55 months off Benzos and still have some symptoms. Anyone else?

I'm 55 months off benzos and 50 months off Remeron, but still have issues with anxiety, fog, dizziness, dried up breathing/sinus issues, sleep, GI stuff.  HAs anyone else off this long still have symptoms?  I am tons better off even than a year ago and am very functional, but still don't feel well much of the time.

Just returned from 3 weeks in Ireland/Scotland, and I think this revved me up.  I golf, ski, go to the gym 5 days a week,  Tring to get back to where I had been, but it is a roller coaster of feeling pretty good some days, and then it hits again. 

Doing the DNRS brain retraining program for the past 1 1/2 years and it has helped a lot, but still not there yet.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I personally think that after all of this time, it is no longer a benzo/Remeron Gaba downregulation issue, but rather, I think I'm stuck in  a "chronic sympathetic overload loop".   

Thanks  BT

BT I would not have any suggestions, as I am only 9 months off of my taper.  Still have many of the same symptoms.

I found your post though because I am looking into DNRS further.  I have tried it and found that it helps. 

Did you already do it daily ?  I am thinking of really committing to it, but it is hard with the work stress I have to deal with daily.

Hi Cessna,

Yes, I do it daily since 2/17.    I've only missed a few days during this time due to trips, vacations, etc.  I did the DVD's and shortly thereafter I went to a live class in Santa Fe, NM.  Then I did several coaching sessions on the phone.  It was wonderful and made a big difference.  The day after I returned from the class I was in a bad car accident and this was a big setback.  Still have lingering effects from the MVA.  Then I had cataract surgery which also was a stimulus with lots of light sensitivity afterward. It still continues now and is one of my lingering symptoms which I train for during my DNRS rounds.

Still, I think that the only way out of this is to change your attitude, stay positive, socialized, busy, avoid all negativity,  get exercise and to eat very healthy. 

After 55 months, I'm pretty tired of this and feel like I'm very close to being over it, but then I get a setback.  So, it's a roller coaster for sure.

Good luck to you. Let me know when you're 5 years off, as that seems to be the time that protracted people take to finally be well if you are protracted. Hopefully, you won't be.

BT

BT thanks for the advise.  Those sound like some tough setbacks.  I bet the lingering symptoms are from the surgeries. 

Was wondering if I could ask DNRS questions... I did it on the forum, and caused an uproar with people debating validity of benzo caused limbic issues. 

Anyway, do you do it all in one practice round (the recommended hour) ?  Or do you split it up across the day?

How often do you change your memories? 

What if you run out of 'impactful' memories?  Does it do anything to use memories that don't 'cause a change' / have emotion ?

Well, there is no doubt in my mind that benzos DO cause limbic imbalances in susceptible individuals.

I used to do it either 3 x 20 minutes, or 2 x 30 minutes.  I now do only 20 or 30 minutes a day, plus I do meditations 15-25 minutes using a phone app program called "Calm", which I think is the best one out there.  So, it's all about getting calm, and getting uplifted with the DNRS program for neuroplastic changes.

I have a handful of memories /futures I routinely use, but sometimes I just make them up. Sometimes I listen to another DNRS member's 20-minute sessions she posted on the DNRS site, for 20 minutes at a time, when I feel lazy and just want to do"mirroring."  Early on, I did buddy sessions with a lady from my class, but not any longer.

I never felt the "Warm Fuzzies" that  Annie discusses on the videos, and never got tears in my eyes as she did on the videos. Never.  So, with the advice of my coach, I just kept on doing whatever I could in those visions to elevate my mood.  I always feel better after a  round than when I began, so if nothing else, it has the calming effect.  I've listened to so many talks online, read others' posts, communicate with others, etc, that I pretty much know what I"m after, and again, while it has taken a long time, I know that it is working.  Others I 've talked to have given up or left the practice for extended periods.  I just keep plugging along.

If you really are committed to this, just keep going and it'll happen.  Don't give up or listen to the Debbie Downers out there. 

My recent post about being 55 months off is the first BenzoBuddie thing I"ve done or looked at since the class almost two years ago, but I felt like I wanted opinions if anyone else was still dealing with symptoms after such a long time.  So, try to stay off BB, and all the other bulletin boards and support groups as mostly it's a downer and is worrying and agitating. 

Good luck and keep it up. It is worth it to get your life back, whatever that means in your case. 

Are you male/female, old/young, live in the US or foreign?  Just curious.  I think age is a factor as it seems that young brains seem to fair better in the general population. Not so much in the DNRS world, I've observed.  I was in this for 5 years before I knew what was wrong with me, so I talked to many people and was on all the support groups online until I found the DNRS stuff.   

Anyway, this has been quite a journey, but I do see light at the end of the tunnel finally.

BT

Thank you BT... good tips. 

I am going to look into mirroring, and buddy sessions.

I never get warm and fuzzies either, though the first time I tried to access memories I found some good ones that did seem to release some 'feel good' chemicals in the brain.  But really only noticed it on the first couple times thinking about them.

I am late 30s male.  I guess I am going to commit... today is day 4 in a row, so am going to keep at it. 

You are certainly correct. "...it is no longer a benzo/Remeron Gaba downregulation issue,"

I'll never understand why so many folks  assumes every issue that they develop post-benzo is benzo related. 

I'm more than 4 years post benzo.  1)  I have always recognized that my original disorder (GAD) could re-occur just as mysteriously as it appeared  about 10 years ago, or the 2)  some new emotional or physiological condition could emerge.  But in either event, I would certainly NOT associate that with my previous benzo (and other psych drug) experiences.

If I were to experience sxs similar to what you are describing that concerned me, I would first see my primary care physician.

Well, I can tell you, builder, that I DID NOT have GAD before benzos. I was a bit nervous, that's all. Now it's written all over my medical history that I have GAD, etc. The list goes on and on. I still feel, at 56 months off, that I'll get over this debilitating benzo anxiety.

You probably did a sensible taper off Valium. I believe that makes all the difference in the world. I did not do any such thing off Ativan. I have no doubt that benzo problems can persist for years. I am seeing good progress, but it is very slow. As for seeing my PCP, that can be a slippery slope, although I have come to terms with it. All they have in their arsenal is pills, pills, pills.

I know your message was directed at Benzotired, but since we're about the same time off, I thought I'd offer my two cents to this.

I think what BT is saying, and at least what is making sense to me as a way of trying to figure out what is going on long term, is that there are other parts to benzo withdrawal, than just the gaba downregulation.

As in, in the shorter term that is the main culprit. 

In the longer term, a limbic system impairment, or neuroplastic changes that occurred during the acute period, could be a cause of longer term symptoms.

Yes, Cessna, 

That is what I originally meant when I stated that it I feel this is now a chronic sympathetic looping that is very tough to get out of unless you somehow "rewire" your brain, stifling the sympathetic NS while stimulating the parasympathetic NS.  For some, this can happen quickly, but this hasn't been my case.

One can get the sympathetic NS fired up for many reasons, physical as well as emotional, or, as we know, from benzos, but when it persists for a very long time, it gets stuck in that excitatory loop and the otherwise normal calming effect of the parasympathetic system, is unavailable. 

That's why the DNRS program has proven so helpful.  It teaches you how to get back into the parasympathetic arena and to try to cut off all of the now typical sympathetic firings over every minute issue, whether it be people, sounds, lights, tastes, smells, the daily barrage of the nightly news,  etc.    This all seems like common sense but unless one can establish a methodical, constant way to do this, as with this program, or some other program, for me, it just wasn't happening.   

So, within reason, I pretty much attribute most of any persistent bizarre symptoms to this sympathetic looping overload and have stopped running to doctors and "experts" as I did early on.  It is all limbic system dysfunction, after such a long time.

Terry and Builder, thanks for your input.

BT

I believe in the limbic impairment. I believe my symptoms have become chronic, but that isn't to say that they will always be with me.

I have the DNRS program, but my mind is still all over the place. I cannot focus enough on anything yet. But I have seen all the videos. I think it's a good program, but for now, I'm seeing a trauma therapist (I have a lot of medical trauma and in fact just got out of 4 days in the hospital for terribly low sodium) to deal with the stress.

Good to know that you are following the DNRS program!!!  :thumbsup:

I meant to respond further on this thread, but was following the DNRS protocol, and steered clear of BB for awhile.  BT is spot on on his comments. 

Also, I committed to daily DNRS around Thanksgiving, and am 1000% better than I was back then.  I don't want to jynx it by talking like that, but serious improvement and feeling much better.  I have to do it every morning, when I wake up at 3-4am, and am lying in bed with agitation / anxiety.  It gets it out of the way for the day and am able to fall back asleep afterwards.  Was definitely not able to do that for the last 18 months or so...

I hope people on this forum catch onto it. 

Ditto, Cessna! I only pop back on here very occasionally now to see if people are finding out about the DNRS. I can’t say enough about it! It has given me my life back and allowed me to do things I haven’t been able to do in ages! I can even eat foods with alcohol in it again- like vodka, Marsala and scampi sauces. It is hard to quantify but if I had to put a number to it, I’d say I’ve had a 75% improvement in the 5 months I’ve been practicing. I personally believe now that all benzo withdrawal really is, is a limbic system impairment. I would urge anyone who has the cognitive capabilities to give it a shot.

I will also say that you have to be very dedicated. I do the steps daily for anywhere from 1.5 hours to 2.5 hours depending on the type of day I’m having. The improvements have been miraculous! I won’t be coming back on again for a while bc the program has you steer away from talk of symptoms and illness but I hope this program can help others as much as it has helped me. I really feel it’s a game changer for this community.

Happy healing!

Hope

Ditto, Cessna! I only pop back on here very occasionally now to see if people are finding out about the DNRS. I can’t say enough about it! It has given me my life back and allowed me to do things I haven’t been able to do in ages! I can even eat foods with alcohol in it again- like vodka, Marsala and scampi sauces. It is hard to quantify but if I had to put a number to it, I’d say I’ve had a 75% improvement in the 5 months I’ve been practicing. I personally believe now that all benzo withdrawal really is, is a limbic system impairment. I would urge anyone who has the cognitive capabilities to give it a shot.

 

I will also say that you have to be very dedicated. I do the steps daily for anywhere from 1.5 hours to 2.5 hours depending on the type of day I’m having. The improvements have been miraculous! I won’t be coming back on again for a while bc the program has you steer away from talk of symptoms and illness but I hope this program can help others as much as it has helped me. I really feel it’s a game changer for this community.

 

Happy healing!

 

Hope

Following..... RST

This has to be a tough thread to follow, as the protocol for DNRS is to steer 100% clear of talking about symptoms. Which would mean no posting, no and no bb   There are definitely some positives to bb, so a little cheating is not too bad.  My coach got into talking about symptoms, and recommended doing a DRNS round right after we finished talking to cover up use of the old pathways.  makes sense. 

I can now notice, and am pretty sure I can sort of 'feel' in my mind when I am using 'old pathways' (anxiety, aggitation, cognitive fog, etc) vs 'new pathways' (window, feeling like old self).  If you are in a wave, sit and do a solid DNRS round and gets me back on track. 

It is tough to get a good round in sometimes, when symptoms flare up.  But eventually if you keep going through it, forcing it, etc., it will finally take hold in the mind and happens, and then you are glad you did it.  The brain is reconnecting.

I  thought I'd chime in here again after over a year. I had been doing the DNRS program daily for  2+ years and it has been very helpful. 4 months ago, however, I saw a chiropractic functional neurologist. They do not do any manipulations but are neurologists utilizing alternative treatments. MRIs, VNG scans, etc. Anyway, it has been very good after a 2-3 month rocky start.  Brain MRIs found that my amygdala was overpowering my hippocampus so I do daily brain exercises to strengthen that part of my brain, along with an anti-inflammatory diet, and very low dose supplements to support my various deficiencies, gradually building up the doses.

While still waking up 1-2 times, I now sleep a total of 7-9 hours and feel much less anxiety and all the other symptoms I'd been having.  I think that this has been the best overall thing, other than the DNRS program.  I think that continuing with this will eventually bring me to normalcy finally.

Anyway, if any of you are still following this thread, I thought I'd share what has been working for me.

Good luck to all of you.

BT.

The brain exercises are based on the findings of the brain MRI I did prior to everything.  They stimulate the lower performing areas of my brain to hopefully regrow the hippocampus in size which is now apparently overwhelmed by my amygdala.

Everyone's is different but I do 3 exercises for 15 minutes daily involving waling sideways while looking at my thumb, moving my head in a certain direction, while moving my fingers in the opposite direction, and looking at dots on a wall chart 4 to the left and 11 to the right.  IT definitely stimulates my brain as I had an immediate increase in symptoms until I cut back on the number of times I would do these.

It's still a work in progress and I do have ups and downs, but things are definitely changing, sometimes, other times, not so much.  A work in progress.