tapering liquid do not understand how to do it

Could someone please explaine in detail how to taper with liquid.

I take 0.5 mg at bedtime and I take 1/2 of my 0.5 in morning.

Need to get off feel terrible.

I dont understand how to do it.

I watched a video on you tube that says fill a measurer with 300 mls of water then drop the pill in let it desolve divide the dose in 2 and take out 1 ml and throw it away .. then drink the rest .

the next day do the same thin except take out 2 ml throw away and drink the rest . every day increasing by 1ml is that correct.

please help

To begin the Daily Liquid Micro Taper protocol, you will need to purchase a graduated cylinder to prepare the solution & some oral syringes to measure your doses. These can be purchased from amazon for <$20. Note: benzos generally are not water soluble & will need to be put into solution via an agent, many use ethanol (vodka), & then use water to dilute the solution into manageable doses. Search for the link to DLMT & ask for assistance in preparing & administering the taper solution. The more you read about it, the easier it will be for someone to help you begin the process. best wishes!

could someone help me liquid taper from 0.5 mg at bedtime and 0.25 in morning

i need a step by step please

You'll need (which you can order from amazon):

*50 mL graduated cylinder

*1 mL graduated oral syringe

*10 mL graduated oral syringe

*1 quart glass jar (which you can repurpose from a pickle jar or something)

 

I assume you have 0.5 mg tablets. Dissolve 7.5 tablets in 10 mL vodka. Wait a few hours. The tablets will not fully dissolve. That's fine, the drug does. After a few hours, add 490 mL water. You have 500 mL of a 0.01 mg per mL solution.

 

1st day: morning dose: 50 mL. Evening dose: 25 mL.

2nd day: morning dose: 50-0.5 mL. Evening dose: 25-0.5 mL

3rd day: morning dose: 50-1 mL. Evening dose: 25-1 mL

 

Keep continuing, removing 0.5 mL from each dose per day. Hold as you need if symptoms catch up. Make up a new solution as you get low.  The amounts you remove from each dose can just be added back to the solution you made up. No need to throw them down the sink or anything.

Hi tech21

 

Upon your request I will try to assist you and answer your question on how to taper with liquid.

 

1. Why do we taper with liquid?

We taper with liquid because with this method we can reduce very small quantity of drug at a time. The same quantity CANNOT be reduced by just splitting tablet to quarters or eighths. By reducing tiny quantity of benzo each time we give a good chance to our CNS (Central Nervous System) to adapt itself to the change with symptoms that remain manageable. When we do tablet splitting, every time we cut by removing a quarter, it's a BIG CUT and results in a huge shock to our CNS. Withdrawal symptoms that kick in are a sign that you need to slow down.

 

2. How does Liquid Taper work?

You need first to have your benzo solution. Then with a syringe you draw up every day the needed dose(s). Exactly the same way you would do with any liquid Rx prescribed by a doctor like cough syrup.

 

3. Benzo solution? What is it? Where can I find it?

Benzo solution is a liquid that contains benzo. Instead of taking benzo under the form of tablets, you will drink the benzo solution. You can find benzo solution by your pharmacist or you can prepare it by yourself.

 

4. How does the pharmacist do or how do I prepare the benzo solution by myself?

There are 2 ways to prepare a benzo solution:

- a suspended solution

- a dissolved solution

With suspended solution, benzo powder will be mixed up in a special liquid having a certain viscosity. This viscosity will enable benzo particles to remain suspended and well distributed in the solution when stirred. Typical suspension agents are ORA-Sweet®, ORA-Plus® and can be found in pharmacies. Benzo powder will remain powder in the solution as it will not be dissolved.

 

We have dissolved solution when benzo is uniformly distributed within the solution. Dissolved solution can be obtained by using benzo liquid Rx or tablets. It is greatly preferred when possible to use liquid Rx as it is directly and efficiently mixable with water. When we have only tablets then we need a solvent to first dissolve tablets. Once the tablets are dissolved, we will add water in a precise proportion to get the correct solution

 

5. Why shall I use a solvent? Isn't water OK?

Most benzos are NOT soluble in water. Water is a POOR benzo solvent and a POOR benzo suspension agent. By using water, high are the risks that benzo particles will be pulled down to the bottom of the recipient by their own weight. By drawing up the solution one may finish to get some benzo or no benzo in his dose. In no way he will get precise dose. Accuracy is a big looser in this.

 

6. What solvents can I use? And how much of it?

In many pharma formulas for benzo liquid Rx, we can mainly find alcohol (ethanol) or a combination of Polyethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol. Besides that, as benzo tends to combine with or dissolve in lipids or fats (lipophilic) many buddies use fatty milk to dissolve benzo. The disadvantage of milk is that it can not be preserved for more than 1 or 2 days.

We can also find in pharma formulas 1 mg of benzo dissolved in 1 ml of PURE ethanol. Knowing that the commercial Vodka contains 40% of alcohol, the other 60% being water, it is recommended to use 2 ml of Vodka to dissolve 1 mg of benzo. Alcohol-dissolved solution can be preserved for 10 days with no problem.

 

7. How much water to add to the alcohol-dissolved benzo?

The volume of water to add must be PRECISE and must take into consideration some parameters:

- To facilitate the calculation, it is suggested to add water in the quantity that the final solution will contain 0.1 mg of benzo in 1 ml (milliliter) of solution. This quantity must take into account the existing volume of alcohol used to dissolve the drug. Exemple: 1 mg of Diazepam --> 2 ml of Vodka to dissolve + 8 ml of water will make a 10 ml final solution of 0.1 mg/ml concentration.

- When fatty milk is used, no alcohol nor water is needed and the milk quantity to use must produce a 0.1 mg/ml solution. Exemple: 1 mg of Diazepam --> 10 ml of fatty milk will make a 10 ml final solution of 0.1 mg/ml concentration.

 

8. Where shall I keep my solution?

The solution is best kept in a clean, closed jar at room temperature not exposed to sun light. Refrigeration is not required although it does not harm.

 

9. I see in Youtube that solution is discarded during taper?

The prepared solution is a medication in all aspects. Like with any liquid medication in bottle sold in pharmacy, take the needed volume and let unused solution in bottle for next uses. Do not discard anything unless it is perished milk.

 

10.Which tools do I need?

- Syringes in 2 sizes:

  - 10 ml with 50 divisions

  - 1 ml with 100 divisions. To use when drawing up small doses for better accuracy.

- A graduated cylinder (100 ml), useful but not required. Syringes and cylinder can be found in pharmacies or on Amazon/Ebay for a few dollars.

- A glass storage jar with a lid. Re-purposed jelly, salad dressing, pickle/olive etc... will be fine.

- Solvent in needed quantity (Ex; Vodka)

 

11. How much solution shall I draw up each time?

Use this online planner http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/ . Fill in your information and submit. You will obtain a schedule with the doses that need to be taken every day.

 

Hope it helped.

i will not bother you again. Thank you for trying but how could anyone do these figures and try to come off this horrible medication . this is a nightmare.

I am happy for you and hope you always stay with piece of mind

 

.....

We can also find in pharma formulas 1 mg of benzo dissolved in 1 ml of PURE ethanol. Knowing that the commercial Vodka contains 40% of alcohol, the other 60% being water, it is recommended to use 2 ml of Vodka to dissolve 1 mg of benzo. Alcohol-dissolved solution can be preserved for 10 days with no problem.

.....

 

 

Hello Jim.

 

many thanks for your detailed information.

 

May I ask you:

Could I also use beer instead of vodka?

Suppose I have a 1mg lorazepam tablet and 5% alcohol beer, could I use 20 ml of beer instead of 2 ml vodka?

Hi john17

 

many thanks for your detailed information.

Oh! I thought nobody would come back to read that. Appreciated!

 

Could I also use beer instead of vodka?

As alcohol in those drinks is the substance to dissolve benzo, in principle beer would work fine. I must tell however that it is the first time I heard about using beer as solvent. If someone has had in the past experience with beer, please chime in.

 

Suppose I have a 1mg lorazepam tablet and 5% alcohol beer, could I use 20 ml of beer instead of 2 ml vodka?

The general rule is to use 2 ml of 40% Vodka to dissolve 1 mg of benzo. In the case of 5% beer you will need 8 times (40 / 5) 2 ml. That means 16 ml of beer will be necessary to dissolve 1 mg of Lorazepam. So your proposed 20 ml would be fine. If you fill up with water until 100 ml then your solution will be 0.01 mg/ml, easy to remember.

.....

As alcohol in those drinks is the substance to dissolve benzo, in principle beer would work fine. I must tell however that it is the first time I heard about using beer as solvent. If someone has had in the past experience with beer, please chime in.

 

.....

The general rule is to use 2 ml of 40% Vodka to dissolve 1 mg of benzo. In the case of 5% beer you will need 8 times (40 / 5) 2 ml. That means 16 ml of beer will be necessary to dissolve 1 mg of Lorazepam. So your proposed 20 ml would be fine. If you fill up with water until 100 ml then your solution will be 0.01 mg/ml, easy to remember.

Thank you for your reaction, Jim.

The main reason I asked  this was because I wanted to know if it is necessary to do the solution in steps.

First solve the tablet in the concentrated  vodka, and after this dilute the solution.

 

The other possibility would be that the concentration does not matter but only the total amount of alcohol, and in this case we could probably use beer as well.

 

Still I would prefer vodka because apart from the alcohol I would prefer to have as little as possible other ingrdients, so I would prefer the 2 ml above the 20 ml.

 

Suppose that I wanted to solve my 1mg tablet in the vodka as a first step, that seems not very easy to me.

I would have to put the tablet at the bottom of the jar, and pour 2ml of vodka into it.

But  this is so little that it would probably not even cover the bottom, in which case it could not solve the tablet.

Now I could add enough water to solve this problem, but maybe, because of the lower alcohol percentage of this mixture, the solution would be less easy.

 

I think this problem could be solved by shaking the jar a few times, like you would do in a water titration.

 

What do you think of this, Jim?

HI john17

 

First solve the tablet in the concentrated  vodka, and after this dilute the solution.

Correct approach

 

The other possibility would be that the concentration does not matter but only the total amount of alcohol

That other possibility would be valid only for solution preparation. From a taper viewpoint, without a proper concentration you won't be able to define correct doses thus taper with accuracy.

 

Still I would prefer vodka because apart from the alcohol I would prefer to have as little as possible other ingrdients, so I would prefer the 2 ml above the 20 ml.

We are two.

 

Suppose that I wanted to solve my 1mg tablet in the vodka as a first step, that seems not very easy to me.

I would have to put the tablet at the bottom of the jar, and pour 2ml of vodka into it.

But  this is so little that it would probably not even cover the bottom, in which case it could not solve the tablet.

You are right. But you don't need to prepare your solution for just one day. You can actually prepare it for one week or 10 days. Example: 10 x 1 mg Lorazepam + 20 ml Vodka + 80 ml water to produce 100 ml solution, 0.1 mg/ml. With an appropriate syringe you will draw up the dose you need and leave the unused solution in the bottle for next doses.

 

If you need to know how your taper schedule may look like, have a look here: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

Hope I answered your question.

.........

You are right. But you don't need to prepare your solution for just one day. You can actually prepare it for one week or 10 days. Example: 10 x 1 mg Lorazepam + 20 ml Vodka + 80 ml water to produce 100 ml solution, 0.1 mg/ml. With an appropriate syringe you will draw up the dose you need and leave the unused solution in the bottle for next doses.

 

If you need to know how your taper schedule may look like, have a look here: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

Hope I answered your question.

 

Thank you Jim.

It is rather clear to me now.

 

I have made a schedule and I saw the graph was linear. So the reductions keep the same during the whole process.

When I choose "attenuated ending" the graph consists of 2 linear parts, with a bend at about 1/3 mg lorazepam.

 

This seems not completely realistic to me, or is it?

 

Hi john17 

 

1. For the linear/hyperbolic graph, the explanation is here:

The application has been designed so the 2 fields Quantity and Percent are mutually exclusive. Clear one field will reset the other and enter value in one field will disable the other.

 

Two different philosophies of taper are here addressed:

- Fixed reduction quantity per period of days (mg/days)

A same and unchanged quantity will be reduced from the daily dose throughout the taper duration. The fixed reduction quantity method, also known as symptoms-based taper method, is easy to understand and to apply. It can offer a shorter taper duration compared to the fixed reduction percent.

The dark side of this approach is that by the end phase (~1/3) of the taper, a number of patients especially those who tapered from a large dose of benzo become more vulnerable to the same reduction. As the reduction percent increases, the risk to feel symptoms due to a fast taper becomes real. The reduction quantity must be therefore adapted when symptoms occur. In the Taper Plan application, when there is 1/3 of the road to the cross line, the option "Attenuated ending" adapts the reduction quantity to 1/3 of the initial value. This option works only when the reduction is based on fixed quantity.

 

- Fixed reduction percent per period of days (%/days)

A same and unchanged percent (over a period of days) translated in quantity will be reduced from the daily dose throughout the taper duration. As the daily dose decreases, so does the reduction quantity proportionally. That implies a very slow reduction evolution, a longer taper duration but it will likely raise less symptoms. This method is "gentler" from a symptoms viewpoint but seems to be less popular in the community as everybody wants benzo off their body as soon as possible even by paying with symptoms.

 

Some more explanations about the option "attenuated ending":

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=202618.0

 

Hope I answered your question.

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much.

I mixed up "planned quit dose" in box "medication"  and the values in box "planned reduction"

When I choose 5% in box "planned reduction" I get a nice exponential graph.

 

 

Another question.

I suppose the syringes are used without needle.

Suppose I use a 1ml syringe can the doses be really accurate because in most cases there will be a drop at the end of the syringe?

Hi john17

 

I suppose the syringes are used without needle.

Correct

 

Suppose I use a 1ml syringe can the doses be really accurate because in most cases there will be a drop at the end of the syringe?

Besides the fact that all syringes are designed to take into account the drop at the end, you can rinse it more times with water directly in mouth. Remember too that the liquid is diluted to 0.1 mg/ml and normal errors by manipulating syringe will have no significant impact (~0.001 mg).

.....

Correct

.......

Besides the fact that all syringes are designed to take into account the drop at the end, you can rinse it more times with water directly in mouth. Remember too that the liquid is diluted to 0.1 mg/ml and normal errors by manipulating syringe will have no significant impact (~0.001 mg).

That is clear Jim.

Many thanks for your patience!