When you micro taper will it get harder towards the end

If you cut daily micro taper. Will it get harder toward the end

I'm interested in this too. I've heard some say they walked off and others that it got harder. Going from .75 k avg to .5 was easier than now going down from .5

It's like a whole new taper has begun but I can't do months of this.

Yes I am afraid also I am at less than 0.5 Ativan and I daily micro taper and I feel every 0.001 I drop it’s like torture for what’s going to be another 6 months

How it that possible ?

Yes I am afraid also I am at less than 0.5 Ativan and I daily micro taper and I feel every 0.001 I drop it’s like torture for what’s going to be another 6 months

How it that possible ?

 

I know. Seriously !  I don't understand how others before have done this, many who were even worse off. I thank God every day it's not worse. I keep thinking I'll taper my pill weight in days which would be 150! And that sounds like torture. I'm praying it eases up as we get lower. Some people actually said they felt better.

I hope so , wishing you the best !

Wishing you the best too! Maybe she someone will chime in even tho if sure I’m repeating myself 

I hope not. I'm having an OK time so far. And when I say "OK" I mean I'm not debilitated. Although there was a 3 or 4 week period where I felt like I was sick but with no symptoms, if that makes sense. I feel better now and I'm tapering on through it. We'll see how it goes.

I hope not. I'm having an OK time so far. And when I say "OK" I mean I'm not debilitated. Although there was a 3 or 4 week period where I felt like I was sick but with no symptoms, if that makes sense. I feel better now and I'm tapering on through it. We'll see how it goes.

 

Wishing you the best too !

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

 

Thanks builder. That makes sense. It just seems like it would be never ending if we keep changing the percent. My brain just doesn’t want to compute. I’m basically doing .001 dry cut reduction daily. Sometimes I hold.

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

 

 

 

Thanks builder. That makes sense. It just seems like it would be never ending if we keep changing the percent. My brain just doesn’t want to compute. I’m basically doing .001 dry cut reduction daily. Sometimes I hold.

 

There's an old saying in the skilled trades world...There are bold electricians and old electricians, but there are NO bold, old electricians!  Paraphrasing that for the benzo world would be something like...There are fast taperers, and there are happy taperers, but there NO fast, happy taperers. 

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

 

 

Thanks builder. That makes sense. It just seems like it would be never ending if we keep changing the percent. My brain just doesn’t want to compute. I’m basically doing .001 dry cut reduction daily. Sometimes I hold.

 

There's an old saying in the skilled trades world...There are bold electricians and old electricians, but there are NO bold, old electricians!  Paraphrasing that for the benzo world would be something like...There are fast taperers, and there are happy taperers, but there NO fast, happy taperers. 

 

Builder,

According to your signature, it looks like you increased %wise in the last few months.  Are you saying you wouldn’t do it that way now based on what you know now?

Builder,

 

Great post.  When you were tapering what syringes were you using? 

 

I am tapering on a mix of 2 mg Valium pills and liquid Valium.  The liquid Valium is mixed one part liquid Valium with 9 parts of water as you did.  I am taking 4 mg of Valium through pills and a bit less than 2 mg of Valium through liquid Valium.

 

Right now I am using a 10 mg that has four .2 ml marks between each ml mark.  So the smallest liquid dose that I can measure with that syringe is .2 ml, and even that is hard to be precise with.  It seems fine for now.  As I go on I imagine I will have to use the 10 ML syringe to measure most of the liquid dose down to the nearest ML, and will have to start using a 1 ml syringe to measure the fractional part of the liquid dose that I am actively reducing.

 

thanks

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

 

 

Thanks builder. That makes sense. It just seems like it would be never ending if we keep changing the percent. My brain just doesn’t want to compute. I’m basically doing .001 dry cut reduction daily. Sometimes I hold.

 

There's an old saying in the skilled trades world...There are bold electricians and old electricians, but there are NO bold, old electricians!  Paraphrasing that for the benzo world would be something like...There are fast taperers, and there are happy taperers, but there NO fast, happy taperers. 

 

Builder,

According to your signature, it looks like you increased %wise in the last few months.  Are you saying you wouldn’t do it that way now based on what you know now?

 

My entire taper was symptom driven (as all tapers should be!)  When I would feel sxs emerging, I would adjust my taper rate down.  But once I got below about 3 mg, it was very apparent that I really no longer had any real sxs, so I began increasing my cut rate.

 

Again, as I said above, as your dose declines, your dependency declines.  Once you reach that point, you can probably safely head for the finish line.

 

And if I ever had to do it over again, I would do it exactly the same way!  My only regret is a did a (miserable) C&H taper from 15 down to 9 before I started DLMT.  If I had to do it over, I would do DLMT from the very beginning.  I will never understand why people think they should get down to lower doses before the start DLMT.

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

 

 

Thanks builder. That makes sense. It just seems like it would be never ending if we keep changing the percent. My brain just doesn’t want to compute. I’m basically doing .001 dry cut reduction daily. Sometimes I hold.

 

There's an old saying in the skilled trades world...There are bold electricians and old electricians, but there are NO bold, old electricians!  Paraphrasing that for the benzo world would be something like...There are fast taperers, and there are happy taperers, but there NO fast, happy taperers. 

 

Builder,

According to your signature, it looks like you increased %wise in the last few months.  Are you saying you wouldn’t do it that way now based on what you know now?

 

My entire taper was symptom driven (as all tapers should be!)  When I would feel sxs emerging, I would adjust my taper rate down.  But once I got below about 3 mg, it was very apparent that I really no longer had any real sxs, so I began increasing my cut rate.

 

Again, as I said above, as your dose declines, your dependency declines.  Once you reach that point, you can probably safely head for the finish line.

 

And if I ever had to do it over again, I would do it exactly the same way!  My only regret is a did a (miserable) C&H taper from 15 down to 9 before I started DLMT.  If I had to do it over, I would do DLMT from the very beginning.  I will never understand why people think they should get down to lower doses before the start DLMT.

 

Thank you for responding.  Yes!  I absolutely agree that I wish I had started DLMT much earlier!  Thinking back, I resisted because the earlier cuts were "doable" and I didn't understand how much easier the sxs are with DLMT.  I thought I could do it without "dealing" with the liquid which seemed complicated.  But I could have had a much easier time of it with the daily microtaper,  FOR SURE!!!  With all the good you do on the boards, I hope you have had some successes getting people to understand this and save them the pain and suffering!

 

Thanks, builder!

So if Builder found that below 3 mg valium he found he had few symptoms, then I can hope once I get below 0.15 mg xanax I will have few symptoms (more or less, your mileage may vary).

 

I adjust my taper as I get lower to keep the percentage the same (about 20% every 10 days, seems to work for me). But I keep thinking "this will take me forever" as I keep the percentage the same. Good to know there's a point where I can just keep going at the same mass rate.

If you keep your percentage taper rate   fairly uniform, you will have no trouble.

 

The reason folks say its harder near the end is because they continue to taper the same milligram rate, so as the dose gets lower, the percentage reduction gets dramatically bigger.

 

If you maintain a workable percentage taper rate, you will likely find it actually gets easier at lower doses.  As your dose declines, your dependency also declines.

 

 

Thanks builder. That makes sense. It just seems like it would be never ending if we keep changing the percent. My brain just doesn’t want to compute. I’m basically doing .001 dry cut reduction daily. Sometimes I hold.

 

There's an old saying in the skilled trades world...There are bold electricians and old electricians, but there are NO bold, old electricians!  Paraphrasing that for the benzo world would be something like...There are fast taperers, and there are happy taperers, but there NO fast, happy taperers. 

 

Builder,

According to your signature, it looks like you increased %wise in the last few months.  Are you saying you wouldn’t do it that way now based on what you know now?

 

My entire taper was symptom driven (as all tapers should be!)  When I would feel sxs emerging, I would adjust my taper rate down.  But once I got below about 3 mg, it was very apparent that I really no longer had any real sxs, so I began increasing my cut rate.

 

Again, as I said above, as your dose declines, your dependency declines.  Once you reach that point, you can probably safely head for the finish line.

 

And if I ever had to do it over again, I would do it exactly the same way!  My only regret is a did a (miserable) C&H taper from 15 down to 9 before I started DLMT.  If I had to do it over, I would do DLMT from the very beginning.  I will never understand why people think they should get down to lower doses before the start DLMT.

 

Are there any YouTube videos on exactly how to DLMT? I've looked but have only been able to find one and the guy used whole milk. I get the basic idea on using vodka and water etc. I just feel like seeing the process would ensure I wouldn't miss a step.

Also, What happens when you have to travel for a week or so and need to DLMT? I assume bring the equipment and do that in the hotel room. I would be concerned with TSA or security taking the equipment and you would be screwed for your trip.

Oh yeah, I have no travel plans until I finish this. I'm hoping to be done by next summer so I can at least plan something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are there any YouTube videos on exactly how to DLMT? I've looked but have only been able to find one and the guy used whole milk. I get the basic idea on using vodka and water etc. I just feel like seeing the process would ensure I wouldn't miss a step.

Also, What happens when you have to travel for a week or so and need to DLMT? I assume bring the equipment and do that in the hotel room. I would be concerned with TSA or security taking the equipment and you would be screwed for your trip.

 

Yeah, there are youtube videos.  All the ones I've seen are full of misinformation, and/or ridiculously over-complicated.

 

Can you stir cream and sugar into your coffee without a video?  That's all there is to it...you mix one dry ingredient with 2 liquids.*

 

And no, you do not need to carry your "equipment".  You make a 10-14 day batch and keep it in a glass jar or bottle, just like you would any other liquid med.  Then you just measure out your dose and take it, just like you would any other liquid med.

 

See, that's some of the false info you'll find on YouTube.  You don't make a seperate batch each day or each dose, you make a batch for 10-14 days.  Then its no different than any other liquid med.  You can take it with you anywhere (even on a plane, up to 100ml)

 

* ...or if you do milk, then its one dry ingredient in one liquid.  How complicated is it to drop a tablet in a glass of milk?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are there any YouTube videos on exactly how to DLMT? I've looked but have only been able to find one and the guy used whole milk. I get the basic idea on using vodka and water etc. I just feel like seeing the process would ensure I wouldn't miss a step.

Also, What happens when you have to travel for a week or so and need to DLMT? I assume bring the equipment and do that in the hotel room. I would be concerned with TSA or security taking the equipment and you would be screwed for your trip.

 

Yeah, there are youtube videos.  All the ones I've seen are full of misinformation, and/or ridiculously over-complicated.

 

Can you stir cream and sugar into your coffee without a video?  That's all there is to it...you mix one dry ingredient with 2 liquids.*

 

And no, you do not need to carry your "equipment".  You make a 10-14 day batch and keep it in a glass jar or bottle, just like you would any other liquid med.  Then you just measure out your dose and take it, just like you would any other liquid med.

 

See, that's some of the false info you'll find on YouTube.  You don't make a seperate batch each day or each dose, you make a batch for 10-14 days.  Then its no different than any other liquid med.  You can take it with you anywhere (even on a plane, up to 100ml)

 

* ...or if you do milk, then its one dry ingredient in one liquid.  How complicated is it to drop a tablet in a glass of milk?

 

Yeah, The YouTube videos are garbage. I guess one of my main questions is do you just use a little container to dissolve the pills in the vodka and then add this into your graduated cylinder along with water to make your total solution?

So when you make your 10-14 suppy solution are you just drawing out the amount with a syringe and adding it to a liquid to drink?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm just having trouble conceptualizing the process. I understand that the total solution = the total dissolved pills and you use that as your baseline.

 

*Also, My doctor prescribes me .25 Xanax pills 4 times a day. If I made a 10 day  supply I would be dissolving 40  pills?

 

* Would I want to get 1mg  pills so that I would only dissolve 10?

 

*How again do you determine the amount of vodka to add to the pills? My doctor may only continue my prescription of .25 tablets so I guess I should reference this question assuming I would be using .25 Xanax tablets four per day to start.

 

Maybe I'm over thinking this. I was planning on dry tapering until I got to a low dose and then read your comment it this thread about DLMT from the beginning and now I'm reconsidering my taper.

 

Thanks in advance, Builder

My taper got easier as I got lower in dose, but I did have some seriously long holds.  When I went down to .125mg of klonopin I held for quite a while, and I still think that for me,  that was where the klonopin started to have very little effect on meand my healing really began there. 

 

As I went down from 125k, I cut .01mg each time and held, then once I got down to .04mg, I had to hold, due to symptoms.  There I switched to a daily cut of .001mg, which worked out really well for me.  My last month of tapering has been not very different from my first month off, and it's not too bad.  I don't feel great, but I am not in any severe pain and I'm able to function most days. 

 

Yeah, The YouTube videos are garbage. I guess one of my main questions is do you just use a little container to dissolve the pills in the vodka and then add this into your graduated cylinder along with water to make your total solution?

 

It really doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is you dissolve the tablet(s) in the solvent first, then dilute with water.

 

 

So when you make your 10-14 suppy solution are you just drawing out the amount with a syringe and adding it to a liquid to drink?

 

 

You just extract the appropriate amount for your dose(s)  As long as you eventually swallow it, it really doesn't matter what else you do with it.  You can drink it "straight", or mix/dilute with more liquid.

 

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm just having trouble conceptualizing the process. I understand that the total solution = the total dissolved pills and you use that as your baseline.

 

*Also, My doctor prescribes me .25 Xanax pills 4 times a day. If I made a 10 day  supply I would be dissolving 40  pills?

 

Yes.

 

* Would I want to get 1mg  pills so that I would only dissolve 10?

 

It doesn't matter.  You need to just think in terms of dissolving milligrams of xanax.  It doesn't matter what size pills you would use.  But as your dose declines, the smaller pills will give you more flexibility.

 

*How again do you determine the amount of vodka to add to the pills? My doctor may only continue my prescription of .25 tablets so I guess I should reference this question assuming I would be using .25 Xanax tablets four per day to start.

 

You will always use 2ml vodka for each mg of benzo. Then you can either add 8mls water for a .1mg solution (my choice), or 98 mls water for a .01mg per ml solution.

Maybe I'm over thinking this. I was planning on dry tapering until I got to a low dose and then read your comment it this thread about DLMT from the beginning and now I'm reconsidering my taper.

 

Yes, I'm sure your overthinking it, many folks do.  It's not complex concept.  Your converting your tablets to a liquid, and then taking your dose from a bottle of liquid instead of a bottle of pills.

 

Note that most of my answers are "...it doesn't matter".  This is not rocket science.  It's not even high school chemistry.  Its closer to Home Ec.  The only "rules" are 1)  use at least 2mls vodka for each 1mg of benzo, and 2) dissolve the benzo in the vodka before adding the water.

 

Thanks in advance, Builder

As for the liquid taper unless your a chemist or really good with math it seems impossible .

I take Ativan witch you can’t use water or milk . Then how much water and how many pills then what is the math for each dose , when someone can’t even think clearly then that is impossible .

I wish there was a step by step and someone who could figure the entire taper

It’s just to complicated for my mind at this state I just try to get thru each hour . Good luck to all . I will keep dry taper and reduce daily hope I will make it it has not been as easy as I have read .

 

Yeah, The YouTube videos are garbage. I guess one of my main questions is do you just use a little container to dissolve the pills in the vodka and then add this into your graduated cylinder along with water to make your total solution?

 

It really doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is you dissolve the tablet(s) in the solvent first, then dilute with water.

 

 

So when you make your 10-14 suppy solution are you just drawing out the amount with a syringe and adding it to a liquid to drink?

 

 

You just extract the appropriate amount for your dose(s)  As long as you eventually swallow it, it really doesn't matter what else you do with it.  You can drink it "straight", or mix/dilute with more liquid.

 

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm just having trouble conceptualizing the process. I understand that the total solution = the total dissolved pills and you use that as your baseline.

 

*Also, My doctor prescribes me .25 Xanax pills 4 times a day. If I made a 10 day  supply I would be dissolving 40  pills?

 

Yes.

 

* Would I want to get 1mg  pills so that I would only dissolve 10?

 

It doesn't matter.  You need to just think in terms of dissolving milligrams of xanax.  It doesn't matter what size pills you would use.  But as your dose declines, the smaller pills will give you more flexibility.

 

*How again do you determine the amount of vodka to add to the pills? My doctor may only continue my prescription of .25 tablets so I guess I should reference this question assuming I would be using .25 Xanax tablets four per day to start.

 

You will always use 2ml vodka for each mg of benzo. Then you can either add 8mls water for a .1mg solution (my choice), or 98 mls water for a .01mg per ml solution.

Maybe I'm over thinking this. I was planning on dry tapering until I got to a low dose and then read your comment it this thread about DLMT from the beginning and now I'm reconsidering my taper.

 

Yes, I'm sure your overthinking it, many folks do.  It's not complex concept.  Your converting your tablets to a liquid, and then taking your dose from a bottle of liquid instead of a bottle of pills.

 

Note that most of my answers are "...it doesn't matter".  This is not rocket science.  It's not even high school chemistry.  Its closer to Home Ec.  The only "rules" are 1)  use at least 2mls vodka for each 1mg of benzo, and 2) dissolve the benzo in the vodka before adding the water.

 

Thanks in advance, Builder

Thank You, Builder! That pretty much cleared things up for me. Now I'll just need to put together a liquid benzo taper plan and a pay close attention to my body as I move forward.

...

I wish there was a step by step and someone who could figure the entire taper

...

 

There is actually.  JimHawk made an online tool that does all the dosage calculations, creating a spreadsheet that lists every dose, using your desired rate, concentration, etc... - Here is a link to the tool.  It seems really confusing at first, but many folks are willing to help.  (Here’s a post in my log with the parameters that I used at that point in my taper.  The post just above that has a few links to some things that I found helpful, though the “help” link is no longer valid.... (The tool itself has "Help" links built into it though.)

 

Like Builder, my taper was symptom driven. 

 

I used several approaches, modifying as I went along.  I started by dry cutting, then when I couldn’t tolerate it, I switched to the liquid method, reducing each dose by a set volume - until I couldn’t tolerate that anymore.  For the end, I used JimHawk’s tool, with the goal of reducing by 10% per month.  My intention was to "jump" at .05mg (Xanax) but I was/am prepared to go to .025 (if I experience an uptick of symptoms.)

 

I messed up a few times & I did have to hold at various points along the way, so all-in-all, I never stayed at a set rate - rather I adjusted my rate, according to my symptoms.

 

Taking it slow really is the best thing, and it does not need to be complicated to be effective.