Survey about Liquid Tapering

For anyone who has done a liquid taper, can you share your experience by answering two questions:

 

(1) Did you make a fresh batch every day OR Did you save the mixture and use it for several days?

(2) How successful was the liquid taper for you?

 

 

1. Sometimes make a weeks worth of V at a time using boiled water and 2ml 80% vodka per mg of V. No problems with storage as long as it's in a dark bottle and kept cool. I have read that light will degrade the solution hence the brown bottles but if you're storing it in the fridge I wouldn't think it matters.

 

2. Early days but I completed my first 0.5mg reduction in October and will be starting my daily drops again tomorrow to remove another 0.5mg. I'm feeling the reductions a bit with some transient anxiety and a few sleep issues but I'm out and about doing diy jobs on the house but nothing too strenuous. In late October I managed a long weekend in my place in Cornwall and have spent time out with my camera(I'm a wildlife photographer). This is also my 2nd or 3rd time around on a benzo and I've spent the last 2 years coming off of some unpleasant drugs so my CNS has taken a battering.

In a nutshell I've remained functional with a bit of discomfort. If anyone is sad enough to want to see my phtography work pm me for a link

For anyone who has done a liquid taper, can you share your experience by answering two questions:

 

(1) Did you make a fresh batch every day OR Did you save the mixture and use it for several days?

I make 500 mL at a time, which lasts 6 or 7 days. 

 

The first solutions were 0.01 mg/mL, and I reduced the dosage to the point where I was at 0.8 mg per day. At that point I started making 0.008 mg/mL solutions, and reduce the dosage til I got to 0.6 mg per day. Now I'm making 0.006 mg/mL solutions, and reducing the dosage with that. I hit kind of a wall between 0.8 mg and 0.7 mg per day, but then when I passed through it I can suddenly reduce no problem, so I am just going to keep reducing with my 0.006 mg/mL solution til I have problems with it.

 

(2) How successful was the liquid taper for you?

It's going really well.  Like I said, I hit a bit of a wall between 0.8 mg per day and 0.7 mg per day. But once I got through that I've been able to reduce pretty quickly. In fact I am speeding up my taper.

Hi Bob7

 

Have a look here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=200707.msg2606888#msg2606888

 

Hope it answers your 2nd question.

Hi Bob7

 

Have a look here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=200707.msg2606888#msg2606888

 

Hope it answers your 2nd question.

Hi Jim,

I read all 50 responses - very good survey - I think surveys like this teach the community effectively.  You wrote it up very well.

 

In my survey, I am trying to get to the bottom of the question "does benzo stay in solution after adding water".

 

The chemistry is clear that given 80% alcohol you can dissolve 5 mg benzo in just a few mL of alcohol. 

My concern is, after diluting with water, the percent alcohol will drop below 30%.  The Benzo Solubility curve I have seen shows benzo will come out of solution at such a low alcohol percentage.

 

This means, if someone keeps their batch for days, it will become more of a suspension than a solution.  If this is true, we need to be telling people they MUST shake and stir vigorously and then quickly measure out each dose.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

 

 

Hi Bob7

 

In most pharma prepared solutions I happened to read, either manufacturers use ethanol (alcohol) or a combination of polyethylene glycol and propylene glycol to dissolve benzo and make it uniformly part of the solution. I also read that the best dissolution with alcohol can be obtained at about 80%-90% ethanol (20%-10% water) and 1 ml would suffice to dissolve 1 mg of benzo. As commercial Vodka contains only 40% ethanol (60% water), it is recommended to use Vodka twice in ml to dissolve the benzo dose in mg (Eg: 2 ml of Vodka for 1 mg of benzo).

 

 

Having said that, once the benzo has been dissolved in alcohol, it no longer exists under the form of solid powder. The drug ceases to exist standalone as each of its particle has merged with the alcohol molecules and the whole has become a third distinct material that is a new solution. At this state, it would be nearly impossible to reverse back to its initial solid state. Whether water is added after to dilute and make up the right solution won't change it.

 

My concern is, after diluting with water, the percent alcohol will drop below 30%.

Or even lower I would say. But again at this stage benzo does no longer exist but already completely "fusioned" in alcohol.

 

Thanks Jim-I think you convinced me-I’m was just trying to reconcile what I recall from chem lab when I saw molecules coming out of solution such as when temperature drops or liquid evaporates or the ratio of solvent to solute changes.  I suppose since the number of grams of alcohol are the same it doesn’t matter that were dilute with water. I could buy into that.  I have a test going in our lab with some leftover medication.

Having said that, once the benzo has been dissolved in alcohol, it no longer exists under the form of solid powder. The drug ceases to exist standalone as each of its particle has merged with the alcohol molecules and the whole has become a third distinct material that is a new solution. At this state, it would be nearly impossible to reverse back to its initial solid state. Whether water is added after to dilute and make up the right solution won't change it.

 

:thumbsup: :

For anyone who has done a liquid taper, can you share your experience by answering two questions:

 

(1) Did you make a fresh batch every day OR Did you save the mixture and use it for several days?

(2) How successful was the liquid taper for you?

 

1) The first day may have been a fresh batch 1 pill trial. Then I believe I made batches, in a clear plastic 100ml container with vodka/water/valium 3- 5  2mg tablets, let it

sit on counter and took from that batch my dose--no cutting--just a stabilizing equivalent dose.

I also would stir it, then back and forth it. I rinsed any dosing plastic container I used but I did not rinse my syringe to drink. Hmmm. Did enough escape me from all my

liquid micro tapering efforts?

2)Not successful. The more days I went the worse it got. The first few days I was pretty sure it was working.

This was in Sep, '18. I also did Pam's(Diaz a Pam) similar liquid valium micro taper many years ago. It was painful from 6mg to almost 4mg. We were doing 1mg(cutting 2mg tablet) with only 1ml vodka I think. She got thru it pretty well. It was the old pull and discard method.

 

If making a daily batch and rinsing syringe and everything well would make a big difference would be great. Should one also only use a small amount of tablet to dissolve?

That gets a little tricky. With 2mg serated valium tablets, you'd be cutting 1mg, like I did several years ago. It's doable.

 

Thanks for your work on this Bob7. Thanks for caring and using your skills to help.

 

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