Need An Experts Advice On How To Taper With Valium

Hello Buddies.

 

Tomorrow im going to go see a doctor that i saw a few times a while back who prescribed me ativan 3 times (only 15, then 5, then 15 .5's. He also wanted to put me on SSRi's which i vehemently objected to.

 

My story- I've been taking xanax for the past 3 months or so. I got some librium from my subutex doctor and took that for about 3 days, but it didnt do anything for benzo withdrawals so i ended up stopping. I went without benzo or alcohol for 6 days, and it was hell on earth. I know only 3 months doesnt seem like a lot but by the end of my run i was taking at least 4mg xanax a day, sometimes 6mg on really bad days. Then i jumped off to librium, which like i said was worthless. Well on day 7 i couldnt take it anymore and took some xanax. That was 2 days ago. I took more yesterday and today as well, and all my withdrawal symptoms have disappeared except for the crushed throat feeling. I know i messed up and should have kept the CT going, but im human, and made a mistake. Just couldnt take it anymore.

 

My plan is to go in tomorrow and ask for valium to taper off with. I need help with a schedule tho. Since i wasnt on it for years and years like most, can i do a faster taper? If he doesnt want to give me the valium ill just take whatever he does give me and get by until i find a doctor that will help and is more benzo wise than this guy.

 

Please help. Im ready to stop, I just need some support and guidance.

 

Thanks,

B.

 

Please help, appt is tomorrow. Im bringing a few pages out of the ashton manual but dont know if i should do a long taper or short taper.

Hi,

Its very hard to say.. If you have opiates and alcohol in your history I would plan for a longer taper, (well I would anyway if possible).. Ashton is a good guide, but it can go either way from there.. (faster or slower)

Try not to jump around on doses if possible..

3 months can be long enough to become dependant, and avoiding a CT is a good Idea...

 

Plan for the worst, but hope for the best...

 

Good luck tomorrow..

 

Hi,

 

You’ve jumped around a bit and been on a potent Benzo up and down the dosages, so you need to stabilise.  I don’t know how much you know about equivalent dosages between the benzos or how much your doctor will know. This is VITALLY important.  You may already know that Valium has a much longer half life than Ativan and Xanax and some people cross over fine, others have more of an issue.  I don’t know how many doses you were taking a day, but Ashton recommends that there is no need to take more than 2 doses of Valium a day because of how long it stays in your system. On Ativan if you take 1 or 2 doses a day, you can experience interdose withdrawal symptoms.

 

I personally tapered my Ativan to down below 1mg. I am taking the anti-depressant Escitalopram as well and this covered some of my withdrawal effects, although not all! I then crossed over to 7mg of Valium taking just over 3mg twice a day, once on waking and once before sleep.  I continued to taper from February to June by 1mg cuts.  I now see this was quite fast, even though the Ashton manual was ok with this.  This site advocates to taper slowly at around 10 or 15% cuts.

 

Your doctor may very say to do a faster taper because “you haven’t been taking it so long”, but be under no illusion about this. As I’ve said, Ativan is powerful and you need to give yourself plenty of time to allow your brain to adapt. Especially if you have also been using alcohol, which acts in a similar way to benzos!  Don’t be encouraged or pushed to taper too fast or you could be thrown into some severe side effects.

 

I was taking a steady dose of 3mg Ativan between August and November. I then started tapering and got down to 1mg Diazepam by beginning of June.  At that point I feel the cuts really caught up with me and the 50% drop from 2 to 1mg at such a low dose.  I experienced a resurge in severe anxiety, myoclonic jerks, loss of appetite and nausea. I panic updosed back to 2mg and stabilised after 2 weeks.  I believe I was lucky in that respect, as I’d not been cautious enough. Also, it taught me how powerful withdrawal is because even though I was taking a potent SSRI, the withdrawal still broke through in a severe way

 

If you are prone to anxiety then the Diazepam will work in a different way, as it doesn’t pack the punch Ativan or Xanax do against panic attacks. Some people feel more drowsy on it, especially at the higher dosages.  It is up to you whether you or your doctor (!) feel you are ready for this change.

 

When you’ve not been stable for a while, to introduce more change can sometimes make things worse. On a positive note, you may feel better with Valium. I just want to try to give you a fuller picture. Buddies Builder and Jim Hawk are very good with taper schedules and advice.  A microtaper might suit you if you struggle with the cut and hold method.  In which case you would need to look at liquid tapering, but again, be cautious as this acts differently to the tablet form in some people.

 

Hope your appointment goes well.

 

Take care,

Mrs B

Xx

Just left doctors office. He was adamantly against the valium and only offered me 10 tabs of 2mg. I tried telling him dude this isnt gonna work like that, thats nowhere near enough. But he told me he didnt want to give me high doses of a long acting benzo like valium because i also use suboxone. However, he had no problem giving me a script for 15 1mg ativan! I am perplexed at how many doctors are benzo ignorant. I even had a few pages out of the ashton manual with me and a sample taper chart. But nope he thinks a lorazepam taper is the way to go. With only 15 1mg's. Well at least this will get me by until tomorrow. I set up another appt with a different doctor for tomorrow undsr the advice of a friend of mine who said he helped him with a benzo taper. Hoping this guy will actually listen and know his stuff.

 

Im beside myself right now with how idiotic some doctors are.

Sorry to hear...

I hope this new Dr has a more realistic view...

All the best with that...

 

Saw the new doctor this morning. Ran into the same problem. He said if you wanna get off benzos then why are you substituting one for another? I was like, are you serious right now? Because thats what i want to do and i hear that valium is the best benzo to crossover to for tapering off. The funny part is he also runs a suboxone program out of his office. So i asked him, whats the difference between a junkie coming in here and you prescribing him suboxone to get off of heroin, and me coming in here addicted to xanax and being switched to valium and slowly tapering off? He honestly didnt know what to say. I caught him up real quick. I kept insisting that i needed valium and that it was the only way for me to get off. I told him im not doing cold turkey again. So he proceeds to give me scripts for clonidine, gabapentin, and seroquel. Yea like thats gonna help. So then he says come back and see me in two or three days and if this isnt working for you and you cant handle the withdrawals then ill give you valium. Im like really dude? Why cant we just jump straight to that cause i know its the only way im gonna get off.

 

Useless useless doctors. Looks like i have more doctor shopping to do.

Saw the new doctor this morning. Ran into the same problem. He said if you wanna get off benzos then why are you substituting one for another? I was like, are you serious right now? Because thats what i want to do and i hear that valium is the best benzo to crossover to for tapering off. The funny part is he also runs a suboxone program out of his office. So i asked him, whats the difference between a junkie coming in here and you prescribing him suboxone to get off of heroin, and me coming in here addicted to xanax and being switched to valium and slowly tapering off? He honestly didnt know what to say. I caught him up real quick. I kept insisting that i needed valium and that it was the only way for me to get off. I told him im not doing cold turkey again. So he proceeds to give me scripts for clonidine, gabapentin, and seroquel. Yea like thats gonna help. So then he says come back and see me in two or three days and if this isnt working for you and you cant handle the withdrawals then ill give you valium. Im like really dude? Why cant we just jump straight to that cause i know its the only way im gonna get off.

 

Useless useless doctors. Looks like i have more doctor shopping to do.

You gave it a good effort, and made good points.. Seems he is stuck in mainstream addiction mode, repeating his learned ignorance... He is fixating on medication removal, while blind to the long term and delicate nature of receptor and transmittor healing... Im sure he would say that healing doesnt happen until one is med free...!!

 

Keep trying... -Good luck with the "next"...

 

If he doesn't give me valium tomorrow I'm gonna get with a friend of a friend ave buy some valium from her. I dont care if it isn't the right way to go about it, i just want to be off benzos for good and nothing will stand in my way.1

Saw doctor again on Thursday. Now he was sooooo close to giving me valium, But at last minute he gave me 60 .5mg kpins. Never taken k before, so gonna continue with the xanax until i run out, then switch over to k. Also gonna keep making appts with other doctors to get valium. Now my concern is if i do get the valium, ill get flagged at a pharmacy because in the last week I've been prescribed 15 ativan and 60 klonopin. Last thing i need is a pharmacy blackball.

 

This doctor is soooo ignorant, he thought i would be able to jump with gabapentin, clonidine, and seroquel. My 2nd appt he gave me the klonopin and also atarax (useless imo). He also told me maybe i should start taking suboxone because " it might hit the right receptors for you and help you come off benzos). And I've been heroin free for almost 4 years...what an absolute quack. Oh and he also wants to put me on a ssri like lexapro or prozac (not gonna happen, ive had suicidal tendencies years ago as a young adult and i dont want suicidal ideation side effects).

 

I asked him, is it gonna be safe to take gaba, clonidine, seroquel, klonopin, and atarax all at the same time? He said yea no problem at all. Idk but that sounds like a really dangerous combination to me. Sounds like a zombie cocktail...maybe thats what he wants, to get me hooked and keep coming back.

 

My faith in doctors is at an all time low. Maybe i should try the psychiatrist route? My mind is set on a valium taper. Maybe, just maybe a kpin taper will work also, just not as well?

What is his reason for not giving you Valium? I thought previously it was because it was a bad combo with suboxone but you are not on that?

Hi there,

 

I can’t get my head around what these doctors have said. You are absolutely right to resist and hold your ground. I had a HORRIBLE experience with Seroquel.  It put me in the psych ward.

 

Keep pushing for the Valium. My GP initially said the same thing about substituting one for another, but I explained about interdose withdrawal on the shorter half life Ativan and that it was really affecting me and he did eventually cave in.

 

Please avoid the ridiculous cocktail suggested. I am sure you know that already. Your regime needs to be SIMPLE and SAFE.  You don’t need to be juggling multiple pills every day when one type will do. Unbelievable!!

 

Keep at it. Hope you get the Valium sooner rather than later.

 

Best wishes,

Mrs B

Xx

BD...agree ..do not take that combination.  Find another doc.  I was put on Klonopin from Ativan and OMGosh .. it is really really bad.  don't even take the first one.  I know it is different for everybody ..but it actually gave me anxiety, heart palpitations and blood pressure spikes..my body did not like it at all.  I know i did it wrong .. but went straight from the K to Valium .. and once the dose was correct ..my symptoms stopped.  I'm overdosed now ..but have started the taper.. just know I have to go slow or all symptoms will return. 

 

Good luck.  prayers for you. 

Hi,

Its very hard to say.. If you have opiates and alcohol in your history I would plan for a longer taper, (well I would anyway if possible).. Ashton is a good guide, but it can go either way from there.. (faster or slower)

Try not to jump around on doses if possible..

3 months can be long enough to become dependant, and avoiding a CT is a good Idea...

 

Plan for the worst, but hope for the best...

 

Good luck tomorrow..

I will just add to this.. -I would try not to jump around on different meds, if possible too...

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I still havent taken any kpins, still sticking with xanax for now. Im scheduling to see a psychiatrist this week, maybe going the psychiatrist route will be better.

What is his reason for not giving you Valium? I thought previously it was because it was a bad combo with suboxone but you are not on that?

 

I saw a different doctor. The 2nd doctor is the one that gave me the cocktail of nuerontin, seroquel, naltrexone, clonidine, klonopin, and atarax.

 

And this idiot also wanted to put me on subutex (i didnt tell him i already take it cause i didnt want that to ruin my chance at valium like it did the last doctor). As far as he knows ive been opiate free for almost 4 years. And he thinks putting me on subutex would be a good idea! Total quack.

Bumped for update

 

I've been on the xanax since the last post. Have seen several doctors and all of them refuse the valium method. I went back to see the idiot doctor on friday, and he gave me 75 more .5 klonopins. So i now have 135 .5mg kpins.

 

I'm pretty convinced i wont be able to get valium from a doctor here in so cal. I have one class left to finish that ends at the end of September, and ill have my level 1 industrial electrical certificate! 🙌

 

So my plan is to keep with the xanax until then, and take a break from school until im benzo free. Once i get my cert, im gonna switch over to the klonopin and taper with that, since i hear its the next best thing to taper with because of long half life. I still haven't touched any of the other crap he prescribed me. Once my taper is over and i stop taking the K, would it be a good idea to take the clonidine for high blood pressure and gabapentin for avoiding seizures? Only if i have withdrawal symptoms after stopping taper, which i hope goes smoothly.

 

Yea these doctors ive been seeing are totally benzon ignorant. Ive even asked a few pharmacists, people that have done years and years of study in medical school, and they all tell me "no, valium is not a good substitute to taper with because its too potent". One guy even told me klonopin has a longer half life than valium! I was like omg how is it a kid in his 20's knows more about medications than certified pharmacists and doctors? Smdh. I think the whole thing is rigged. They want to get you hooked, they want you to keep coming back so they can get that co pay and insurance money. And the kickbacks they receive from big pharma companies for meeting their quotas and lining big pharmas pockets with 💰.

 

I am so discouraged right now. Im an absolute mess. I burst into tears whenever i think about my situation. I just cant believe how extremely addicting benzos are. I though heroin was the worst. Nope. Benzos take the cake for sure. Pure evil.

Is there anyone out there that can help me with a taper plan! Please and thank you.

BDizzle91,

 

No specifics for a taper plan from me. Hopefully others can help with the details.

 

I'm not clear about your entire history. Ativan/lorazepam can be a very problematic drug, you've taken it but I'm not sure when or how long.

K is really a horrible drug. It works for some, it can be hell for others. If you notice real adverse effects (like agitation) right away it's not the right drug. The half life can help, but if you take it for a long time (and that's awfully subjective) it can be a real problem. IMO, it's best avoided. All the high potency benzos (lorazepam, alprazolam, clonazepam) are more dangerous.

 

Librium and diazepam are decent options. I'm not sure if Librium would work since it's so weak. Diazepam seems more logical. Potency is complicated, in general the high potency benzos are more potent, that's why those are called high potency benzos !

 

Ideally, it's best to taper off on the original drug if possible. You could try diazepam, but all too often that kind of thing causes problem. One important note: to a significant degree high potency benzos bind differently to GABA when compared to diazepam.

 

Actually, K may have a longer half life than diazepam but that's not really the point.

 

So, no numbers from me. My suggestion: add a signature, and ask for help with the specifics for a taper. It's good that you're young, it's not as if you're doomed.

BDizzle91,

 

No specifics for a taper plan from me. Hopefully others can help with the details.

 

I'm not clear about your entire history. Ativan/lorazepam can be a very problematic drug, you've taken it but I'm not sure when or how long.

K is really a horrible drug. It works for some, it can be hell for others. If you notice real adverse effects (like agitation) right away it's not the right drug. The half life can help, but if you take it for a long time (and that's awfully subjective) it can be a real problem. IMO, it's best avoided. All the high potency benzos (lorazepam, alprazolam, clonazepam) are more dangerous.

 

Librium and diazepam are decent options. I'm not sure if Librium would work since it's so weak. Diazepam seems more logical. Potency is complicated, in general the high potency benzos are more potent, that's why those are called high potency benzos !

 

Ideally, it's best to taper off on the original drug if possible. You could try diazepam, but all too often that kind of thing causes problem. One important note: to a significant degree high potency benzos bind differently to GABA when compared to diazepam.

 

Actually, K may have a longer half life than diazepam but that's not really the point.

 

So, no numbers from me. My suggestion: add a signature, and ask for help with the specifics for a taper. It's good that you're young, it's not as if you're doomed.

Just be aware V has a horrible reputation for causing depression. It's been a nightmare for me and led to polydrugging as my pdoc won't concede that my depression is in anyway connected to prescribed V addiction.

Staz