Neurontin/ Gabapentin for Klonopin taper. Anybody? I have my doubts.

So after being in holding pattern for about a month and waiting to see a psychiatrist I was finally ready to do my Klonopin taper. I went in armed with the Ashton manual, conversion charts etc... I was ready to do a K to Valium crossover taper.

The doc wasn't having it. After a 15 minute conversation during which I failed to make my point, he recommended 300mg of gabapentin 3x daily with a drop of my morning or evening dose of K within three weeks"when I felt comfortable ".  I am on roughly .25 K daily split into two doses.( a little under).

Anybody try this route? I am dubious about this approach. He reasoning is that Valium " hits to hard and is just as difficult as K".

Crazy? Bad idea? Give it a try?

Any input welcomed.

 

This is a well established outpatient teaching hospital that specializes in addiction withdrawal so I will give it a try if I hear some positives. Otherwise I guess I will seek other options.

 

I did direct K taper with gabapentin aid. gabapentin will help tiny bit, provided the taper is slow. I would not automatically start gabapentin unless you get bad symptoms.

ask the doc for liquid K RX, and start a slow taper.....general rules apply, 5-10% every 1-2 weeks.

provided you stay on gabapentin long enough, this will also have to be tapered slowly

I haven't crossed over from K to gabapentin but I've been on both.  They are not the same.  Gabapentin did not do much for me.  I felt it in my body at first.  Funny warming sensations in my arms and legs and felt a little out of it but it's wasn't anything like a benzo.  The benzo's always hit the spot for me mentally, gabapentin did not even touch that part of my anxiety.  My hands would get slightly swollen like I ate too much salt.  I wanted to get off after about 6 months and eventually did by switching to Lyrica and then getting off that.  The Lyrica btw was closer to helping alleviate my anxiety but still pretty far off the mark and not even close to a benzo.

I haven't crossed over from K to gabapentin but I've been on both.  They are not the same.  Gabapentin did not do much for me.  I felt it in my body at first.  Funny warming sensations in my arms and legs and felt a little out of it but it's wasn't anything like a benzo.  The benzo's always hit the spot for me mentally, gabapentin did not even touch that part of my anxiety.  My hands would get slightly swollen like I ate too much salt.  I wanted to get off after about 6 months and eventually did by switching to Lyrica and then getting off that.  The Lyrica btw was closer to helping alleviate my anxiety but still pretty far off the mark and not even close to a benzo.

 

Congrats on the freedom! And thx. I may give it a try. Liquid K not an option which doesn't help.

After three days I can assure everyone that neurontin is nowhere near as fun as clonazepam. I am a walking zombie. I can understand why people get off this stuff. I will call the doc to discuss dosage reduction tomorrow. I am anxiety free however.

Ok Keep us updated!

Ok Keep us updated!

 

Update time! Standard disclaimer that this is MY experience and may not translate to everyone.

I have read a few reviews with somewhat favorable results. Mine won't be one of them😳.

I was unable to tolerate 300mg x3 daily. I did two trial days of 300mg X1 before bed and then tried 300 x 2. By the end of the first day on my first full dose of 300 x 3 I was damn near suicidal. Crying, raging anger, disconnected and hopeless feelings. To the point I scared my wife into considering an inpatient emergency.

By the next morning it had worn off (5-7 hour half life)I felt halfway decent so I decided not to take a full dose. I cracked open a capsule and measured out a third(100 mg or so) . I took that twice over the course of the day and felt mild depression with a not at all pleasant disconnected feeling. Called the doc. Received a new script for 100mg x 3 daily.

I took the 100 mg this morning and within 40 minutes was crying and moderately depressed. Not as bad as on the 300 but still not fun. It also seems to be "crowding out " the remaining Klonopin benefits I may be getting. I no longer feel better when taking my taper dose and I have developed a rebound like anxiety as the neurontin wears off. Yuck.

Benefits: it does kill anxiety at higher doses but with severe side effects for me...I was a zombie.

Another benefit is that it does promote sleep. Boy, does it ever. But that wore off by day three.

The last positive is the very short half life of this drug. It is very easy to get feedback about how it is working and if it doesn't, the drug is gone rather quickly. It took less than a half day to feel better.

 

I think the side effects combined with the fact that I actually felt BETTER just tapering Klonopin means this is not for me. It is very hard decision because I have Doctors, family members and friends all telling me to just try it a while longer. I know my chemistry by now and I can tell that any improvement is unlikely. My plan is to taper the neurontin over the next few days and if I hit a sweet spot that helps I may try to stay there.otherwise it's in the trash. Feeling pretty hopeless and this escapade has delayed my taper which makes me 😡. I have to remind myself that the goal hasn't changed even if it takes more time. I am just very, very tired of the process. It's uncomfortable, it's wearing out my family and it is like stumbling in the dark. I cannot find a doctor that will prescribe Valium per Ashton guidelines. Heck, I can't even find a doctor that will see me in less than two months time or even consider assisting a benzo taper.

One foot in front of the other buddies, it's a long walk😫

 

Neurontin discontinued per doctors orders. Now they want me to try Oxcarbazapine.

 

The good news is the neurontin didn't require a taper since I wasn't on it long. No withdrawals noted.

Hi RadDad

 

I have certainly missed a point or two somewhere because I can't seem to find out:

- Why the need to cross-over to Valium from Klonopin. Is that because Ashton manual said to do so?

- Why the use of Neurontin? Was it to replace the Klonopin cut during the taper?

 

You may find out by reading the posts in the BB that many if not most of buddies directly tapered from Clonazepam without the need to cross-over to Valium. The main reasons why someone under benzo would cross-over to Valium is when the benzo they use has a short elimination half-life like Lorazepam, Alprazolam...Valium (Diazepam) could help in this case to keep the drug in the organism much longer thus avoiding fluctuations or inter-dose withdrawal. It provides kind of predictability in symptoms. Clonazepam has a shorter elimination half-life than Diazepam but its 30 hours are more than sufficient to cover an entire day and between 2 consecutive doses.

 

Besides that you don't know how your body will react to the newly introduced Valium. And even when you managed to completely replace Klonopin with Valium, successfully taper Valium remains a big question mark as Valium is too well known as a beast hard to get rid of.

 

I have tapered directly from Clonazepam 0.5 mg/night after 3.5 years of use. You can do it too. There is no secret in the taper exercise but a gentle and slow reduction of a tiny (micro) quantity of drug each day. And when symptoms occur, hold until your body catches up and get stable again before resuming. Possibly avoid to take AD/beta-blocker/SSRI/sleep meds/supplements/vitamins/herbs... They appear to have limited effect when they do not adversely interfere with the taper making things more complex.

 

Have a smooth journey towards a full recovery.

Hi RadDad

 

I have certainly missed a point or two somewhere because I can't seem to find out:

- Why the need to cross-over to Valium from Klonopin. Is that because Ashton manual said to do so?

- Why the use of Neurontin? Was it to replace the Klonopin cut during the taper?

 

You may find out by reading the posts in the BB that many if not most of buddies directly tapered from Clonazepam without the need to cross-over to Valium. The main reasons why someone under benzo would cross-over to Valium is when the benzo they use has a short elimination half-life like Lorazepam, Alprazolam...Valium (Diazepam) could help in this case to keep the drug in the organism much longer thus avoiding fluctuations or inter-dose withdrawal. It provides kind of predictability in symptoms. Clonazepam has a shorter elimination half-life than Diazepam but its 30 hours are more than sufficient to cover an entire day and between 2 consecutive doses.

 

Besides that you don't know how your body will react to the newly introduced Valium. And even when you managed to completely replace Klonopin with Valium, successfully taper Valium remains a big question mark as Valium is too well known as a beast hard to get rid of.

 

I have tapered directly from Clonazepam 0.5 mg/night after 3.5 years of use. You can do it too. There is no secret in the taper exercise but a gentle and slow reduction of a tiny (micro) quantity of drug each day. And when symptoms occur, hold until your body catches up and get stable again before resuming. Possibly avoid to take AD/beta-blocker/SSRI/sleep meds/supplements/vitamins/herbs... They appear to have limited effect when they do not adversely interfere with the taper making things more complex.

 

Have a smooth journey towards a full recovery.

 

Thank you!

The Valium route was because of Ashton and the Neurontin was an adjunct instead of Valium.

I have since been started on  Oxcarbazepine . If this does not work I will just simply taper without an adjunct. I feel that my lack of progress is mostly due to fear of jumping in the cold water, so to speak. It is much easier to stand on the edge and wring my hands than it is to act 😄

It is also symptomatic of my personality of avoidance which likely brought me to this place in the first place. C’est la vie.

 

Forward!

Update: the Oxcarbazapine has been a great help. I have reduced to .0625 x 2 daily with minimal side effects. I had two days with very severe ( but brief) nausea events and some periods of increased anxiety but it has been tolerable.

I was even tempted to blame the nausea on something else but it started two days after I reduced dosage. Too much of a coincidence 😀

Positives:I have not even had to take the maximum daily dosage of Oxcarbazapine yet...

By the end of the second dose I felt better than I had in 15 years. Just relaxed without a buzzed feeling. That went away as I reduced my K dosage but I still found it helpful.

 

Negatives: some sleepy side effects. First dose gave me a splitting headache and a roaring in my ears like the feeling one might get immediately before anesthetic sedation. These side effects did not return.

The MD prescribed this stuff as a rapid detox style withdrawal. I am planning on sticking to my own timeline however. I am worried about tolerance to the Oxcarbazapine as it seems to be losing some of its helpfulness. This may be due to increased side effects from K withdrawal. Hard to tell.

 

 

Good luck, my friend, and good riddance to bad rubbish! I tried gabapentin as an alternative to benzo use/as an aid to use lower doses, and it was terrible. I wound out feeling like the stuff was going to GIVE me a seizure because my muscles twitched so hard and so much when it wore off, along with electric shock feelings and feeling really down while the dose was active, with terrible rebound anxiety afterward. Hopefully the Oxcarbazapine continues to be helpful, and your docs will help you jump off of that slowly as well, once you’re done with the K. You’re almost there!!! 

Good luck, my friend, and good riddance to bad rubbish! I tried gabapentin as an alternative to benzo use/as an aid to use lower doses, and it was terrible. I wound out feeling like the stuff was going to GIVE me a seizure because my muscles twitched so hard and so much when it wore off, along with electric shock feelings and feeling really down while the dose was active, with terrible rebound anxiety afterward. Hopefully the Oxcarbazapine continues to be helpful, and your docs will help you jump off of that slowly as well, once you’re done with the K. You’re almost there!!! 

 

Thank you. I like the almost there part😁 Fingers crossed.

Then it's the what now? part. I'll deal with that...

 

Gabapentin was terrible for me.

Thank you!

The Valium route was because of Ashton and the Neurontin was an adjunct instead of Valium.

I have since been started on  Oxcarbazepine . If this does not work I will just simply taper without an adjunct. I feel that my lack of progress is mostly due to fear of jumping in the cold water, so to speak. It is much easier to stand on the edge and wring my hands than it is to act 😄

It is also symptomatic of my personality of avoidance which likely brought me to this place in the first place. C’est la vie.

 

Forward!

 

Good luck with Oxcarbazepine.

 

I think you are being very cautious here, and cautious mindset is a very good thing to have through this process. I take Neurontin myself. I started getting a lot of bad nerve pain/burning skin symptoms coming off of ativan, so Neurontin helped with that and with the anxiety. However, it made me feel very funny and weird. I started taking 100mg doses as needed and slowly went up to 3 x 300mg a day, and I refuse to go up in dose, because I don't think that it is an especially good drug to be on, to be honest. Neurontin uses a "push" mechanism action on GABA molecules, pushing them into receptors, where benzos have a "pull" action, which is stronger. I don't believe that Neurontin will act directly on GABA receptors, but it works in tandem with the benzos to keep the GABA system from underperforming.

 

Having said that, please keep in mind that one builds tolerance with neurontin just as well, and that it is not an easy drug to taper off (the same taper rate applies, just like with the benzos). It is considered a "bridge" where you use a less potent drug (neurontin) to taper off the more potent one (klonopin). And of course, neurontin is not a scheduled drug, so doctors love it for that reason.

 

Long story short, I would have never taken neurontin if I weren't so darn scared of being cut off from the benzo and if doctor didn't have me under the gun to lower ativan as quickly as possible. I would have skipped it and would have most likely taken CBD oil for nerve pain or Valerian or some other herbal supplement.

 

I took Neurontin 3x300 mg a day after I had chemotherapy for the neuropathy in my feet. I'm not sure if it ever really helped. I came off neurontin twice, reducing 1 dose per day each week. So first week I got rid of lunchtime dose and did that for a week, 2nd week I got rid of breakfast dose so I'm only on bedtime dose for a week, then got rid of that.

 

I wish the xanax was so easy.

I tried Neurontin years ago but ended up in the ER.  I threw up 10 times in 20 hours and had to go back on Klonopin to taper it.  Wish I had never tried Neurontin.

Any update? My doc put me on the same thing for panic attacks. 1mg Klonopin BID and 300mg Gabapentin TID. I am a Zombie and am having depression for the first time.

I took GP in the beginning of my taper and stopped about two months in. No problems, just wasnt for me. Had no problems stopping it. No issues setting my taper back or slowing it down. 

 

Best bet is try and see what works for you. Everyone is different and it sounds like your doctor is willing to help with this.....

 

Best wishes.

 

M