Can you heal in tolerance?

Just wondering, if your brain no longer responds to a dose and you end up in tolerance withdrawal, is it possible to heal then? Like not increasingly but staying at the dose. Or partial healing while you wait to have a better time to taper.

Just FYI, when you no longer respond to your med, that's just tolerance.  Tolerance is a common phenomonom that is universally recognized in the medical/pharma world, and happens with a wide variety of meds.  Tolerance is NOT a "disorder".  It is simply the body's natural homeostasis reacting to an external product.    It is not harmful and does not cause any sxs of its own, but the sxs of the original disorder may return.

 

Tolerance withdrawal is some kind of hybrid condition that has no support, research, or documentation anywhere, except here on BB. 

Hi Sorry this answer to your question is late.No l don't believe you heal when in tolerance.Now l do believe you heal as you lower your dose of you go slowly.Others will probably disagree however l have felt cognitive improvements so that is my evidence.

    Now tolerance withdrawal is very real l can assure you.l have had an anxiety disorder for many years and am very aware of how it affects my life however tolerance withdrawal symptoms are completely different and therefore not a fiction made up by BB.

   

As I understand it, tolerance withdrawal is tolerance (i.e. your brain has adjusted to the presence of the benzo and so now the benzo does not work anymore but if you don't take it you'll have withdrawal symptoms) plus, for short acting benzos, withdrawal symptoms that start to occur also between doses (specially if you take the benzo only once a day) plus the side effects of the benzo.

i strongly disagree with builders assessment there, as someone who experienced fairly extraordinary symptoms when in tolerance. it was far and above any baseline anxiety, it was equivalent to a lot of peoples withdrawal here, and very unpleasant to say the least. people who havent experienced it sometimes refute its effects, but its all too real. i was very, very uncomfortable and in a good amount of distress before i even started tapering, hell i didnt even know about benzo withdrawal until a year later, and a bunch of dr visits got me nowhere as i tried to diagnose my discomfort.

 

your question is a toughie to answer, as we are all different. for my own journey, when i hit tolerance, i felt as though i was in full withdrawal, with many of the wonderful symptoms hitting me, extreme fatigue, dizziness, agoraphobia, which was very strong and uncomfortable. for me, healing wasnt happening in this state, and i had to start tapering. but i was in pretty bad shape already. hopefully youre not in too much distress right now.

Try meditation, progressive relaxation, just anything to reduce your stress.  We don't seem to have a definite answer for you.  I don't want to disagree with Stut (who knows more than I do), but I think my tolerance withdrawal dissipated when I lowered my stress.

Here’s my tolerence story. Was dosing Valium 4 times a day. 8am, noon, 5 and midnight and often took an extra tablet when I went to places with crowds.

What happened to me was after I took my midnight dose I was waking at 3am drenched in sweat. I would cool off with a wet wash rag. Take another Valium and fall back asleep. Then by 5-7 am I was already ready for another tablet.

It was causing all kinds of GI problems. Stomach cramps. Loose stools, constpation.i thought I had stomach cancer. I always thought something was wrong with me. I was obsessed thinking I had stomach cancer, colon cancer, pancreatitis, etc. Sure, I have some underlying issues, but nothing had ever been like this. I ended up going to the ER saying I had a bowel blockage to be told after an X-ray there was hardly anything in my stomach at all. That’s when I found benzobuddies and learned some things about tolerance. Tolerance, tolerance withdrawal, paradoxical? I’m not sure what you call it.

I’ve been tapering 27 months now. All my old “buddies” were knocking off like 1mg every 14 days and I tried that and it absolutely spun my head. I think people in tolerance have to go slower and are going to feel every little cut but getting lower you start feeling better. I’m feeling so much better under 2.5 mg now. You will heal on the way down. I am. I no longer have screaming T or the “sizzle” that was going on in my brain. 80 percent of the dizziness whacked out feeling of, how am I even driving this car on a turnpike or functioning in society is gone.

Is this little 1.625mg doing anything therapeutic for me? Nah. I’m just afraid to completely let go. I’ll get there though. I’ve been on benzos a couple decades. It’s all I know but I plan to be at 1.5mg by Friday.

"Tolerance is a decrease in response to a drug that is used repeatedly."

 

(emphasis added)

 

https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/clinical-pharmacology/factors-affecting-response-to-drugs/tolerance-and-resistance

Hey Pitchman, Thanks for sharing your story.  I had a ton of stomach issues while still taking benzos regularly before tapering as well. 

 

My understanding about tolerance and tolerance withdrawal, is that for benzodiazepines, they often happen at the same time.  It's true, that technically, if you have tolerance, and the dosage isn't giving you the same effect, that does not necessarily mean that you also will have withdrawal symptoms.  Though, over time, many many people have gotten withdrawal symptoms because of tolerance. 

 

They talk about it here.  http://www.benzosupport.org/notes_on_tolerance.htm

you can say that all day builder, but sadly for many of us its far more than just a decrease in response.

my life went into a new hell while on the same dose of medication i was always on.

it in no way was equivalent to my pre benzo condition; i dont know why youre so hellbent to disavow a condition youve never experienced that plainly many people here have. im on these boards because the hell i went through in tolerance, yet youre adamant that myself and others are full of crap apparently

There is a major difference between tolerance and tolerance ("relative") withdrawal.

Please read the introductory page on BenzoBuddies:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-information/tolerance-and-dependency/

 

Tolerance is just the bodies return to equilibrium following the continued exposure to some external stimuli

Please take your snarky suggestion and cram it in your ass, i dont need to read a damn introduction thank you; i didnt go through hell the last 2 1/2 years to have to prove to another user of the legitimacy of my ordeal. i know you have a thing for tolerance and tolerance withdrawal, my point isnt debating the actual terminology - but im not gonna do this.

seriously sick and tired of the people who are on here long after they have a need to be other than to rile others up.

 

Apologies to all i will vacate this thread

Yikes this wasn’t my intention for this thread. Let’s all respect each others struggles.

I mean, professionals still don’t totally by protracted withdrawal amongst other things we firmly believe in this forum so I think all experiences should be respectlly considered.

I know How I felt before clonazepam, and I know How I feel Now. Not the same anxiety at all.

Shakes, insomnia, loss of appetite, depression, etc. Never before this benzo. So I definitely think entering into withdrawal while still on a constant/original dose is possible.

Yikes this wasn’t my intention for this thread. Let’s all respect each others struggles.

I mean, professionals still don’t totally by protracted withdrawal amongst other things we firmly believe in this forum so I think all experiences should be respectlly considered.

I know How I felt before clonazepam, and I know How I feel Now. Not the same anxiety at all.

Shakes, insomnia, loss of appetite, depression, etc. Never before this benzo. So I definitely think entering into withdrawal while still on a constant/original dose is possible.

 

If you are getting shakes, then it may be better not to taper for a while or to taper very slowly.

Yikes this wasn’t my intention for this thread. Let’s all respect each others struggles.

I mean, professionals still don’t totally by protracted withdrawal amongst other things we firmly believe in this forum so I think all experiences should be respectlly considered.

I know How I felt before clonazepam, and I know How I feel Now. Not the same anxiety at all.

Shakes, insomnia, loss of appetite, depression, etc. Never before this benzo. So I definitely think entering into withdrawal while still on a constant/original dose is possible.

 

If you are getting shakes, then it may be better not to taper for a while or to taper very slowly.

 

I’m Im holding off since I just Started my new job haha.

Also I have A stomach bug so I haven't eaten in 24 hrs.

Yikes this wasn’t my intention for this thread. Let’s all respect each others struggles.

I mean, professionals still don’t totally by protracted withdrawal amongst other things we firmly believe in this forum so I think all experiences should be respectlly considered.

I know How I felt before clonazepam, and I know How I feel Now. Not the same anxiety at all.

Shakes, insomnia, loss of appetite, depression, etc. Never before this benzo. So I definitely think entering into withdrawal while still on a constant/original dose is possible.

 

Im holding off since I just Started my new job haha.

Also I have A stomach bug so I havent eaten in 24 hrs.

 

If you are getting shakes, then it may be better not to taper for a while or to taper very slowly.

 

IMHO, I think it's important to actually prepare for taper mentally, physically and logistically. There is much more to it than just dose decreases. I wish I'd prepared myself more when I started. Basically, looking into cortisol lowering foods, avoiding too much sugar, avoiding too much caffeine and other stimulants. It sounds rote and basic, but every little thing you can do to help yourself can make a world of difference. Staying away from unnecessary stress is also key. Not stressing yourself out because you can't physically relax is key, too. Good luck!

 

For example, I was still drinking coffee when I started having ill-effects from ativan, and I'd have panic attacks from it. Nevermind that I was able to tolerate coffee for years. Suddenly, I couldn't do it anymore, and I stopped coffee cold turkey, which was also too fast. A while back, I also stopped the SSRI too quickly (cold turkey, practically), and suffered as well. If you take any other medications, I'd recommend not changing things up much.

for my own journey, when i hit tolerance, i felt as though i was in full withdrawal, with many of the wonderful symptoms hitting me, extreme fatigue, dizziness, agoraphobia, which was very strong and uncomfortable. for me, healing wasnt happening in this state, and i had to start tapering. but i was in pretty bad shape already. hopefully youre not in too much distress right now.

Me too!

My experience is very, very similar to this.

When I reached a state of tolerance it seemed to come out of nowhere. The medicine seemed to just stop working rather suddenly and I was absolutely terrified. I lost my job because I was barely able to leave the house, my grades tanked and I bombed an entire semester at school.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I'm glad to know that I'm not alone!

I think the trick here is to separate the words, which I think everyone did in their own way...

One can reach tolerance... AND experience withdrawal symptoms..

But by pure definition the words dont quite fit together..

 

Its what it means to each person thats important...

 

That aside, some great posts and experiences here..

 

I also think slow tapering is the best solution in most instances...

It can get muddy with short term use, and dare I say it.. Rarer Paradoxical "type" reactions...

 

My best to all...

 

Medicine isn't a science its an applied science. They are very different. I think the builder was being overly pedantic in his insistence on an immutable definition to the point its really insensitive, especially given the context of where we are, this is a support forum dude, cmon. Benzo buddies is uncharted territory and yet so many people cant disenthrall themselves from the idea that the medical field covers everything. There are areas the medical field are blind to. They have and always will exist (happy to provide citations here). So taking pharmacological terms like tolerance and withdrawal and saying these are precise definitions that aren't used correctly is like a librarian telling you its a library so please stick to reading the books. These things evolve. People use the internet in libraries now, they don't read books that much. If the definition for tolerance and withdrawal is widening or merging or whatever to match peoples experience within the benzo buddies community then you can guarantee the terms will change or a new one will be coined and that will make its way into the literature as medicine catches up. There is room in the definition of tolerance for it as well in the word 'adapt'. Tolerance is when the body adapts to the continued presence of the drug, such an adaptation could involve symptoms arguably. Either way, no need to dig heels in and negate peoples experiences over something so arbitrary and besides the point of the forum; which is support!

 

 

Luke Skywalker I have the constant boaty feeling for years now which I believe is k tolerance withdrawal. How do you cope ? I'm completely housebound because of it. Posting a longer post later.