Valium direct crossover ... Is this normal?

I’ve been frantically trying to help a friend of mine and could use some insight. 

 

A friend of mine was on Klonopin it was paradoxal and I think she reached tolerance.  It’s almost like a CT the severity of her symptoms.  Her Pdoc was willing to switch her to Valium.  Now she’s extremely dizzy, spacey, crying and groggy.  She wasn’t like that on Klonopin. 

 

Has anyone had this experience with Valium? 

Yes, I crossed from Xanax to Klonopin to Valium. How can I help?

I also had a CT-like experience crossing over from Klonopin to Valium. My symptoms were incredibly severe. I had hallucinations, anxiety, panic, dp/dr, suicidal thoughts and behaviors, an increase in physical pain, IBS, mood swings, etc. It got better for me after about a month. I hope it gets better for you soon too.

I also had a CT-like experience crossing over from Klonopin to Valium. My symptoms were incredibly severe. I had hallucinations, anxiety, panic, dp/dr, suicidal thoughts and behaviors, an increase in physical pain, IBS, mood swings, etc. It got better for me after about a month. I hope it gets better for you soon too.

 

Don’t think the side effects you listed are good or safe!!!!!  My God!!!!

Has anyone found that Valium does nothing for anxiety?  My friend is suffering horribly.  Her anxiety is so severe and the Valium crossover does nothing to aid her anxiety.

Has anyone found that Valium does nothing for anxiety?  My friend is suffering horribly.  Her anxiety is so severe and the Valium crossover does nothing to aid her anxiety.

 

The valium didn't/still doesn't do much to help my anxiety. At this point I feel like I'm just experiencing rebound anxiety most of the time, and general anxiety due to the immense amount of stress I deal with on a regular basis.

Have you considered that you might not have crossed over to the right dose of Valium?  1mg Klonopin is equivalent to 15mg Valium, not 10mg Valium...

Hi wassernixe

 

I had the same thing switching over adding in horrid full body tremors. My CNS went into shock!

but can't stabilize, V just doesn't seem to work? I get rebound and tremors a few hours after taking.

Never had this before... Did you think of tapering off K instead? I'm thinking of swapping back?

K is one benzo I'd never been on so maybe it is the only one I don't have tolerance to?

 

Hi wassernixe

 

I had the same thing switching over adding in horrid full body tremors. My CNS went into shock!

but can't stabilize, V just doesn't seem to work? I get rebound and tremors a few hours after taking.

Never had this before... Did you think of tapering off K instead? I'm thinking of swapping back?

K is one benzo I'd never been on so maybe it is the only one I don't have tolerance to?

 

Your sig says you were on K for 3 weeks?  Maybe I read that wrong.  She’s tolerant to K.  Something has to change.  Not sure what........ 

That's right but I had the same reaction switching to V is what I was saying.

It may have been a short time but I've had a severe WD doing so as I must be sensitive so I'm just commenting to say I understand the switch thing.

Not about her tolerance sorry I can't answer that one..

Yeah......

Have you considered that you might not have crossed over to the right dose of Valium?  1mg Klonopin is equivalent to 15mg Valium, not 10mg Valium...

 

Agree with above... I didn't have a problem but I also didn't jump straight from K to V, I still took a lower dose of K until fully put on the equivalent dosage of Valium

Have you considered that you might not have crossed over to the right dose of Valium?  1mg Klonopin is equivalent to 15mg Valium, not 10mg Valium...

 

Agree with above... I didn't have a problem but I also didn't jump straight from K to V, I still took a lower dose of K until fully put on the equivalent dosage of Valium

 

I’m looking into that.    Did you find they were very different acting?

If I understand correctly,some of the metabolites from Valium that help best with anxiety symptoms are metabolized fairly quickly. Thus even though Valium has a long half life it may be wise, in certain patients prone to anxiety symptoms, to divide their doses throughout the day

If I understand correctly,some of the metabolites from Valium that help best with anxiety symptoms are metabolized fairly quickly. Thus even though Valium has a long half life it may be wise, in certain patients prone to anxiety symptoms, to divide their doses throughout the day

 

Thanks for pointing that out.  I'm almost halfway through a crossover from Ativan (5 doses/day) to the equivalent amount of Valium (3 doses/day). Some folks suggest 2 doses or even a single dose of Valium daily, but for the reason you point out I'll very likely stick with 3 daily doses of Valium throughout the end of the taper.

 

Dan

I would say that the dosage needs to be higher, please check the ashton protocol.

 

Out of my experience: Anxiety can have multiple reasons. For me any medication that would make me sleepy and dizzy, like Valium or seroquel or whatever hat the opposite effect - Whenever I noticed that I was losing control over my body because I became sleepy or that "drunk" feeling, my panic got worse.

 

In her shoes I would now stick with the valium and check out the proper dosage and then - go through hell. The only way is to do it.

I can tell you there are so many of us, bedridden and invalid in withdrawal but there are hardly other options. A doctor would only add antidepressants or other stuff that would have side effects on top..

Its good that you are by her side, the both of you must hold on and strengthen yourself until you both are out of hell.

Different drugs ! Not for everybody.

My gp crossed me over directly from .75mg a day of k to 16 mgs of valium. The first month was devatating to my mind and body. Im now taking 7-8 mg of valium at night ad 3mgs of V in the morning. I was feeling so down with the fist month i was given celexa to improve my mood . it has only just started to kick in. Im following the ashton manual but sometimes when i cant take the horrible anxiety i cheat and take an extra mg of V during the day.

I also had a CT-like experience crossing over from Klonopin to Valium. My symptoms were incredibly severe. I had hallucinations, anxiety, panic, dp/dr, suicidal thoughts and behaviors, an increase in physical pain, IBS, mood swings, etc. It got better for me after about a month. I hope it gets better for you soon too.

Were you acute on K or after yóu crossed over to V

I go by this conversion chart: https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

Before switching, follow the chart. Most doctors don't seem to know the right conversion.

Hi, I'm fairly new here but I've read so much here I feel like part of the furniture,

 

Like your friend, I switched over recently from K to V.

 

I was taking 1mg K at night for sleep, around 3-4 years.

 

About a month ago, without knowing about this forum or the ashton protocol, I cut my K from 1mg to 0.5mg for around a month. It wasn't too bad, I had some headaches and stuff.

 

I tried to cut from 0.5 K to 0.25 K for two days and it felt horrendous which is when I sought professional help & armed myself with some knowledge.

 

I can agree with those symptoms. "Now she’s extremely dizzy, spacey, crying and groggy.  She wasn’t like that on Klonopin." - agreed. I've decided to do a 'hard cut' if that's a valid term. My pdoc gave me a "10mg" daily allowance, but I was taking only the minimal amount to alleviate symptoms. This was 02/14/19. I took 2.5mg of V that night along with my final 0.25mg K dose, and decided to ride out the withdrawals.

 

It has taken me until tonight to feel what I would refer to as "a window", it feels like the K withdrawals are diminishing. But in saying that, the time period for everyone will be different. I can confirm the same feelings - dizzy and spaced out. I also have a very stiff neck, but my headaches are gone. The anxiety attacks which were happening in the first few days have levelled out. I wouldn't call the cutover 100% smooth, but definitely bearable.

 

Wish your friend the best of luck.

 

I would definitely say I'm "feeling" a K withdrawal + probably an overall withdrawal from taking a minimal dose of V. What I've noticed is that V can take a long time to begin acting & lasts a long time, so it doesn't have that instant gratification which K can provide (within an hour for me, and it felt like it affected my brain more than my body)

 

I also have MS (15+ year veteran now, diagnosed at 21) which complicates things more but overall I'm unaffected by it.

 

I've read a lot of horror stories here but I've picked up on a few patterns. Some people withdraw pretty quickly, and pretty easily. Others draw it out a long time. I'm no stranger to withdrawal symptoms, so I'm trying to see if a fairly fast withdrawal works. My main / only concern is really seizures, which taking max 3.75mg V a day shouldn't really happen.

 

Today is day 8 and I noticed some positive changes - my vision improved somewhat. My anxiety has lessened a great deal.

 

I used the conversion chart and personally I don't agree with it. I know from experience what 5 or 10 mg of valium feels like, and to me it's a lot more than 0.5 mg of K.

 

One example is that it converts K to V - 1mg of K can apparently be anywhere from 2.5 to 20 mg - that's a fair discrepancy. I guess there's no real answer to these questions, ie "How much V does 0.5 mg K equal?"

 

Clonazepam

Long Duration (<12 hrs)

1mg

 

Diazepam

Long Duration (Variable)

15 mg

(range 2.5 to 20 mg)

 

"When equivalence discrepancies exist in the literature, a reasonable dose range is provided to emphasize the lack of confidence in the conversions"

 

TLDR; I again hope your friend does well. I find the mornings/early afternoon (same thing for me right now) are the hardest part. I just came back from work and haven't taken any V since early this afternoon (it's almost midnight) and that was only 1.25mg of V. I know my post is fairly disjointed but TLDR; I'm expecting withdrawals from going fairly C/T especially off the K. I'm learning to deal with it. Every day gets easier. I don't think there's an easy, pain free way to get off this stuff. Some amount of suffering has to be involved to make up for the effects that were felt while on it (mostly relaxing, calm)

 

Not trying to offer any direct advice - just telling my story. I just feel everyone's different. Personally arming myself with as much knowledge as possible has made it easier / more understandable. Having ways to manage the expected symptoms is all I can offer - since there's no get out of jail free card on this one. Once I get to a fairly low dose of V (0.5mg / daily and stable) I'll probably try and C/T it from there, it's a fairly low dose in general of benzo.

 

Sorry for the long rant