is another beast. You know nothing about it and ignore how your body reacts to it. As it takes about 10-14 days before it becomes stable in your organism, you will definitely know if it works or not only after some time.

- Is 5 mg of Valium equivalent to 7.5 mg Zopiclone? I have no information about it. I just know that according to Ashton's manual, your Oct 31 dose of 1 mg of Lorazepam is equivalent to 10 mg Diazepam. That is to say that in 1 month and a half you have cut half of your initial dose. That would be equivalent to a reduction of about 17% every 14 days. This is a rather fast reduction pace as the general recommendations are to reduce between 5-10% every 10-14 days to minimize withdrawal symptoms. I hope it can work for you despite your over-sensitized CNS following the previous treatments.

- If symptoms arise, we wont'be able to say if they come from the intolerance to Valium or the insufficient dose of it.

 

Hope you find soon a stable situation with manageable symptoms that enable you to be functional in the day-to-day life and start a smooth taper.

 

Thanks Jim ! I hve now been on the Zopiclone for 5 weeks. I am going to switch over to the Valium and see how it goes. If the dose isnt right I can updose from the 5mg until I find a comfortable place and will taper from there. Thanks!

Thanks Jim ! I hve now been on the Zopiclone for 5 weeks. I am going to switch over to the Valium and see how it goes. If the dose isnt right I can updose from the 5mg until I find a comfortable place and will taper from there. Thanks!

 

Searching for a "comfortable place" can be a fools errand. Hate to see you on 20mgs of valium, still feeling lousy with a 1.5 yr taper still to go. Keep this in mind.

Thanks - I think your right. Am going to do a quick taper with Valium (5mgs) and be done with it.

Jim or anyone else -

 

 

Any thoughts on doing on rapid taper? I’ve been three days on Valium - seems to work just fine. First night was bad but I assume that was the Zopiclone leaving my system. I’ve even been able to nap a little. Seeing my use of Ativan and Zopiclone were short term I’d like to be done with this. No physical side effects just some DP/DR. Any ideas on how to come off quickly and comfortably? Thanks

Jim or anyone else -

 

 

Any thoughts on doing on rapid taper? I’ve been three days on Valium - seems to work just fine. First night was bad but I assume that was the Zopiclone leaving my system. I’ve even been able to nap a little. Seeing my use of Ativan and Zopiclone were short term I’d like to be done with this. No physical side effects just some DP/DR. Any ideas on how to come off quickly and comfortably? Thanks

 

I would ask for 2mg tablets.

Since you are a short term user I would try this rate:

Week

  1          5 mg

  2          4 mg

  3          3.5mg

  4          3mg

  5          2.5mg

  6          2mg

  7          1.5

  8          1mg

Done

 

If symptoms become unmanageable go slower

 

Good luck!

Thanks! The Valium seems to agree with me, and the interdose nonsense from Zopiclone is gone!! Hopefully I can come off the Valium easily! Thanks

You are welcome and I wish you a smooth taper & speedy recovery!