Advice please! Does this method always work?

I took my first dose of liquid solution this evening, making up a solution using 5 x 0.5mg Clonazepam, 5mls vodka to dissolve and 20mls water to make a 25ml solution.

 

My current dose is 0.44mg so I drew up 4.4mls.

 

I felt fine until I went to bed and got the first time in ages have had heart palpitations and very bad insomnia and mild ‘head cracks’ plus the muscle jerks (much worse tonight).

 

Have I done something wrong? Could it be the vodka in the solution and my body not tolerating it?

 

I’m now really worried I’ve messed up switching to liquid but needed to try and hold at 0.4mg...

 

Any suggestions on what to do would be gratefully received!

For some, liquid can metabolized quicker than tablets. Maybe try taking .25mg in tablet form & the rest of your dose (2.2ml) in liquid form

ThNk you. Does this mean I might not be a good candidate for liquid titration? Or does the body get used to it?

Also, should I updose slightly? I'm feeling quite disheartened because of last night, I was so hoping that this method was going to work out for me…

 

Perhaps I should stick to dry cutting and use a gram scale to reduce? Any advice would be really appreciated. I have two little children I have to care for and need to find a method that won't set me back too much. Thank you so so much.

ThNk you. Does this mean I might not be a good candidate for liquid titration? Or does the body get used to it?

 

 

 

Also, should I updose slightly? I'm feeling quite disheartened because of last night, I was so hoping that this method was going to work out for me…

 

Perhaps I should stick to dry cutting and use a gram scale to reduce? Any advice would be really appreciated. I have two little children I have to care for and need to find a method that won't set me back too much. Thank you so so much.

 

Hi Mermaid2-

 

Sorry you are struggling. It must be difficult trying to raise 2 children while trying to taper. Hang in there, we will help you sort this out...

 

IMHO, liquid titration is by far the easiest method to taper. If done properly, liquid titration should work well for you. I think your 50% reduction in September was simply to much of a drop for you and is more than likely the cause of current symptoms. If possible, maybe consider reinstating to a dose where you can tolerate the symptoms. Once you feel more stable then begin to taper. It is important to find a rate that works for you. Maybe start out at a 5% reduction and see how you feel adjusting taper rate as necessary 

 

 

 

IMHO, liquid titration is by far the easiest method to taper. If done properly, liquid titration should work well for you. I think your 50% reduction in September was simply to much of a drop for you and is more than likely the cause of current symptoms. 

 

:thumbsup: :)

Thank you both so very much for your replies and for all your support. (Apologies if a similar message to this comes up a couple of times - I’m having trouble posting messages today, it seems).

 

I truly appreciate you helping me through this! Last night I tried 3/4 pill plus 0.73 liquid and I slept 7 hours and didn’t have the problems I had the night before. So I will stick to this for the next week or so and then, all being well, will start the daily drop to see how things go.

 

Thank you so very much again.

 

Hi Mermaid2

 

I slept 7 hours and didn’t have the problems I had the night before.

I'm just delighted! Go slow and you will heal in less time then you may expect.

 

Thank you Jim!

 

I am minding my expectations and I am realistic that things will be up and down. But I will go slow and keep the faith.

 

Your help and support is just phenomenal. Appreciate it so much.

 

Thank you both so very much for your replies and for all your support. (Apologies if a similar message to this comes up a couple of times - I’m having trouble posting messages today, it seems).

 

I truly appreciate you helping me through this! Last night I tried 3/4 pill plus 0.73 liquid and I slept 7 hours and didn’t have the problems I had the night before. So I will stick to this for the next week or so and then, all being well, will start the daily drop to see how things go.

 

Thank you so very much again.

 

 

Awesome news...thanks for sharing!!!! Once you get in the rhythm, things should level out & tapering should become more predictable & easier for you. 

 

Wishing you a smooth taper & speedy recovery 

Hi Mermaid2! 

Glad to see you are doing better with the liquid. I have the same issues like you when I switch all liquid. In my case anxiety went up. I'm tapering 0.180 mg  of K as of now with liquid and I started to mix with pills when I was at 0.375.  I used liquid to reduce one of the doses while on pills. So far after 2 months I got use to it !The alternatives to liquid are not very practical. You can't cut pills at a certain point and using a scale is though and time consuming. I thought too that I was not going to be able to do it but I'm already half way since I started. Also I convinced myself and, is a fact ,that there is not other method to do it slow. If you continuous using pills and liquid be aware that clonazepan smallest pill size comes in 0.125 mg  ODT pill (oral disolved). It would be better than cut 1/4 of 0.5 mg pill.

Hope you keep doing GOOD! 

Regards

Oh dear, I’m sorry to report I’m having problems again. I can’t seem to fall asleep with heart rate faster. I haven’t had this problem since being on the clonazepam, even with my drops so far...so I can only assume I’m very sensitive to the liquid.

 

What should I do? Should I consider switching to dry cutting using a gram scale? I’m just afraid of making things worse if I keep persevering with this method but I have SO wanted it to work...

 

Any advice would be invaluable.

 

Can any of you lovely folks help. I’m feeling so much worse today. I slept for about 2 hours last night, had severe jolts all night and symptoms were worse. It’s definitely the liquid as I had no problem with being on 0.45mg a week prior to this and was holding at 0.5mg for several weeks with success before this.

 

I’m guessing my body just doesn’t like the liquid.

 

Shall I reinstate to 0.5mg dry and try and go the dry cut using a gram scale? I’m so disappointed I can’t tell you...so worried now about what to do. I don’t want to make things worse by continuing with liquid if it’s not suiting me.

 

Thank you so much in advance for helping...

 

Hi Mermaid2

 

It’s definitely the liquid as I had no problem with being on 0.45mg a week prior to this

If you are certain that it is the liquid, although I'm perplex that a minuscule volume of 0.73 ml (=0.073 mg) could have such an impact, I propose for tonight you just take your 0.45 mg in dry tablet. If after one week you stabilize and can sleep all right all the nights then start to buy a precision gram scale (Amazon 20-25 USD) to direct taper.

 

This method will not be hassle free especially when you weigh out tiny amounts of benzo.

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I know, me too, I’m totally perplexed by this as well. For some reason it has definitely ramped up my symptoms at night. Unfortunately I don’t have any more 0.45mg pills - only 0.5mg and 4mg pills so I could only try and cut by eye to 0.4375mg but that may make things even worse.

 

I really want the liquid method to work  :'( I’m just not sure what to do now. What do you think?

 

Thank you so much

 

Hi Mermaid2

 

I really want the liquid method to work

I wonder if you happened during the last few weeks to have a glass of beer or wine? I don't believe so but if it was the case, did you feel any symptoms? Can it be that your CNS over-sensitized by the use of other psychotropic drugs in the past (Sertraline, Citalopram, Quitiepine, Pregabalin) simply cannot tolerate alcohol whatever small quantity it is?

 

and 4mg pills

What's the brand of this special format tablet?

 

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

I haven’t had any alcohol in months - not since before all the drugs. I too did wonder if it was the alcohol that was causing me problems...

 

The 0.4mg pills were made up by a compounding pharmacy in the Netherlands called ‘Taperingstrip.org’. They send out strips of dose reductions but even these are quite big eg you start at 0.5 and go down to 0.45 for 5 days, then 0.4mg etc. So you can see the jumps are quite big. I was ok on the 0.45 pills though but now I have run out of them I didn’t want to make the next jump to 0.4 as I felt it was too big. Hence trying the liquid option. However, when I made my liquid, the pills were all 0.5mg but not from the same batch - 2 were from the compounding pharmacy and the other 3 from the brand I usually take. I wonder if that could have an impact on the liquid? But as you say, it was such a tiny dose and I took the 3/4 tablet from my usual brand.

 

Hi Mermaid2

 

I was ok on the 0.45 pills though but now I have run out of them

Would it be possible to cut a 0.4 mg pill to 2 so each part will have 0.2 mg? Then do the same with a 0.5 mg pill so each part will have 0.25 mg. You can take one half of each (0.20 mg + 0.25 mg) for a total of 0.45 mg and see if you can tolerate them tonight?

 

Hi Mermaid2

 

Just a curiosity, at what time did you take your liquid+tablet dose during the day?

 

Hi Jim,

 

I just take once per day at about 8pm. So I took the 3/4 tablet then plus the 0.73 liquid and my Mirtazipine. I’ve always done it like this.

 

From the strips I have seen I can make up 5 nights worth of 0.45mg using 2 x 0.4mg pills and a 0.05mg pill nightly. Should I try this until I can get the Rx solution maybe and have a go again with that?

 

 

HI Mermaid2

 

As you think liquid doesn't work, let's please make sure that liquid is the real culprit. Let's go for 0.45 mg/night dry tablet only for one week and see if you can sleep all right. During this time, order already a gram scale (Amazon) in case we need to proceed with Direct Taper right after:

 

http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/img/Gram%20scale.jpg

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thank you so much, I truly appreciate you being there for me and helping me through this. Ok, I will do the 0.45mg for a week and order the scales. Will let you know how the next few nights go with pills only.

 

I’m so grateful again for you being there for me and helping me out so much!

 

 

I’ve just ordered the scales but they may not be delivered until the 19th Oct. That’s the soonest they could do. So bit quite sure what I do in the meantime...I need to try and work out how I can make a 0.075mg to add to 3/4 tablets once I run out of the 0.45mg combinations...

Hi Mermaid

 

What is the brand of your Clonazepam? Is it the brand name or a generic?

 

The switch from brand to generic has actually caused many issues to taperers as read from different boards. Benzo from different brands (Teva, Mylan, Actavis, Accord, etc...) actually impacts users differently at the same dose. In many cases there's seem to be an important drop in effect. If we think that there's 10% variation allowed on generic brands then it is quite possible that someone not having problem with brand name product starts to get them now with generic. It happens with more and more buddies. For information when Clonazepam Teva stopped, symptoms were so numerous that buddies have created a Support group to address the issue: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204645.0.

 

Hi Jim,

 

It’s called Auden McKenzie (Pharma Devision) Ltd.

 

I’m not sure what the Netherlands one is as it’s made in their compounding pharmacy, so it won’t be the same. I didn’t seem to have an issue switching from the Auden 0.5mg one to the 0.45mg Netherlands one though. My symptoms seemed to get worse when I took the liquid but as I said, I used a combination of both brands in the liquid as I didn’t think it made a difference.

 

I don’t have enough Auden pills to make up another liquid as I only have 3 0.5mg pills left. Unless I used 2.5mg to try and make half the liquid - but then I’d still be taking the Netherlands pill I in pill form if that makes sense.