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32 days at 1/4 mg of clonazepam & my symptoms are not improving


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My starting dose was 1mg daily, (1/2mg am and pm) I've  been making a 1/8 mg cut every three weeks. Have done ok until my most recent 1/8 mg cut. I've been at 1/4 mg total for 32 days and I'm not stabilizing. I don't know how much more my body can tolerate, I can barely function. It seems like after one month my symptoms would be better but they are not. I need advice about possibly increasing my dose a little so I can stabilize. Or should I keep sticking it out at this dose. Once I'm stable I plan to use the titration method. Thank you so much for any advice and support.  :D
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My personal experience with Clonazepam is: I was unsuccessful cutting and you are cutting a lot.  Possibly too much for you. I would go up to half and see how you feel. If you still feel bad go back up to 3/4 or even start over using the titration method. You cannot taper too quickly which I found out the hard way.  Hope this helps.  :smitten:
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Yes you need to be stable.Clonazepam is so potent liquid taper is the way to go imho.Also when you liquid taper you know exactly your dose unless your weighing it on a jewlers scale.I hope more people thats been here longer than me will chime in.Good luck on your journey your almost to the finish line.
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I have said this before but feel the need to state it again; I am sometimes glad that I knew nothing about tapering correctly because I am not sure I would have had the willpower to get through it knowing that I could updose.  Yes, my rapid detox was insanely stupid and painful and no doubt has left me with protracted symptoms but if I had to be in Acute longer than I was (which was a good 6 weeks) then I am not sure I would have made it.  SO - you are looking for opinions and mine is to jump if this dose is keeping you sick.  Many will disagree.  But I am here to say that I survived and am fairly functional after 4 1/2 months (still bad waves but over-all at 75%).  Just offering what I can based on the fact that we were on the same med with the same dose.
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Thank you so so much for the advice and support. I will most likely go up in my dose a small amount and hopefully I will stabilize. I plan to start a slow liquid titration after I've been stable for a while.

 

 

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Hi Lanuaria

 

I laid down your taper figures in a spreadsheet. Here how it looks like:

 

zfSdxsv.png

 

Although you hold 3 weeks after each cut, with the last cut from 0.375 to the current 0.250 it was a large 33% cut at the moment. Symptoms are reasonably expected. The general recommendations are to reduce between 5-10% every 10-14 days to minimize withdrawal symptoms. It would be even better if the cut is made on a daily basis.

 

I plan to start a slow liquid titration after I've been stable for a while

Excellent decision.

 

Wish you stabilize soon.

 

:hug:

 

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Hi Jim Hawk, thank you very much for your insights and for giving me taper figures in a spreadsheet. I'd like to start using the liquid method right away so I can get accurate dosing. Would you suggest I go back to 3/4 daily and see if I can stabilize at that dose? And how often during the day I should dose?

🙏😊

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Hi Lanuaria :smitten:

 

Would you suggest I go back to 3/4 daily and see if I can stabilize at that dose?

I have read a number of posts about the intriguing updose question. It appears that in only very few cases updoses can really bring benefits. It's when your updose occurs within one or two weeks max from the last dose change when the level of drug in your bloodstream is still high. It varies from individuals but it rarely gives good results when one month or more have elapsed since the last cut. In those cases, by updosing taperer believes he will obtain the same stability before the cut. Nothing like that will happen as his CNS has undergone for one month the self adjustment to the lower drug conditions, has adapted to it more or less successfully and now the equilibrium has definitely shifted. Not only the updose does not relieve the withdrawal symptoms but for some people, it seems that going back on their previous dose too late can actually make symptoms worse. In this case the reason is that as your CNS is now over sensitized following the last few rude cuts it is extremely vulnerable and whatever change you make, be it an up or down change of dose or a new med, will add to the destabilization of your CNS resulting in symptoms.

 

What to do then? Usually buddies hold until the storm passes and the CNS catches up with the cut. It might take 3-4 weeks. Some others hold 2-3 months before symptoms start to subside. Then they resume the taper.

 

how often during the day I should dose?

Clonazepam has a long elimination half-life. Elimination half-life refers to how long it takes for half of a single dose of a drug to leave our organism. For clonazepam, its elimination half-life ranges from 30 to 40 hours. This means it will take between one to two days for 50% of Clonazepam to leave our system. Although there are buddies who take it twice a day, most users me included take it once a day with no inter-dose withdrawal.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

 

:hug:

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My personal experience with Clonazepam is: I was unsuccessful cutting and you are cutting a lot.  Possibly too much for you. I would go up to half and see how you feel. If you still feel bad go back up to 3/4 or even start over using the titration method. You cannot taper too quickly which I found out the hard way.  Hope this helps.  :smitten:

 

  So you had to quit after your April cut or have you been holding?

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Hi Lanuria  :smitten:

 

When you prepare your solution, you can make a solution for more days. Example:

- 2 x 1 mg tablets + 4 ml of Vodka (40% alcohol) + 16 ml of water will give you 20 ml of solution, 0.1 mg/ml (that means in 1 ml of solution there is 0.1 mg of Clonazepam). This will suffice for 8 days. Store it in a glass recipient kept away from direct sunlight.

 

When you take your dose, you use syringes, 10 ml or 1 ml (most used) tuberculin syringe. You draw up your dose and drink it. Whatever remains in the recipient will be used for next time. Like with any other liquid medication, you don't have to dispose anything. When the prepared solution is no longer sufficient, you can eventually clean the recipient and prepare a new batch of tablets and Vodka, wait for them to dissolve (15 minutes), stir and add water to make the right volume.

 

Do you have any idea how many ml you will have to draw up to get 1/4 mg? If not, generate the report from here (Liquid Taper): http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

:hug:

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Hi Jim Hawk,

Yesterday I crushed 1/2 mg with a mortar & pestle and added water a few times to get all of it out, I then transferred it to a 100ml cylinder and poured 50ml out and drank it. My concern also was about some of the medicine settling to the bottom.

When I prepare the solution and draw it up with syringes as you suggest, do I still use a 100ml cylinder?

Thank you for helping me with this and for the taper plan link.

I appreciate your help and advice very much!  :)

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Hi Lanuaria :smitten:

 

I crushed 1/2 mg with a mortar & pestle and added water a few times to get all of it out

Like many Benzodiazepines Clonazepam is NOT solvable in water. Unless you start with a prescribed liquid Rx, a solvent (E.g: Vodka) will be needed to dissolve benzo in tablets. Only when the drug is dissolved you ought to add water to make up the right volume.

 

I then transferred it to a 100ml cylinder and poured 50ml out and drank it

Following point 1 I suspect what you have taken did not contain or just only a part of the needed med.

 

Although a number of users by looking at video in Youtube do that, what you described is NOT the method we here are trying to communicate. As in my previous note, you will possibly prepare your solution for a number of days. Then with a syringe you draw up the desired quantity and leave the unused solution in the bottle for next use. There is nothing to discard.

 

My concern also was about some of the medicine settling to the bottom.

It is normal that some solid particles will remain at the bottom or float at the surface. They are just excipients (coating, disintegrator, filler, binder, colorant...) and don't require any special attention. Benzo as main ingredient has been dissolved in the alcohol-based solution.

 

When I prepare the solution and draw it up with syringes as you suggest, do I still use a 100ml cylinder?

NO. The cylinder would be useful ONLY during the preparation of the solution.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

 

:hug:

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Hello!! I was wondering if you are sticking to klonopin for a certain reason rather than crossing over to Valium? Valium comes in the much smaller doses, easier to do a nice gradual taper on without so much math  :angel:
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Hi Tumble Weed, my Dr is not understanding about benzo dependence. He doesn't believe the difficulties I experienced are being caused by my body's dependence on clonazepam. So he isn't willing to switch me to Valium. I've also heard that some have difficulty switching to Valium, so I'm going to proceed with the tapering protocol that Jim Hawk has suggested.

Thank you for your concern.  :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Lanuaria :smitten:

 

When it comes to draw up less than 1 ml of solution during liquid taper, 1 ml syringe is necessary. There are 2 types of 1 ml syringes you can find at local pharmacies or on Amazon: Insulin syringes with 50 divisions, tuberculin syringes with 100 divisions. Both will work fine.

 

Example: you need to take 1.15 ml of solution for your daily dose. You first draw up one full syringe  for 1 ml. Then 0.15 ml for the remaining quantity. This second part is where the 1 ml syringe is particularly required.

 

If you try to use a 5 ml syringe or worse a 10 ml syringe then the precision will not be enough and you risk to take more or take less than what you intended.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

 

:hug:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Jim Hawk,

I don't believe I've asked this before. I'm wondering if it is helpful or will makes wd easier if I take my .24 ml daily dose of clonazepam in two doses instead of one? I very much appreciate your advice/input. I've been using your recommended liquid titration method for almost 2 weeks.

Thank you,

Lanuaria 😊

 

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Hi Lanuaria :smitten:

 

When someone decides to split a benzo dose to more than one, the main reason is to prevent inter-dose withdrawal. This frequently occurs with short half-life benzo like Alprazolam, Lorazepam when symptoms might kick in between 2 consecutive doses. Clonazepam and Diazepam with their 30 hours and 100 hours elimination half-life do not need to be split for the above reasons.

 

Nevertheless there are buddies who did the split. The intention is mainly to address specific needs like insomnia or daily anxiety. The dose is then distributed accordingly, some more here, some less there. But provided the total daily dose remains the same, the change in effect due to these fluctuations would not be relevant.

 

:hug:

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I recently tapered off K as well. I found the .125 dissolving pills helpful for making smaller doses towards the end. Go slowly and try to relax as much as possible: limit caffeine/alcohol, sauna/steamroom, yoga/meditate, exercise, avoid stress, etc.
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Jim Hawk, :D

I take my dose about 4:00 pm each day. I do well in the evening and sleep fairly well. Usually about noon of the following day is when my symptoms become difficult. This is also the time I need to be at work. So maybe taking a third of my dose before work and the rest at the regular time would be helpful?

In chapter ll of professor Ashton's Manual she says that clonazepam is particularly difficult to come off of because it's a high potency drug. She recommends switching to diazepam, but also says some have difficulty switching over. Thoughts??

 

I see that I did ask previously about dosing, sorry 

I appreciate the time you've taken to help me understand this process.

Bless you  :smitten:

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Hi Lanuaria :smitten:

 

maybe taking a third of my dose before work and the rest at the regular time would be helpful?

I would have a try. As some benzo are known to provide sedative effects, I would however keep an eye on how my sleep would be impacted.

 

clonazepam is particularly difficult to come off of because it's a high potency drug

So is Diazepam.

 

She recommends switching to diazepam, but also says some have difficulty switching over. Thoughts??

From many testimonials read in here, people when switched from one to another (Eg: From Clonazepam to Diazepam or vice-versa), following rough symptoms most of them regretted after and wished they hadn't done that. After I have read about Valium taper horror stories I would never ever try to put a grain of it into my mouth.

 

For information, many buddies me included, successfully tapered off Clonazepam with no need to switch to Diazepam.

 

:hug:

 

 

 

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