Newbie needs help planning compounded liquid clonazepam taper

Hi Benzo buddies - I have a psychiatrist willing to work with me on a slow  taper. I want to taper a gentle 10% of each dose (per Ashton) a month. I am starting at .4mg of clonazepam and want to take .2mg per day as a compounded pill and do a second taper dose of .2mg by liquid taper. I tried using the on line "benzo.alwaysdata.net/" benzo taper plan but don't understand what the "planned reduction quantity" which automatically fills in 0.02 means. Is this getting me to the 10% per month? Should I just delete the 0.02 and put in the percentage I want? I tried that and it gives me a much longer taper than the 0.02. Any suggestions for putting a taper schedule together would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hi Heroic108

 

Here is the explanation of the fixed quantity reduction vs Fixed Percent reduction while using the online planner at: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

The application has been designed so the 2 fields Quantity and Percent are mutually exclusive. Clear and enter value in one field will disable the other. They refer to 2 different philosophies of taper:

- Fixed reduction quantity per period of days (mg/days)

A same and unchanged quantity will be reduced from the daily dose throughout the taper duration. The fixed reduction quantity method, also known as symptoms-based taper method, is easy to understand and to apply. It can offer a shorter taper duration compared to the fixed reduction percent.

The dark side of this approach is that by the end phase (~1/3) of the taper, a number of patients especially those who tapered from a large dose of benzo become more vulnerable to the same reduction. The risks to feel symptoms due to a fast taper is real. The reduction quantity must be therefore adapted when symptoms occur. In the Taper Plan application, when there is 1/3 of the road to go before the jump dose, the option "Attenuated ending" adapts the reduction quantity to 1/3 of the initial cut. This option works only when the reduction is based on fixed quantity as opposed to fixed percent.

 

- Fixed reduction percent per period of days (%/days)

A same and unchanged percent (over a period of days) translated in quantity will be reduced from the daily dose throughout the taper duration. As the daily dose decreases, so does the reduction quantity proportionally. That implies a very low reduction evolution, a longer taper duration but it will likely raise less symptoms. This method is "gentler" from a symptoms viewpoint but seems to be less popular in the community as everybody wants benzo off their body as soon as possible even by paying with symptoms.

 

don't understand what the "planned reduction quantity" which automatically fills in 0.02 means.

To facilitate users while filling in the form a default quantity corresponding to 5%/14 reduction is proposed as default. If you want to use 10% (or other values) in Fixed Quantity reduction, just double the quantity proposed value. Should you want to use 10% in Fixed Percent Reduction, clear first the quantity field and set the percent field to 10.

 

Hope I answered your question.

Thanks so much Jim. I want a gentle taper and have put in 10%/14 for my .4 dose. Is this a reasonable amount for a gentle taper that will not take years or am I being either too conservative or over ambitious? This gives me about a year to taper. I am not sure if I should use an ora-plus liquid taper alone or combine with pills. Any opinions? I was only on a low dose of clonazapam for 2 weeks, beginning in mid-august, before the withdrawal so I must have a sensitive system.

 

Also there is the question of taking one dose a day or splitting doses - which I may have to experiment with. Right now I take .375 clonazepam in the morning and .025 at night. I have decent days and some not good days even on this holding dose. I am waiting for my psychiatrist to return mid October from vacation to begin the taper. Any advice would be really appreciated. Many thanks. Your explanation was very helpful.

 

Heroic 108

 

 

Hi Heroic108

 

I was only on a low dose of clonazapam for 2 weeks, beginning in mid-august, before the withdrawal so I must have a sensitive system.

The period you are under benzo is very SHORT. Take this chance to get out of the mess soon enough while benzo has not established its roots yet in your CNS.

 

This gives me about a year to taper.

FAR too long.

 

Right now I take .375 clonazepam in the morning and .025 at night.

0.025 mg is the suggested jump dose for Clonazepam to say it is very small. You can of course divide your 0.4 mg to 2 x 0.2 mg for instance if you have anxiety issues during the day and insomnia during the night. Or you can just use it during the night in one dose like I did for years. The long elimination half-life of Clonazepam (30-40 hours) will smooth out any fluctuation of the drug in the bloodstream during 2 consecutive doses. Inter-dose withdrawal symptoms are not expected and will be mild if any.

 

I am not sure if I should use an ora-plus liquid taper alone or combine with pills.

People combine liquid with tablets when there is a risk of symptoms by suddenly switching ALL tablets to liquid. Your dose being so small and the taper time has to be kept short enough, the only-liquid would be fine.

 

When you refer to ORA-plus, you were thinking about a "suspension" solution where benzo powder in solid dust will be distributed within the solution. Most pharmacies can prepare this compound solution. Other pharmacies can use ethanol (alcohol) or a combination of polyethylene glycol and propylene glycol to dissolve benzo and make it uniformly part of the solution. A number of buddies reported a drop of effects when "suspension" solution is used.

 

I am waiting for my psychiatrist to return mid October from vacation to begin the taper.

In your shoes I would start RIGHT NOW. Do not give benzo that advantage to whack you.

 

10%/14 for my .4 dose. Is this a reasonable amount for a gentle taper that will not take years or am I being either too conservative or over ambitious?

I have been under 0.5 mg Clonazepam for 3.5 years and it took me 9 months to taper off with one reinstatement in the middle. You are just a couple of weeks under benzo, don't let the chance escape you. While I do not recommend a cold turkey interruption, I think you could go faster than the average in here. I therefore propose you go for 20-25% every 2 weeks with daily taper (0.08 or 0.10 in Quantity). In about 2 months time you are off. If you feel symptoms while tapering you can either hold until they pass or slow down the reduction pace. Or both.

 

Wish you a good start and a smooth journey towards freedom.

Hello Jim Hawk,

I wanted to ask if you can clarify something you wrote. You’ve been a great help in combing through the myriad of conflicting opinions.

You wrote that it took you 9 months to taper a 0.5 dose of Clonazepam which you were on for 3.5 years. I have now been on 0.4mg. since August 9th. Actually, my history is 8/9-8/18 – .3mg to .5mg Clonazepam daily. 8/20 stopped cold turkey. 8/20 – 8/23 full on withdrawal with many classic symptoms. 8/23 located psychiatrist who reinstated me to .5 mg a day. 9/1 to now - .4mg. daily hold.

According to your recommendations it would take 53 to 66 days for a 0.10 or 0.08 fixed taper respectively or 135 to 174 days for a 25% or 20% taper, respectively. Actually, I want to start right away by dividing my small night dose of 0.025 into quarters and removing 1/4th each night. Both % plans have roughly that type of cut.  Knowing my history and that I have a Benzo sensitivity – which liquid compounding plan would you do?

I think the small cuts on the 0.025mg will be a good test to see how my body reacts. Again, I'm relying on your own experience and, from reading the BB site, it looks like you are one of the people who are respected and relied upon by so many to answer these types of questions. I would have to say the my psychiatrist thought I should be tapering slowly but in line with what you are recommending - if not quicker - and this was when I first went to him - about a month ago. He agreed to have me hold even this long for two reasons. 1) I had a radical and traumatic 3 days of cold turkey and he respected that I had been traumatized by the experience (haven't we all?) and second because he knew that he was about to leave on vacation and that I would have no professional to talk to with questions or to discuss symptoms.

Since my psychiatrist returns mid October I will not have access to a compounded dose to continue and I am hesitant to fool around until mid October with me doing the liquid method on the remaining .375mg’s on my own and then suddenly changing to the compound pharmacy.

I guess this article has me a little rattled about going too quickly -http://benzoinfo.com/2018/08/10/but-rather-slowly-taper/  I realize that the author was dealing with polypharmacy and many misguided physicians who made things worse – so I am still in a different boat. I guess I just wanted again to check again to make sure your recommended tapers are not too quick and I have no psychiatrist to ask.

As an aside, my psychiatrist has practiced for 40 years and is a long time Buddhist practitioner. He is decidedly not a pill pusher but starts patients off with talk therapy, acupuncture, homeopathy, meditation, etc. With his permission, I will put his name down on the “withdrawal Projects’ empathetic doctor list.

What is your take on all this?

Again, many, many thanks

Heroic108

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Heroic108

 

my history is 8/9-8/18 – .3mg to .5mg Clonazepam daily. 8/20 stopped cold turkey.

After 9 DAYS use you got withdrawal symptoms following an abrupt interruption of benzo. I have seen nearly the same case not long time ago. A buddie just stopped after more or less one week use and he suffered harrowing ordeal after trying to cut too fast . The general recommendations for benzo use read in here are to not exceed 2-3 weeks to prevent dependency. But for some reasons (benzo new properties?) we have witnessed more and more cases where the damages are seen even with shorter use.

 

8/23 located psychiatrist who reinstated me to .5 mg a day. 9/1 to now - .4mg. daily hold.

Fine.

 

Actually, I want to start right away by dividing my small night dose of 0.025 into quarters and removing 1/4th each night. Both % plans have roughly that type of cut.

You don't need to have 2 different doses where one is as small as 0.025 mg. This would not be useful. It is NOT the type of cut but rather about the minuscule quantity you are focusing your attention on. That tiny quantity is playing no role in your symptoms.

 

Knowing my history and that I have a Benzo sensitivity – which liquid compounding plan would you do?

Use Vodka as solvent to dissolve your tablets. Then use water to make up the right solution, 0.1 mg/ml.

 

I think the small cuts on the 0.025mg will be a good test to see how my body reacts.

It will not. Your body won't feel this tiny cut.

 

I am hesitant to fool around until mid October with me doing the liquid method on the remaining .375mg’s on my own and then suddenly changing to the compound pharmacy.

As your health is at stake, only YOU can decide.

 

my psychiatrist ... is a long time Buddhist practitioner.

We are...two!

 

He is decidedly not a pill pusher but starts patients off with talk therapy, acupuncture, homeopathy, meditation, etc.

I share the same values.

 

What is your take on all this?

You don't loose anything if you try to taper in an APPROPRIATE manner waiting for your psychiatrist to come back. At least you will know what to tell to your doctor. After all if it works then you don't need to ask for pharma compound solution that remains another question mark when it comes to see if it suits you or not.

"Use Vodka as solvent to dissolve your tablets. Then use water to make up the right solution, 0.1 mg/ml"

Thanks again Jim Hawk,

 

I’m will be fully off the 0.025 by tomorrow (out of an abundance of caution).

 

To clarify, I do not have tablets but capsules with a fine powder in them. If I open a .375 capsule and dissolve the contents, using 0.1 mg of a 40% vodka do I then mix this with water to make up 100ml. suspension, stir well, and use this as my daily base as I taper down by withdrawing the appropriate amount – according to the schedule?

 

Only other questions are if I should use 1ml or 2 ml of vodka to dissolve the contents of the capsule and, if I use 2 ml. of the vodka – would it change the amount I am withdrawing from the 100ml solution to make up for the extra ml. of vodka or does the concentration remain the same. I would think it does but this is the time to check – before my first go at it. I will rinse out the 100 mg. vile and the syringe after taking my dose and drink that water separately.

Sound about right?

 

Now that I will be on the .375 dose - does the above method make up the correct ration of 0.1mg/ml as needed for the schedule?

 

Hi Heroic108

 

The smallest quantity of solution by using one capsule:

0.375 mg of benzo powder + 0.75 ml (2 x 0.375) of Vodka 40% + 3 ml water =  3.75 ml solution, 0.1 mg/ml. It would suffice for 1 day.

 

For one week (7 days or whatever number of days) use:

7 x 0.375 mg of benzo powder + 7 x 0.75 ml (2 x 0.375) of Vodka 40% + 7 x 3 ml water = 7 x 3.75 ml solution, 0.1 mg/ml

 

Benzo must be dissolved first in Vodka BEFORE adding water to dilute. Normally 5-10 minutes in Vodka would work fine. Some solid particles will remain at the bottom but they are just excipients (coating, disintegrator, filler, binder, colorant...) and don't require special attention.

 

Prepared solution must be sufficient to cover the daily use or for more days. If properly prepared in a clean environment with clean tools and well kept, a preparation of more days (Eg: one week) could save work and time.

 

How to preserve?

The solution is best kept in a closed jar at room temperature not directly exposed to sun light. Refrigeration is not required although it does not harm.

 

Dispose of unused solution?

The prepared solution is a medication in all aspects. Like with any liquid medication in bottle sold in pharmacy, take the needed volume and let unused solution in bottle for next uses. When drawing up small doses, use an appropriate syringe for better accuracy.

 

Which tools are needed?

- A small glass storage jar with a lid. Re-purposed jelly, salad dressing, pickle/olive etc... will work.

- Syringes in 2 sizes:

  - 10 ml with 50 divisions

  - 1 ml with 50 or 100 divisions (insulin or tuberculin)

 

You can drink directly from the syringe then rinse with water and drink again.

Thanks again Jim Hawk. That makes perfect sense. Amazing how much wrong information and methods I've taken in. You've done a great job clarifying and I hope you don't mind my questions.

 

There are two additional points that I would like to ask.

1) For fractional doses - for example if that days dose is 3.23 - I can either estimate by going to the syringe division just slightly above 3.2 or I can round down (in this case) to 3.2. In other cases if it is a number like 3.27, I can round up to 3.3 or estimate to fill the syringe just under the 3.3 gradient line. Is this what you recommend?

 

2) I take a beta blocker (carvedilol) in low doses. Dr. Ashton and others seemed to think beta blockers were helpful as they slow down the heart and are good for anxiety. In other postings on the BB site there seems to be warnings about taking a beta blocker during tapering or if symptomatic. Do you know any more about this issue?

 

Last - even though my nightly dose of .025 is very small, by cutting it out I have had more middle of the night to next day dose "flu like symptoms". It's hard to say definitively as I have good days and not so good days each week but this may be another sign of my sensitivity to clonazepam. I don't mind these mild symptoms as it may be my body healing during the withdrawal but it may also be an indication to go a little slow - perhaps with the the 20% or 25% taper that you recommend rather that an 0.08 or 0.10 fixed taper. One option would be to try the 0.08 taper and if I become really symptomatic, switch to the more gentle percentage schedule. I realize it's all an individual trial and error process but your take might be helpful.

 

Again, I hope it's okay to continue this question and answer dialog with me recognizing both your kindness and your time/energy constraints.

Sorry, I can't overlook this...

 

There is probably no medicine, supplement, or substance in the world that doesn't have a "warning" or horror story on BB.

 

So the question is, do you feel more confidant in the opinion of a world renowned doctor/researcher, or the advice of some anonymous poster on a message board?

Hi Heroic108

 

for example if that days dose is 3.23

I guess in your example you were talking about 3.23 ml to draw up with a syringe? If it is the case then you will need to use a 1 ml syringe (insulin or tuberculin) with 100 divisions. No problem with 3 ml. For 0.23 ml, you can draw up between 0.22 and 0.24. At this level of precision, you don't need to worry too much especially when the solution has already been diluted to 0.1 mg/ml.

 

I take a beta blocker (carvedilol) in low doses. Dr. Ashton and others seemed to think beta blockers were helpful as they slow down the heart and are good for anxiety. In other postings on the BB site there seems to be warnings about taking a beta blocker during tapering or if symptomatic.

I think it's a good thing that you read different on-the-field experiences from buddies and ask questions. This forum has been world-wide known with contributions from buddies asking questions like you are doing. Many buddies are being miserable because they have trusted their educated doctors. I was one of them and my neurologist was an eminence scientist, one of top sleep specialists of Switzerland. If you go on to read you will see too many of "I wish I had not followed what my doctor told me and had not stopped CT...". About Dr. H. Ashton as world renowned doctor/researcher, I have an infinite respect for her work. Nevertheless I need to say that for many in here her taper pace in certain cases is far too fast for them. By following that pace, many of them have suffered severe withdrawal symptoms. Others have found her cross-over from Klonopin to Valium unnecessary in their cases with symptoms they thought were pretty avoidable. I therefore state here loud that I value the opinion of a simple buddie posting in here the same way I do with a world renowned doctor/researcher who has likely never got the experiences on his/her person.

 

For what I have read through thousands and thousands posts in here, the worst cases of withdrawals very often concern poly-drugged users. Those users have in the past taken one or more benzos, antidepressants, beta-blockers, SSRI, pain meds, sleep meds, opioid... Under normal conditions those meds taken alone may certainly bring its own benefits. When used under benzo they may have unpredictable interaction with rough symptoms turning the taper more complex and longer. Furthermore if used in long term they could create dependency and will need to be tapered later on at their turn.

 

There is however a number of buddies who reported that certain of those meds have been useful to them when taken in low doses and in very short period of a few days. Prolonged after those days, the same meds seems to lose their effects.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

Hi Builder - is your message in regards to beta blockers or ? - I'm not planning on stopping them as they keep my blood pressure in check and I've been on them of years. Unless I can find some actual clinical evidence that they interfere with titrating down or cause increased withdrawal difficulties (which I've not found and and may be an individual thing anyway) - I will keep on them. I think you are another trusted member of BB. Do you have any comments or further advice on the rest of the messages between Jim Hawk (who has been very kind and informative to me) and myself? Always interested in learning more. Thanks for chiming in.

Heroic108

Hi Builder - is your message in regards to beta blockers or ? - I'm not planning on stopping them as they keep my blood pressure in check and I've been on them of years. Unless I can find some actual clinical evidence that they interfere with titrating down or cause increased withdrawal difficulties (which I've not found and and may be an individual thing anyway) - I will keep on them. I think you are another trusted member of BB. Do you have any comments or further advice on the rest of the messages between Jim Hawk (who has been very kind and informative to me) and myself? Always interested in learning more. Thanks for chiming in.

Heroic108

 

My message is in regards to any medicine, supplement, substance, therapy, etc you read comments on here on BB. This is a horrible place to get medical advice.  Posters on BB are NOT a "random sample", they are select group who for various reasons needed to take one or more psych meds, and who have atypical difficulty discontinuing at least one of those meds.  (That description of course includes me!).

 

It troubles me that so many people come here  decide not to use some adjunct med, or some therapy, or taper protocol, that could be of great benefit, because of comments or horror stories they read here on BB.

 

Everyone should realize that all meds have side effects, and our unique personal physiology means we do not all respond the same to a given med.  To me, the decision equation is very simple:  does the expected benefit outweigh the potential side effect?

 

Over the course of my therapy for my original disorder, and during my taper, I tried a number of different meds,  Rx and OTC.  Some were beneficial, many offered no real help, and a few had unpleasant side effects.  I sometimes share my personal experience with a given med, but I never say "Don't take this med!"

 

With respect specifically to beta blockers, they are generally fairly benign, are a proven means of lowering heart rate, easing tremors, and suppressing adrenaline. I took 15mg of propranolol PRN  (primarily for tremors)  during my taper, and found it extremely helpful.  If you have a condition that your doc feels should be addresses with a beta blocker, I would rely on the doctors advice.

Thanks Builder – you’ve confirmed a number of my own observations. I understand that support groups are made up of a diversity of people, but in our particular support group we have a majority who have had difficult psychiatric histories and have been (mis) treated in many cases with poly-pharmaceutical cocktails that have often made things worse. I also know that some people have an easier time of it partially depending on their use histories or resilience in general – including attitude. My own niece went through a clonopin withdrawal and taper in about 6 months. She was on a higher dose, I think, and took it for many years. She shared this with me last week for the first time. She’s done well in the decades since. So, I think, there are many stories like this that we may not be often exposed to in support groups. That should give us all a ray of strength that it can be done.

 

Reading the taper plan that I am beginning, I wonder if you have any comments on that? Seeing my low dose and fairly short use of clonopin, (I’ve gone from .5mg. in mid august to .375mg now), I have decided to try a 25% liquid taper of which I still have about 132 days to go calculated by the link Jim Hawk provided (http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/). I’m not sure if this is too conservative or if the longer use of this benzo will outweigh the gentleness of the taper.  I will also use the method JH recommends by dissolving my capsule powder using 40% vodka. I plan to take it one day at a time, hold when necessary, and see what my symptoms are telling me. If, after a period of time, I feel I can speed up a bit, I may change the schedule closer to a 0.08 fixed to see if I can tolerate it or I may keep the 25% schedule but speed it up a little by titrating quicker.

 

By the way, I think I originally came across your name on a thread about supplements. Do you have any links on discussions for supplements that you have tried that may have helped? I take Omega oils, vitamin D3, probiotics, and super bio-curcumin - all of which I've been using for years. I may add Laktoferrin. I've used these for arthritis and due to a history of cancer - in remission for 6 years.

 

Thanks for any input and best of luck in your own journey.

 

1) I guess a "25% liquid taper" means you will take 75% of your dose "dry" and taper the remaining 25%.  If that's a convenient relationship, given your tablet/capsule sizes, that's fine.  The distribution between dry and liquid really isn't important.  I often say that taking tablet/liquid combos is no different then taking 2 difference dose-size tablets.  They come from 2 different jars, but they add up to the correct dose.

 

2)  I agree with Jim that given your very short usage history, I would opt for a very quick taper.  At this point you probably have only a very light dependency, and extending your taper could well add to your difficulty.

 

3)  I am at best. a skeptic about supplements.  I discourage people from making an unnecessary changes in diet, habits, etc while tapering.  For example, I am a rabid opponent of smoking, but I discourage people from trying to quit while tapering.  Conversely, unless you experience a symptom or condition that needs to be addressed, I would not favor adding either a supplement or a med.  If you have a specific concern, address it your doc for professional advice.

 

 

Thanks for your quick reply. I may have used the wrong terminology. My taper will be all liquid - no use of dry pills except to use the contents of the compounded capsules which have finely grounded clonopin and fillers, to empty into the jar and dissolve with the vodka. Fortunately I am not a smoker and the only supplements I take are the same ones I've used for the last 6 years. I believe most of them are benign and are not aimed at easing withdrawal. Your reply was helpful.The 25% is the amount of percentage taper I willed in on the form that I linked to you - that Jim Hawk sent me. I hope that makes sense.

As suggested, whatever you currently take, I would continue.  Don't confuse your system by excluding something its accustomed to, or by unnecessarily adding anything new.

 

All liquid will be fine.  Again as noted, it really doesn't matter what "jar" your dose comes out of.

Hi Heroic108

 

In reviewing your suggested formula again there is still one thing puzzling me. Can I please ask your help to clarify?  Where did the amount of 3 ml water come from to add to the benzo and vodka solution?

Did you choose that number because, when added to the benzo+vodka solution (0.75 ml) it totals ten times my .375 mg. current Clonazepam dose, yielding a 0.1mg/ml solution?

Correct.

 

You suggested – “0.375 mg of benzo powder + 0.75 ml (2 x 0.375) of Vodka 40% + 3 ml water =  3.75 ml solution, 0.1 mg/ml. It would suffice for 1 day”

 

If that is the case, why, in the 9/30/18 question by Mermaid2 in the titration forum , (who takes .5mg. of Clonazepam a day) does Hunter suggest adding the higher amount of 490 ml water to 10ml of vodka for a total of 500 ml solution for her 10 day supply? If we were to use your formula, which makes sense to me, Mermaids2 would be adding 40ml of water to the 10ml of vodka for a total 10 day solution of 50ml. Is this because she will be drawing up a higher but equivalent dose that comes out the same but is simply more diluted?

 

Hunter’s suggestion to Mermaid2 who is taking .5 mg. of Clonazepam a day – “Combine 5mg (10X .5mg tablets) with 10ml vodka or PG, and add 490 mls water.*  This will be approx a 10 day supply, .01mg per ml.”

Dilution allows very small volumes to draw up. The more diluted is the solution (Eg: 0.01 mg/ml) the more accurate is the draw up operation. Compared to a less diluted solution (Eg: 0.1 mg/ml) it will be easier for the more diluted solution to get the right volume with manual error significantly reduced. In the same time you will need to swallow 10 times more liquid for the same quantity of benzo. Example: For 0.461 mg of benzo with a 0.1 mg/ml solution the volume you will have to draw up is 4.61 ml. With a 0.01 mg/ml solution the volume you will have to draw up is 46.1 ml.

In few words both benzo concentrations work fine. If you want to have more easiness in draw up operation by paying the price of more volume to drink, select the more diluted solution. With less diluted solution, you will drink less solution and pay some more attention while using the 1 ml syringe.

 

Second question – now that I am down to .375 mg daily, should I use that amount in the taper link that you sent as my starting amount rather than my previous amount of .4? Using my current dose makes more sense to me as it is the current dose.

You must start from your CURRENT dose. No need to go back to the initial 0.4 mg. I would however stay with the current dose but in liquid for 7-10 days to evaluate the body reaction upon switching to all liquid. It will soften down, if any. From there start to reduce.

Hello Jim - I had a concern with how I am doing the liquid taper. I understand that in order to make a 0.1mg/0.1ml mix for my .375 clonazepam, I am adding 0.75 mg 40% vodka (equal to 0.75cc's in the syringe).

 

The powder in the small capsules I am using barely gets wet from this amount of alcohol even when mixed around by a tool. The ETOH pools in the middle of the powder and then I use the tool to mix. The amount of the powder, with it's filler, is more than .375 mg. I am concerned that this chalky mix will not fully dissolve the active ingredient thereby under dosing me after I add the additional 3 ml's of water. 0.75 cc's of vodka is a very small amount for even the contents of the small cap I am using.

 

Should the dissolved clonazepam/alcohol mix be so chalky and fairly dry looking prior to adding the water? It's also hard to say if all the powder received the alcohol or if some, on the outer area of the jar, received none and will not be included in the dose.

 

Last thing - since I have kept the ETOH/Clonazepam jar with a lid on but without the addition of the 3cc's of water - do you think I can still add the water and use if you feel the medicine has been dissolved or should I dump this and start over? So far, the mix has been in a covered jar about 7 hours.

 

I'm going to post this also in the thread we have started with a photo of the mix so you can see what it looks like. I have removed all identifying information from my attachment (per my camera companies instructions) As always - thank you so much.

 

If there is a way to attach an image of my jar (all without identifying information) - please let me know and I will add it.

 

 

 

 

 

I am concerned that this chalky mix will not fully dissolve the active ingredient 

 

It will!

 

The "chalky mix" is inactive binders, fillers, and other inactive excipients.  Your K tablet is about 99.5% inactive ingredients.  The k will highly soluble on alcohol, and will readily dissolve.

Thank you Builder. What about the small powdery bits on the edges of the bottle that may not have mixed in well? When I begin the taper I imagine those bits will all count. Second - since I have only mixed 1 pill this morning to start and it is in the chalky form - can I still mix the remaining 3 cc's of water this evening and use it for my dose tomorrow or can I keep it as the chalky mix and add water in the morning. The fact is I am going to stay on my current .375 dose as a liquid for 7 to 10 days to see how the changeover effects me so either way I will get the whole dose. Cheers for chiming in.

The "powdery bits" are NOT K.

 

The K will quickly dissolve in the alcohol, and then the water can be added.

Many thanks. Finally, I'm about ready to begin. There is one discrepancy I should ask about before starting though. Jim's recommendation is

"0.375 mg of benzo powder + 0.75 ml (2 x 0.375) of Vodka 40% + 3 ml water =  3.75 ml solution, 0.1 mg/ml. It would suffice for 1 day." The benzodiazapine liquid taper plan link has that I add 4ml. water rather then the 3ml. I plan to take the whole dose (.375) all at once and with a 25% rate. Why does the liquid taper daily planner have me taking the extra mg? That will make a difference if I follow the daily planner it in what my daily dose it.

Hi Heroic108

 

The benzodiazapine liquid taper plan link has that I add 4ml

What has been initially displayed is a default proposition with figures rounded up. With that figure the benzo concentration is actually less than 0.1 mg/ml

 

 

If you enter the right value 3.75 ml then it gives the precise concentration of 0.1 mg/ml

 

 

I think I will have to do something for the code to prevent misinterpretation.

Thanks for clarifying. It seems like I can just change the 4 ml. and put in 3.75 under total volume of liquid? Sound right?