Psychiatrist had me taper too fast and I'm still having tremors, shakes

Hello, hopefully someone can tell me what's going on inside my body.  I was on Klonopin .5 morning and .5 night since end of December 2017.  My psychiatrist gave me a tapering plan that had me coming off in 6 weeks!!!  I made it through the first two weeks ok but I hit a huge wall when I started the third week.  I gave up towards the end of the 4th week.  I was full of muscle spasms, twitching, joint pain, hot skin on my shins and forearms.  I told her about it and she told me to go back up to my original dosage.  So I've been back on 1mg a day but its been over two weeks and I still have the twitching, shakiness, spasms, etc...  Did i do permanent damage here?  She said there's no way I could've damaged my receptors but I don't know why I'm not back to normal after increasing dosage and it's been almost three weeks.  Will this stop at some point?  I will try to taper again using liquid titration and only 10% every two weeks but I'm afraid to do anything while I still feel like this.  Her solution was to put me on Zoloft Please let me know if anyone has been through this and if it gets better. 

Hi

Sorry you are going through this

You need to know something about these drugs once you got the withrawal symptoms they are not going to go away by up dosing that’s just not how it works ,right now the best option for you is to go with the liquid titration plan that you have in mind and come off of it very slowly and don’t worry you didn’t damage your receptors permanently they will repair and come back up after you get off the drug follow the slow taper plan

Good luck to you

thank u Ahoo.  All these tremors and shaking sucks.  She doesn't even believe it was due to her tapering me down to quickly.  She bragged about taking people off of Klonopin in four days.  I had a feeling I was going to be stuck with these shakes for a while. 

I was switched from valium to klonopin with no taper. Almost 4 months and still get tremors.. Its horrible!!!!! Hang in there. We have no choice..

Thank u Phyllis123.  Even after close to two months back at 1mg i still have all the withdrawal symptoms.  Just like builder said, i think you have to just come off slowly no matter what the docs think is right.  I told my doctor that I'm going to attempt the liquid titration at 10% or less every two weeks and she thinks that's overdoing it.  You just have to go for it.  At worst case if you're dealing with all the withdrawal symptoms regardless, you might as well finish the taper and give your body a chance to heal.  Updosing back to 1mg doesn't appear to be doing anything to help with stopping withdrawals. 

Hi livelife, sorry you're having a hard time.

I too have severe tremors between doses during the day, they settle at night.

Are yours full body or just hands?

It's horrible, and exhausting ... 😢

We will get there!! 🙏🏼

Hi Mario

 

...was hoping you could help me figure out if it's better to liquid taper one dose per day vs two smaller doses?  I've been coming down from 1mg Klonopin on a liquid taper 10% every 14 days.  Got down to .75mg and withdrawal symptoms starting again like 1st non liquid taper attempt.  I've been taking a morning dose and a evening dose (same dosage).  I'm wondering if it's smarter to take it in one dose that way your body gets a bigger dose in one shot and hopefully reduces withdrawal issues?  If it's in your bloodstream for 24 hours then I think it could hold a person till next day?  Not sure but was thinking to give it a try.  Give up the morning dose and just do the one larger nightly dose?...

In my humble opinion, provided you haven't changed medication brand meanwhile, your symptoms could have come from somewhere else than the 2 doses per day. Three possible causes:

1. The way the solution has been prepared. Which solvent did you use? How much solvent? How much water? What is the current benzo concentration of the solution (0.1 mg/ml, 0.01 mg/ml?).

2. If point 1 is cleared then we must see with the quantity you draw up. What is the way you calculated the dose? Is it in strict coordination with the concentration of the above solution? Did you use a 1 ml syringe?

3. If point 1 and 2 are cleared then the only thing left is that the 10%/14 days is too fast. I have read a number of times that buddies start to feel definitely better when they slow down to 5%, 6%/14 days.

 

The number of doses per day does play an important role when short-term benzos (Lorazepam, Alprazolam...) are involved. More doses a day will prevent inter-dose withdrawal to kick in. For Clonazepam, Diazepam, due to their long elimination half life, in most cases one or two doses a day are not that relevant. For 3.5 year I took one dose of 0.5 mg Clonazepam per night with no withdrawal symptoms. So it is rather a convenience decision when you decide to go for one dose a day. Anyway you can try just to see. It must be harmless with no expected additional symptoms.

 

Wish you all the best.

It sounds like you were only on benzos for a week ot two to begin with? How long were you on 1mg before you started tapering? If you were only on a couple weeks then i believe it was the actual 6 week taper that did you in. Someone using benzos for only a couple weeks need not taper for months on end because then it is the actual taper that is getting you hooked on the benzos, not the two weeks use. I believe what you are experiencing now is simply tolerance withdrawal. You cant stay at 1mg indefinitely without feeling wd because of tolerance. Maybe you expected not to experience any wd after your six week taper but that simply isnt true. Tapering will alleviate the wd obviously but you are still going to experience symptoms. I am curious what your initial usage was? Dont know because you havent created a usage signature.  Good luck!

My primary care physician started me with a .5 mg as needed dosage for sleeping back on December 22, 2017.  Wasn't taking it every night but took it enough to get hooked.  I tried stopping cold turkey for three days in March and it was horrible.  Talked to a psychiatrist friend of the family (not the one who had me taper in 6 weeks) and he said to stop worrying about taking Klonopin and go to 1mg until I resolve whatever anxiety issues I had.  So, unfortunately, I did that and went to 1mg from March to May.  I think I tried coming down a bit myself one more time but didn't work.  My doctor had me see a psychiatrist and she had me try to do a 6 week taper back in May.  I did four weeks out of the six but just couldn't take it anymore.  I had never experienced muscle spasms, twitches, weirdness in legs and forearms, etc.. and it scared me enough to stop and go back to 1mg a day (.5 in the morn and .5 at night).  I still had the twitches and issues but she put me on Zoloft and I did feel better.  So, I've been on Zoloft (50mg of Zoloft) since July sometime.  I started a Klonopin liquid taper (10% reduction every 14days or 2mg reduction every 28 days) late July.  As of tomorrow I'll be down to .75mg (still taking half the dose in the morning and half at night).  As soon as I hit the .7's the withdrawal symptoms started up again.  I can feel it.  Starting to lose appetite again.  I also have a new issue which is weird.  About a month and a half ago my joints started popping and cracking.  I assume it's also related to withdrawal but not sure. This pill and it's effects are unbelievable.  I wish I had done some homework before taking this pill.  Anyways, it seems withdrawal symptoms don't completely subside even when you updose again.  So this time, no matter how painful, I will continue the liquid taper to the end.  Sorry about not creating a usage signature but aside from this Klonopin and Zoloft prescription I had never taken anything aside from an antibiotic in my life.  Went from nothing to two different brain drugs in 6 months due to this pill.  I assume I'm sensitive to the meds since I'm having such issues. I'm wondering if it's smarter to take just one larger dose in the evening that way the body gets more of the Klonopin in one shot which might help relieve some of the withdrawal issues? 

Jim, I crush my 1mg tablets, (originally used to be blue but I believe there must be a shortage so now pharmacy is giving me yellow or generic I guess) in a mortar and mix the fine powder with ORA-BLEND.  I felt that might give me a more accurate dosing since it's a suspension syrup and is primarily what compounding pharmacies use to fill a liquid Klonopin prescription.  I mix 15 tablets with 150ml of ORA-BLEND so that's a 1mg per 10ml concentration.  I then use two different syringes to take the exact dose (every day it's .007ml reduction).  I use a 5ml syringe to get me close then I use a 1ml syringe to get to the exact dose.  That's how I've been doing it since day 1 and as soon as I hit the .7's boom I started feeling withdrawal symptoms from before.  I may try to slow it down if you think that the above it correct.  I'm used to the spasms and twitches and some pain but now my joints are popping and snapping.  Feels like arthritis.  Very weird. 

Hi Mario

 

now pharmacy is giving me yellow or generic

The switch from brand to generic has caused many issues to taperers as I can read from different boards. Benzo from different brands (Teva, Mylan, Actavis, Accord, etc...) actually impacts users differently at the same dose. In many cases there's seem to be a drop in effect. If we take into account the fact that there's 10% variation allowed on generic brands then it is quite possible that someone not having problem with brand name start to get them now with generic. It happens with more and more buddies.

 

mix the fine powder with ORA-BLEND

It is fine in most cases. In some other cases it seems that, contrarily to the alcohol-based solution, the compound solution can loose some effects compared to tablets due to the so called bioavailability. In few words, when transited thru the stomach the solution is treated as a real meal like fatty milk and lost in the process a portion of its potency before reaching the small intestine where benzo is optimally absorbed. The combination between this and the change of brand can exacerbate withdrawal symptoms.

 

As I see the solution is well prepared and so is the draw-up with syringes, I propose you lower your cut to 5%-6%/14 days with daily reduction and wait for a couple of weeks. Things must settle.

 

Should you need to simulate your taper schedule, go here: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

Hope you will feel better.

Hi Mario

 

now pharmacy is giving me yellow or generic

The switch from brand to generic has caused many issues to taperers as I can read from different boards. Benzo from different brands (Teva, Mylan, Actavis, Accord, etc...) actually impacts users differently at the same dose. In many cases there's seem to be a drop in effect. If we take into account the fact that there's 10% variation allowed on generic brands then it is quite possible that someone not having problem with brand name start to get them now with generic. It happens with more and more buddies.

 

mix the fine powder with ORA-BLEND

It is fine in most cases. In some other cases it seems that, contrarily to the alcohol-based solution, the compound solution can loose some effects compared to tablets due to the so called bioavailability. In few words, when transited thru the stomach the solution is treated as a real meal like fatty milk and lost in the process a portion of its potency before reaching the small intestine where benzo is optimally absorbed. The combination between this and the change of brand can exacerbate withdrawal symptoms.

 

As I see the solution is well prepared and so is the draw-up with syringes, I propose you lower your cut to 5%-6%/14 days with daily reduction and wait for a couple of weeks. Things must settle.

 

Should you need to simulate your taper schedule, go here: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

Hope you will feel better.

 

 

Just out of curiosity Jim what is “REM disorder? Thanks!

You could try getting your stupid Dr to read the Ashton Manual

 

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

 

Some good Drs allow themselves to be educated. Unfortunately most are arrogant and dangerous.

I did tell my primary care doctor and the psychiatrist about the Ashton Manual.  They never heard of it!!!  The psychiatrist kept telling me that I shouldn't be experiencing any muscle spasms or symptoms coming off the Klonopin.  She said that was not normal which made me even more nervous at the time.  Coming down now feels the same so I'm pushing forward.  New symptoms in case anyone goes through this is arthritis like pain in all joints.  That's been getting progressively worse as I come down.  Didn't have it the first time I tried but I noticed popping in my knees shortly after I went back up to 1mg a day a couple of months ago.  Spasms and twitching don't bother me anymore.  This arthritis like pain does bother me.

i hate how smug these doctors can be. Like boasting that they have taken people off in four days. Its absolute nonsense. They dont realise that they make you feel inferior when they say stuff like this...Its hard enough going through it alone to be getting comments like this. They have no idea. I hope all goes ok. Im 4 weeks or so off maybe 6 and still all over the place. I wasnt even tapered.

 

I got told its basically all in your head ignore the pains etc and they will go away. How can i ignore that i cant think my ears are jangling im shaking and jittery. The next generation of doctors will be more internet wise and better qualified to deal with benzo sufferers. We should be treated with empathy and sensitivity. Its an a insidious condition absolutley abominable. Hold on. Im not sure if you should take an antidepressent. If you have its ok just watch for any side effects that change which is hard since you have so many. Venaflexine caused severe problems for me. Remember an antidepressent generally works on seratonin which isnt really the main problem with benzo withdrawal. The only one that helped me at one time was mirtazipine but i just used it as a sleeping tablet. Sleep is important. I cant handle doctors anymore seriously.

i hate how smug these doctors can be. Like boasting that they have taken people off in four days. Its absolute nonsense. They dont realise that they make you feel inferior when they say stuff like this...Its hard enough going through it alone to be getting comments like this. They have no idea. I hope all goes ok. Im 4 weeks or so off maybe 6 and still all over the place. I wasnt even tapered.

 

I got told its basically all in your head ignore the pains etc and they will go away. How can i ignore that i cant think my ears are jangling im shaking and jittery. The next generation of doctors will be more internet wise and better qualified to deal with benzo sufferers. We should be treated with empathy and sensitivity. Its an a insidious condition absolutley abominable. Hold on. Im not sure if you should take an antidepressent. If you have its ok just watch for any side effects that change which is hard since you have so many. Venaflexine caused severe problems for me. Remember an antidepressent generally works on seratonin which isnt really the main problem with benzo withdrawal. The only one that helped me at one time was mirtazipine but i just used it as a sleeping tablet. Sleep is important. I cant handle doctors anymore seriously.

 

 

Actually I think much older Drs are probably more aware. Those that were around in the 60s remember the fallout from ‘Mothers little helper’ newer doctors have no knowledge of or training in any of this.

sorry i ment young students who are coming up. They seem more aware because they use the internet. Doctors that i know of say to avoid the internet while they read from a text book and listen to pharma companies. The internet and youtube while at times scared me, has also helped comfort me. They are in denial of benzos causing such devastation, and other psych meds. The reality and voice of people who go through this can only be truly heard, felt and understood by forums such as this. I havnt had one doctor that understands this crap..

.In the older days they where handed out like smarties and there was less knowledge for what they did to people sure barbitutes where handed out to. My granny went bonkers because of diazepam. When she stopped and went to the Dr they said she was sick and needed to stay on them to keep her better.

 

In the old days there was no internet or very little literature about this problem until ashton in the 80,s. Where now we can get comfort that these symtoms are a normal part of withdrawal and not a psychotic illness that could be easily diagnosed wrong resulting in drastic treatment...Soon this will be out there in the public domain....Its all about the opiate epidemic. The focus should be on that but more importantly the effect of man made chemicals have on the brain which can be extremtely traumatic. They can create them and tell you how they work but they cant tell you whats going wrong when they stop working or you have to stop. To me thats irrasponsible. Id be ashamed to have created something that dosnt have a cure. In the right setting sure benzos can be livesaving .

 

I run at 50% of my mental ability and it sucks ass. There is no cure for when psych meds go wrong, no antidote but a lot of patience and time. I wish medicine was looked at in a more holistic way. I wish more time had been spent exploring nature for medical remedies. An example is now the use of cbd or medical marijuana being such a help to epileptics resolving the need to give them life altering and mind numbing anticovulsants etc.  Nature holds many possibilities as the world is finally realising I hope.

 

Anyways I dont know for a fact about the younger generation being more empathetic towards this and more sensitive in  the way we can be treated. I believe they will be more savy. Anyways thats my hope and what I have learnt from this ongoing experience. Complete isolation. Infact we are the only true people that have knowledge of this probably more than the people who are meant to. I am just understanding of how you have been treated to.  Yeah current doctors are crap TBH not all but a lot. My psych is not giving me anything so in a way you are right to. She says im not mad or crazy where some would commit me. i guess i,m lucky but she sure as hell is putting me through hell...I cant even write what i want to say properly.

 

Ive to go see my addiction specialist tommorrow I fucking hate it. I feel like a baby and it makes me ashamed of what i was capable of...

 

Hey I hope things improve...