Sleep Cycles and Withdrawal

What Is a Sleep Cycle?

 

A sleep cycle refers to the period of time it takes for an individual to progress through the stages of sleep outlined above. One does not go straight from deep sleep to REM sleep, however. Rather, a sleep cycle progress through the stages of non-REM sleep from light to deep sleep, then reverse back from deep sleep to light sleep, ending with time in REM sleep before starting over in light sleep again. For example, the order looks something like this:

 

Stage 1 (light sleep) – Stage 2 (light sleep) – Stage 3-4 (deep sleep) – Stage 2 (light sleep) – Stage 1 (light sleep) – REM Sleep

 

After REM sleep, the individual returns to stage 1 of light sleep and begins a new cycle. As the night progresses, individuals spend increasingly more time in REM sleep and correspondingly less time in deep sleep.

 

How long is a sleep cycle? The first sleep cycle takes about 90 minutes. After that, they average between 90 to 120 minutes. Typically, an individual will go through four to five sleep cycles a night.

 

Below are four stages of sleep. Stages 1-4 are non-REM sleep, followed by REM sleep.  People with Benzo withdrawal induced insomnia often complain about not getting any "deep" sleep or mostly stage 1 or 2 sleep. 

 

Stage 1 is light sleep where you drift in and out of sleep and can be awakened easily. In this stage, the eyes move slowly and muscle activity slows. During this stage, many people experience sudden muscle contractions preceded by a sensation of falling.

 

In stage 2, eye movement stops and brain waves become slower with only an occasional burst of rapid brain waves. The body begins to prepare for deep sleep, as the body temperature begins to drop and the heart rates slows.

 

When a person enters stage 3, extremely slow brain waves called delta waves are interspersed with smaller, faster waves. This is deep sleep. It is during this stage that a person may experience sleepwalking, night terrors, talking during one’s sleep, and bedwetting. These behaviors are known as parasomnias, and tend to occur during the transitions between non-REM and REM sleep.

 

In stage 4, deep sleep continues as the brain produces delta waves almost exclusively. People roused from this state feel disoriented for a few minutes.

 

During REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, brain waves mimic activity during the waking state. The eyes remain closed but move rapidly from side-to-side, perhaps related to the intense dream and brain activity that occurs during this stage.

 

What Is Deep Sleep?

 

Stages 3 and 4 are referred to as deep sleep, slow wave sleep, or delta sleep. It is very difficult to wake someone from them. Children are nearly impossible to wake up from this stage, and may be prone to bedwetting, sleepwalking or night terrors. In deep sleep, there is no eye movement or muscle activity.

 

Deep sleep reduces your sleep drive, and provides the most restorative sleep of all the sleep stages. This is why if you take a short nap during the day, you’re still able to fall asleep at night. But if you take a nap long enough to fall into deep sleep, you have more difficulty falling asleep at night because you reduced your need for sleep.

 

During deep sleep, human growth hormone is released and restores your body and muscles from the stresses of the day. Your immune system restores itself. Much less is known about deep sleep than REM sleep. It may be during this stage that the brain also refreshes itself for new learning the following day.

 

In 2008 the sleep profession in the US eliminated the use of stage 4. Stages 3 and 4 are now considered stage 3 or N3.

When Does REM Sleep Occur?

 

Slow wave sleep comes mostly in the first half of the night, REM in the second half. REM sleep typically begins about 90 minutes after you first fall asleep, with the first REM cycle lasting about 10 minutes. Each successive REM cycle last longer, with the final REM stage lasting up to 1 hour. Most people experience three to five intervals of REM sleep each night.

 

Waking may occur after REM.  If the waking period is long enough, the person may remember it the next morning. Short awakenings may disappear with amnesia.

 

In the REM period, breathing becomes more rapid, irregular and shallow, eyes jerk rapidly and limb muscles are temporarily paralyzed. Brain waves during this stage increase to levels experienced when a person is awake. Also, heart rate increases, blood pressure rises, males develop erections and the body loses some of the ability to regulate its temperature

How Your Sleep Cycle Changes With Age

 

The different cycles of sleep last for different amounts of time during the night. Non-REM sleep dominates the first half of the night, while the amount of time spent in REM stage sleep increases during the second half.

 

The amount of time you spend in each stage also depends on your age.

 

Infants spend almost 50% of their time in REM sleep. Adults spend nearly half of sleep time in stage 2, about 20% in REM and the other 30% is divided between the other three stages. Older adults spend progressively less time in REM sleep.

 

People that have Benzo induced insomnia often report going through REM REBOUND or periods of lots of dreams.  It is possible they are actually dreaming more or just remembering their dreams?

 

People often complain that even when they start to sleep after being sleep deprived for so long that they don't feel refreshed.  This is what I coined as the "returning sleep paradox."  You get the sleep your body so desperately needs, but you still don't feel refreshed or even like you slept at all. 

 

8 hours of sleep per night is a myth.  Given the current amount of knowledge we have regarding sleep, no one knows for sure why we sleep.  Many people do very well on 3-6 hours per night.  Some need more, some less.

 

Nice Copy and Paste TheWay, I get 0% Deep Sleep, I get shitty light sleep and Sometime REM Sleep just to have fucking bad dreams ruin an already horrible broken sleep!

So what are you going to do about your crappy sleep?  Obviously complaining and blaming people that healed is NOT working.  What is your game plan?  Saying everyone doesn't heal won't fix your insomnia either.

 

You wouldn't know if you were in deep sleep anyway.  It's like being knocked out for surgery. 

 

Just because you don't feel refreshed doesn't mean you don't get any deep sleep.  Deep sleep only lasts for 10 - 25 minutes for most people anyway.  The only way to tell if you are getting deep sleep for sure is with a sleep study.  I had one done 3 weeks after my cold turkey and still got 13 minutes of deep sleep that night out of 1.5 hours of total sleep.

 

Bad dreams/nightmares are on the withdrawal list.  Sleep Issues – Excessive sleeping, Insomnia, Myoclonic jerks, Sleep paralysis, No dreaming, Vivid dreaming, Nightmares, but wait, your withdrawal is over...so again what is your plan to get rid of your insomnia that is no longer being caused by Benzo withdrawal?

 

Making snarky comments about people's post doesn't cure insomnia.

 

Swearing in your posts doesn't cure insomnia.

 

You don't have insomnia because of a lack of Rx sleep drugs in your body.

 

Good luck!

 

 

So what are you going to do about your crappy sleep?  Obviously complaining and blaming people that healed is NOT working.  What is your game plan?  Saying everyone doesn't heal won't fix your insomnia either.

 

You wouldn't know if you were in deep sleep anyway.  It's like being knocked out for surgery. 

 

Just because you don't feel refreshed doesn't mean you don't get any deep sleep.  Deep sleep only lasts for 10 - 25 minutes for most people anyway.  The only way to tell if you are getting deep sleep for sure is with a sleep study.  I had one done 3 weeks after my cold turkey and still got 13 minutes of deep sleep that night out of 1.5 hours of total sleep.

 

Bad dreams/nightmares are on the withdrawal list.  Sleep Issues – Excessive sleeping, Insomnia, Myoclonic jerks, Sleep paralysis, No dreaming, Vivid dreaming, Nightmares, but wait, your withdrawal is over...so again what is your plan to get rid of your insomnia that is no longer being caused by Benzo withdrawal?

 

Making snarky comments about people's post doesn't cure insomnia.

 

Swearing in your posts doesn't cure insomnia.

 

You don't have insomnia because of a lack of Rx sleep drugs in your body.

 

Good luck!

 

Answer me this then, how does people wake up feeling refreshed READY FOR THE DAY? Deep Sleep is so you get GOOD QUALITY Im Ready for the day sleep! When you wake up EVERY day feeling druged the hell up thats not good quality deep sleep

 

There is a reason they call it restorative sleep to GAIN ENERGY BACK! Obviously I get none of that

They wake up feeling refreshed after sleep for 2 reasons:

 

1) They don't take anything to sleep with...no Rx or OTC drugs that make you feel drugged in the morning

2) Their withdrawal is really over.  If you still wake up feeling drugged, then your withdrawal hasn't ended or you are still taking Benadryl or something else to sleep with?

 

Complaining or trying to blame me isn't helping you is it?  Are you getting deep sleep when you drop F-bombs in posts or saying you will never heal?

 

You keep repeating the same things over and over again as if you repeat them enough you or others will believe them.

 

You would have ZERO idea if you got any deep sleep at anyway.  Getting 10 or 15 minutes of deep sleep per night is not going to automatically make you feel refreshed or be restorative.

 

MY question to you is this:  How are you going to get deep refreshing/restorative sleep back?  What is your plan?

 

They wake up feeling refreshed after sleep for 2 reasons:

 

1) They don't take anything to sleep with...no Rx or OTC drugs that make you feel drugged in the morning

2) Their withdrawal is really over.  If you still wake up feeling drugged, then your withdrawal hasn't ended or you are still taking Benadryl or something else to sleep with?

 

Complaining or trying to blame me isn't helping you is it?  Are you getting deep sleep when you drop F-bombs in posts or saying you will never heal?

 

You keep repeating the same things over and over again as if you repeat them enough you or others will believe them.

 

You would have ZERO idea if you got any deep sleep at anyway.  Getting 10 or 15 minutes of deep sleep per night is not going to automatically make you feel refreshed or be restorative.

 

MY question to you is this:  How are you going to get deep refreshing/restorative sleep back?  What is your plan?

 

I Take LESS then a Half a dose of Nyquil a night, Not a Half A Half of a Half...no way that should make you feel shitty all day at all! If that little bit does somethings horribly wrong

Nice Copy and Paste TheWay, I get 0% Deep Sleep, I get shitty light sleep and Sometime REM Sleep just to have fucking bad dreams ruin an already horrible broken sleep!

 

Mark,

You may not be getting any sleep, but you are doing a good job putting us all to sleep. Your continued complaining and whining are getting very tiresome.

I Take LESS then a Half a dose of Nyquil a night, Not a Half A Half of a Half...no way that should make you feel shitty all day at all! If that little bit does somethings horribly wrong

  a half of a half is a 1/4 genius!  If stupid could fly you'd be a jet!

 

So you are still taking Benadryl.  There's your answer.  Benadryl is making you feel drugged whenever you wake up.  You must be a Benzo withdrawal and sleep expert now as you are dead sure that a 1/4 of a dose of Benadryl doesn't do anything or shouldn't do anything?

 

Your sleep and feeling drugged in the morning speak for themselves.  1mg of Ativan = 10mg of Valium.  It's not a measly dose.  1/4 dose of Benadryl IS causing problems, but apparently you are too smart to see that?  That's like saying if I cut my neck with a 1/4" blade I shouldn't bleed to death, but with a 1" blade I'd be dead for sure.  You are probably in Benadryl withdrawal now?

 

Again, what's your plan to get deep/restorative sleep now that your withdrawal has ended?

 

Complaining about what you are still taking and assuming it shouldn't be doing anything to you isn't working, is it?  According to your own reasoning and logic, then there is no way Benzos should make you go into withdrawal. not sleep and feel shitty for months either.  Especially a measly dose of 1mg of Ativan for over 2 years.

I Take LESS then a Half a dose of Nyquil a night, Not a Half A Half of a Half...no way that should make you feel shitty all day at all! If that little bit does somethings horribly wrong

  a half of a half is a 1/4 genius!  If stupid could fly you'd be a jet!

 

So you are still taking Benadryl.  There's you answer.  Benadryl is making you feel drugged whenever you wake up.  You must be a Benzo withdrawal and sleep expert now as you are dead sure that a 1/4 of a dose of Benadryl doesn't do anything or shouldn't do anything?

 

Your sleep and feeling drugged in the morning speak for themselves.  1mg of Ativan = 10mg of Valium.  It's not a measly dose.  1/2 dose of Benadryl IS causing problems, but apparently you are too smart to see that?  That's like saying if I cut my neck with a 1/2" blade I shouldn't bleed to death, but with a 1" blade I'd be dead for sure.  You are probably in Benadryl withdrawal now?

 

Again, what's your plan to get deep/restorative sleep now that your withdrawal has ended?

 

Complaining about what you are still taking and assuming it shouldn't be doing anything to you isn't working, is it?  According to your own reasoning and logic, then there is no way Benzos should make you go into withdrawal. not sleep and feel shitty for months either.  Especially a measly dose of 1mg of Ativan for over 2 years.

 

Well you been wrong about me so far....December 10th I would be off a full year, and yet I still feel as shitty and have problems as I did in month 1....and yeah I am getting sleep but of course WITH THE VERY SMALL Dose of Nyquil and you Put a 1/2 Does Damage I said Half of a Half....

 

I hope your around in another year the way Ill say Look Still shitty and no GOOD Windows like everyone else gets...Then TheWay Will say, 24 months ISNT MUCH off, give it another year or 2 or 3

A half of a half is 1/4 or did you skip school the day they taught math?

 

You never answer any questions...You are still on Benadryl...so that is why you still feel shitty and wake up feeling like you are drugged. 

 

You most likely have become tolerant to and dependent on Benadryl?

 

I Never said I was right about you.  I Don't know you.  All I know about you I learned from your posts.  I said everyone heals from Benzo damage.  I never said preexisting conditions always heal too.  But most people do lifestyle changes and learn how to cope with their preexisting conditions.  Not you.  ALL you DO is COMPLAIN.  How's that working out for you? 

 

This forum is for people trying to get better and deal with Benzo withdrawal.  I don't see anyone else on this forum trying to get others to agree with them that they will never heal.  And then just complain and whine all the time. 

 

You said your withdrawal is over.  Congratulations...you are healed.  But you still have insomnia and ZERO plans to address that.

 

You are right.  You will probably have isomnia the rest of your life...happy now!

Theway, I think this is unnecessarily unkind and "tough love" ish:

 

You said your withdrawal is over.  Congratulations...you are healed.  But you still have insomnia and ZERO plans to address that.

 

So you are right.  You are doomed and will have isomnia the rest of your life...happy now!

 

I don't think your responses are at all warranted. If his despairing comments bother you, maybe don't answer. Just a thought. He will have to find his own way to what works for him. He may make a plan, and he may not. As I see it, he's just flailing and lashing out. He's desperate.

 

May we all have sleep-filled nights.

 

Katz

 

 

Katz,

 

I could say the same thing to you too..if my comments bother you, then maybe you don't need to respond?

 

That's what he wants to hear...that he will never heal.  I have made over 60 positive and encouraging posts to him and all he goes back to is complaining and how he will never heal.  So I am telling him what he wants to hear.  That's the ONLY way he will be satisfied.  If he is over Benzo withdrawal and healed, why is he desperate and lashing out?

This site could benefit from a little filtering at times. I understand that everyone responds to their stresses in different ways, but continued lashing out with a very unpleasant attitude while refusing to listen to any reason and hope really pushes the limits of one's tolerance. At some point this can begin to suck the hope from other fragile buddies. If you are going to keep taking from this site you really need to find something within you to give back at some point.

Well said Aloha...well said!

Katz,

 

I could say the same thing to you too..if my comments bother you, then maybe you don't need to respond?

 

That's what he wants to hear...that he will never heal.  I have made over 60 positive and encouraging posts to him and all he goes back to is complaining and how he will never heal.  So I am telling him what he wants to hear.  That's the ONLY way he will be satisfied.  If he is over Benzo withdrawal and healed, why is he desperate and lashing out?

 

I know this much that Not EVERYONE has healed on this forum, I bet anything on it.....There are people that Have this crap till they die....TheWay thinks everyone will eventually Heal when thats NOT the case! There is NOT a 100% Success rate here and if he or aloha says that then they are lying to themselves and us

What do you plan on doing with this wise insight of yours? Stew in your own misery until you fall over dead, while dragging others down with you?

What do you plan on doing with this wise insight of yours? Stew in your own misery until you fall over dead, while dragging others down with you?

 

yep

only other meds I am on is hydroclothorizide, which is a water pill for BP and Lipitor for High Cholesterol....neither which should effect my sleep quality or brain

 

If they do then I am screwed as I cannot stop those

What horrible comments.

 

Mark, sorry to say, that the nyquil will most definitely be making you feel awful. It makes MOST people feel like crap.

 

you are a year off. You have done the hard work. Now ditch anything else and let the magic happen.

 

 

 

 

Mark, read the thread below this one on antihistamines. That might open your eyes a tad.

X

Mark,

 

Everyone heals to different degrees from the damage Benzos caused.  For most that is 100%  For some maybe only 80-90% and for a very small minority it might be less?  But they heal from the damage Benzos cause, not preexisting conditions.

 

Think of it like this, you said you are on blood pressure and cholesterol medication.  Lets just say you cut your arm and got stitches; after the cut is healed and the stitches are removed, your blood pressure and cholesterol levels don't go back to normal because the cut on your arm healed.  That is what you were expecting from healing from Benzos and your insomnia.  You are majorly confused and don't understand Benzo withdrawal and healing.

 

Benzos don't fix or heal preexisting conditions.  How many times do you need to hear that?  Benzos don't fix or heal preexisting conditions.  Healing from Benzos doesn't mean your preexisting insomnia heals.  NOBODY ever said that, but that's what you thought and that is why you keep saying not everyone heals on this forum.  But you are sadly mistaken.

 

Benzos mask symptoms, they are a band-aid not a cure for insomnia or anything else.

 

But most learn to deal with and cure their preexisting condition in other ways.  But not you. All you want to do is be negative and try to drag others down with you.  Obviously you have other health issues?  You are not even 40 years old and on blood pressure and cholesterol medication...which could be contributing to your insomnia? 

 

Why hang around here if your goal is to drag others down and be negative.  Maybe you need to take a hard look at your personal life.  I am pretty sure that is where all of your problems begin and end.  I don't think you have a job and I don't think your health is good? Not sure how it can be if you are on BP and Cholesterol medication and you said in previous posts you drink soda and eat chips.  Instead of making lifestyle changes that could help your overall health and insomnia, you choose to do nothing but complain, whine and be negative while living a self-destructive life style.

 

You are ticked off because you thought when you healed from Benzos your sleep would be healed or returned to the way it was over 4 years ago.  Again, that's not the way it works.

 

If you already healed from Benzos....and are back to your preexisting insomnia, what are you planning to do to fix that aside from saying not everyone heals on this site? Which is a lie.  People "don't heal" from a preexisting conditions.  And the worse your baseline health is when you go on Benzos, the more you are going to complain about "not healing."

 

I didn't have any baseline health issues, except some insomnia, prior to going on Benzos...now that I am healed I still don't have any baseline health issues except for an off night of sleep maybe once every 2 months.  My sleep has greatly improved from where it was when I was in Benzo withdrawal because I made lifestyle changes, showed gratitude, tried to be positive and did lots and lots of things to improve my sleep that had nothing to do with Rx or OTC drugs.

 

Heal your body, heal your sleep.

 

 

 

bump!