Intro about Strykergunner AKA Andy B

I have enough K right now....and I think your right...my gut told me over a week now that all the crap I've been thru medically this month is why I'm so jacked up...I will stay on 3MG's a day until I feel more stabalized and just re-due a new taper I spoze.  I'm gonna go play some xBox and clear my head.  Thanks yall'....Your all I've got.

When it comes to the misery that benzo withdrawal puts us in, we are all we've got!  This process takes a long time, our families, our friends, co-workers, hell even our Dr's don't understand what it is or why it takes so long to recover from it.  The symptoms we can't describe to others are perfectly understood here, because we've lived or are living them. 

 

For many of us, the validation we need to survive this torture can only be found here, and I've very grateful I found it.  I had no idea what was happening to me until I found this place and the Ashton Manual.  Of course when I came here I found out just how long it takes to heal and that was pretty discouraging but the good part is we do heal. 

 

Keep coming around, we'll get you through this. 

So I've done the research enough to know that this has to be tolerance withdrawal...I okay with that.  however...what do I do now?  Just take what I'm on until I feel okay and then begin my taper?  This is by far nothing near stabilization?!

This is where I run out of steam and need help from other BenzoBuddies!  I didn't taper and know nothing about what stable means.  But from what I've seen, stable doesn't feel all that good.  It's a place you reach that you almost feel you're not going to jump out of your skin or run down the street screaming. 

 

Exactly how long have you been on the 3 mgs, maybe that will help us figure out if you're going to start feeling any better.

This is by far nothing near stabilization?!

Higher doses of k don't always equal less anxiety like one would figure. In the manufacturer drug sheet the optimal dose for anxiety was like 1mg. Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure that I read the inactive metabolites of k can actually worsen symptoms like anxiety especially at higher doses. I can't tell you from personal experience because I only took 1mg/day.

 

My point is that you may feel much better as you come down in dosage. Gradual seems to be the key word with benzo wd. If doc tried to switch me to Xanax xr I would try to stay with the k. The k can be tapered easier than the xr. I've also heard that Xanax is a beast to come off. Anyways, whatever you decide I hope you feel better.

Hey guys,

  Well check it out.  I talked to the doc about all this and I even got a second opinion but the reason for the Xanax XR switch is because ever since I had the "Coleman experience" and the 2 C/T E.R. visits my anxiety was thru the roof and constant.  It's the only extended release version on Benzo my insurance pays for.  K and X are pretty much the same...the dose conversion is the same too.  This guy did care and had a couple of back up plans but I switched and I feel better.  I take one 2MG XR tab in the morning and another at night....it almost feels like too much and on Monday when I see him again I may start the taper already.  I guess he's done a crossover to XR and tapered a bunch of people.  Since it is released over time and not all at once you can got down in .5 or .25 as tolerated and it's easier than the non XR versions.  The only hard part he said which I agreed with is the end.  The longer you use it the more sensitive the final walk down is and sometimes they have to switch to regular versions when getting to the .5 and below.  The other thing he said is it if is okay and I don't wanna do that the XR taper trick is to put hours in between doses...like when I get to once a day and a low dose.....make it a day and a half between, then a day and 3/4 and 2 days, etc....I dunno-but I've put my CNS thru hell in the past month.  I'll keep you guys posted and I hope you are all doing okay.  Fire away with input and feedback!

 

Andy

I hope you are feeling better and I hope that the taper works for you.  I don't know enough about the xr versions but if you have someone who is planning to help you taper then that is great.  When will you start or do you have to stabilize first?  So the second guy agreed with the first one then?

Yes all my Doctors agreed with the new one.  It's gonna suck I know.  Even on this board there is very little knowledge of XR benzos.  It could be good or I could be another lab rat.  I hope to GOD this time around works.

Strykergunner.. I think i posted on one of your youtube videos ( thevintagegamer )  not sure if that was you or not, but i hope you are doing ok, and wish you a speedy recovery.

You're right, we don't see Xanax XR much around here, so you'll be our lab rat!    I don't doubt you might feel like 4 mg is too much, since it's much more than you were taking, I'm glad you feel better though. 

 

Maybe sometime you can fill us in on what the "Coleman experience" actually did to you, but I get the distinct impression it wasn't pleasant.  We're glad you're here, we'll support you every step of the way.

Ok. So this thread makes me very confused and i have to step in to share my experience on Xanax and Xanax XR.

 

Started Xanax XR 0.5mg twice a day in 2005 for extreme anxiety. BIG MISTAKE! I reached tolerance after about a year of taking it: the effect just stopped almost over night. Well, after that i had to take regular Xanax on top to get thru my days. Long story short: finally had to leave university in 2007 cause of the anxiety, had such bad luck to get a really stupid doctor who said i was psychotic and made me try antipsych meds. This all lead to that in 2009 my total dose of Xanax and Xanax XR was 2.25mg a day.

 

Tried tapering Xanax (regular pills) early this year, but quite soon noticed it was too much. The anxiety was way beyond tolerable. So i corrected to about 2mg and was defeated and thought i would never be off benzos. Soon i realized i had to get rid of Xanax to succeed in this. Regular Xanax has such a short half life that it makes u feel miserable (moods up and down during day) even if you're not tapering.

 

So now i'm switching to clonazepam. So far switched the regulars and yet to switch XR's. Hope the rest of the switch succeeds so i can start slow taper (titrating) maybe in august.

 

Andy, your story is very confusing to me, since i'm doing the exact opposite and yet we both have the very same goal: to be rid off benzos one day! My opinion is that Xanax XR should be banned all together. I know it works fine for a while but after that u're in trouble with it. I've heard that switching XR to regular Xanax can be very difficult. I'm glad i took the K-way even tho the switch so far hasnt been easy and i'm very afraid of the XR switch...

 

I'm sure glad you're feeling better (could be cause of Xanax, IMO, has antidepressant effects too), but cannot help but being worried about how you're gonna get off of it. Best of luck 

 

 

Last night was not too good and I had to take some benadryl to help fall asleep.  I'll be back in about an hour and I'll updtate the "Coleman Files" and talk more.  Should I do it on this thread or start a new one?  I'm still a lil' new to all this.  right now I'm doing okay but I take it one milla-second at a time...

 

Andy 

Hi Andy,

 

You can start a thread in General Withdrawal Support if you'd like to continue talking about whatever.  Or if you're ready for a blog, there's always Buddie Blogs.  Wow, I can't believe you're having trouble sleeping with the hefty dose you're taking.  That Coleman thing must have really screwed you up.  I went into a detox to get free from Klonopin, 2 doses of K and 2 Phenobarbital and they said I was done tapering, I DON'T THINK SO!  So I left that night and did it my way, cold turkey!  Not too smart come to find out. 

 

Hope to hear from you soon.

 

Pam

Hey Pam....how long were you on it?  Well I was on 2 total MGs on Clon a day.  I slowly weaned myself down to .125 but I'll have to say I was smoking herbs to help with sleep and drinking beers every now and then.  I didn't know any better.  now If I took a hit of herbs I'd go STRAIGHT into panic?!?! and I also don't touch a DROP or any form of alcohol.  Just me, a good diet, exercise and Xanax XR.  Any-who....I was at .125 at night and one night felt it was enough and just stopped....well I was having withdrawals and then went to the E.R. when I had about 5 panic attacks in the course of 2 hours....HORRIBLE...they gave me a ativan shot and sent me packin.  I got home and was told by my V.A. Doc to take just .5 Clon in the AM and again at the PM (which I did.)  I was so mad that I was goggling detox's..the only one I found that looked good was the Coleman Institute....They use the drug Flumazinel to flush out and reset your receptors or so that's what I was told.  Well the problem is that when your there you have to take lyrica ever 8 hours to keep from going into seizures and your wearing an IV pump that you take back to your ghetto and loud but expensive hotel.  They also gave me a beta blocker and another tranjuilized.  Long story short....day one in the office I was doing "okay" but that was more than likely the sugar water that the IV had the medicine Flumazinel in it.  My Dad drove me back to the hotel and I was up and down...just nerves as hell.  I took the beta blocker and it calmed me for say 20 minutes...my father walked to the place across the street to get a pizza for us.  The whole time he was gone I was PANIC ATTACKING horrible but I'm fighting it ya know.  He gets back and I can't even think about food.  I was pacing the room and on the phone with my wife and paging the Doctor (who NEVER EVER CALLED.)  I looked at my Dad and I was tearing up and loosing my mind and said...it's over...take me to the E.R. NOW!  We couldn't find it and my iPhone lost signal in the huge city all the sudden!  Go figure right!  So we see a cop...I told him to stop and ask the cop where the hospital was....we finally get there and then It's one PACKED E.R.  I guess that Richmond has a lot of drug problems so before I could get seen I had to wait about 2 hours for them to deal with all the heroin and crack folks....GHETTO E.R.  Had cops all over in there.  I was sitting in there with this man purse looking IV pump going into my arm, covered in sweat and panicking the whole time.  They get me back there in the E.R. and I tell then what happened....so they actually say they know Dr. Coleman and one of the Docs there had his cell number and called him for me....he tells me that he wants them to give me phenobarbital and to take my Clon while still have the Flumazinel IV pump?!!?!?!?!? WTF I say...NO I want it out.  So they take it out and give me yet another ativan shot and re- instate my clon.....1MG 3 times a day...and it was not even enough.  It felt as if my CNS went through so much trauma that it needed more and more clon than ever?!  Well I call the V.A. Doc and tell her.  She agrees and orders me a new bottle.  This was about a month ago....I came home and it was a good friend hung himself so I started drinking again....this was 2 weeks ago...It was about 5 days of just hard alcohol and and my clon 3 times daily.  Well I knew that was bad and stopped....I went back to just water and a good diet, I was always running about 4 times a week, no tobacco or herb or anything...just 3 MGs of clon a day and me.  It was just not enough.  I felt like I had tolerance withdrawals and I talked to my V.A. Doc and her boss....they wanted to get me into a 22 day PTSD program in Battle Creek, MI. that I am prolly going to go to here in the near future.  The problem was....why did my body want more benzos than ever before....why did I want to drink so much again....why was I so depressed and had a constant tight chest feeling of anxiety.  What I think it that I was put though so much in a period of 30 days that my CNS was fried and still is.  The 4 MGs of Xanax XR gets me though the days and partially though the nights...I still have anxiety and small bouts of panic but the new meds and healthy lifestyle help.  I just feel like the Flumazinel did something to me that was er-reversible....I've NEVER needed this much and never had my problems this bad.  It's all I think about and my wife says I obsess over this.....but It's just constant.  Tomorrow I see the new Doctor that I have.  He's the one that gave me my Xanax XR and said that he can get me off the benzos all together and he also said that I DO NOT need other meds like SSRIs.  The V.A. are always trying to give me other things but never therapy......I start ERMD tomorrow with a Doc that donates her time to vets for free thank God.  I'll ask him just how he thinks I'll get off the Benzos with this switch to the X XR....I think that the Coleman institute could benefit those who have gotten off benzo and are in withdrawal but It's not the thing to do when you are still on them.  Even the research shows this...It helps alleviate withdrawal symptoms....not a rapid detox that makes you feel good as they told me...Why is there no more research or caring on benzo dependence?  It just makes me so mad...The semi-funny thing is that this year more people have been given benzos since the recession and war...in about a year or 2 your going to see a HUGE surge of people just like us who are physically and mentally addictive to benzodiazapines and your going to see a bunch of doctors getting in trouble when they only know how to put you on but not get you off.  I wish the Army would have prescribed me heroin for my PTSD 5 years ago....at least It'd be easier to get off of. AHHHHHH  well fire away with your input and questions..

Ok, I'll start 

 

Maybe part of your sx from increasing K so much could be the K? It must be quite a shock to the body when first c/t then up again with a high dose.

 

Personally I dont understand your doctor: why put u on xanax XR that cannot be split to small enough cuts to make taper more smooth? U said the plan is to cut 0.5mg per month. I'm sure its possible to do, but its probably gonna be very nasty. Your first cut would be 12.5%, second 14%, third almost 17%, fourth 20% and so on (correct me if i calculated these wrong!). Those are quite big cuts, althought we all react very differently.

 

And why updose? From 3mg to 4mg aint no small difference in benzo dose.

 

Also what I've heard, it can be very difficult to switch from XR to regular Xanax (which u would probably have to do at some point).

 

Then again, if you're now feeling better, maybe u shouldnt rush with the taper - give yourself a rest, u have gone through so much in a short period of time. In my experience xanax does have antidepressant effects even if my doctor said it doesnt. And XR is so much better cause u dont have those nasty interdose sx during the day. But XR can also be one tough trap to get out of. And especially when the goal is to taper benzos, I just dont get it!

 

I cannot tell u what u should do, but what i can tell u is that please read and educate yourself about this as much as possible. The Ashton Manual would be good to start with. Dont just trust doctors, very few of them know nearly enough to help people off this stuff. I just dont want to see u fail again because of ignorent doctors or rush or whatever. Going slowly is the key to success!

 

 

 

 

I was on Klonopin for 5 years too, great stuff huh?  Right up until you become tolerant to it and try to withdraw from it.    We've had some folks here who have been subjected to the Flumazinel detox, gees it sounds horrible!  They pump you up with so many drugs, not knowing what is going to hurt and what's going to help.  From what I've seen, nothing helps with benzo withdrawal except time away from it.

 

I agree with you, your CNS is hammered!  Once this happens, it takes quite awhile to get things calmed down again, I've seen it take up to a month.  You're smart to get stable, hopefully it'll happen soon, because you need to get off this stuff!  Uncle Sam didn't do you any favors, that's for sure when he put you on Klonopin.  I'm worried too, I've had concerns for awhile now about our military members being drugged, I cringe when I hear their being put on Ambien too. 

 

However you decide to do this, whatever you and your Dr's work out, we'll be here to support you as you go.  It's a hard road as you've already found out but hopefully we can help allay some of your fears and let you know you're going to be okay.  Hey if I did it anyone can!  I did everything wrong and still healed, so you're going to do just fine. 

It's a lot like the wars, they give you the dope but without a exit strategy. I read your story and so sorry you had to suffer so much, I have suffered too for 20 years I have been having panic but they always pass and then I am back to *normal*. Good luck please stay strong just get stable and stay there for awhile then slowly SLOWLY  taper off, you can do this.

Hi Andy,

I agree.  Give yourself a break and stablilize.  Then taper.  You need to just coast for awhile before you put yourself through that again.  Take advantage of just feeling good for a time.

Melissa

Hi guys,

 

  Well It's been a few days since I was on here.  It's not been easy but my doctor switched me to Librium from the Xanax XR.  I know it sounds weird but he is understanding and knows about half life's and all this.  Valium and Librium are very similar but they come in capsules so near the end it makes it harder to taper.  I am going to try and get him to switch me....hopefully for the last time to Valium.  He just didn't want to because it'd make me more tired that the Librium.  I think being as how I just got done running about 4 miles on 200 MG of Librium and .5 Clon as needed will show him that I am fine.  The only problem my friends is the tinnitus.  OH MY GOD It's not that fun!  Let me tell you...It'd be  good way to torture torrorist!  He he....Sorry, the only way I ever feel better with my W/D's and taper, etc. is with comedy.  If it makes me laugh it lifts my spirits.  Sorry If I'm a little demented...that's the way I came outta' the box.  I did a loading dose yesterday but still needed a little Clon to fight the acute panic that almost **knock on wood** occurred.  I still have small rage fits and I find that the only way to get them out is by running my butt off in the evenings.  I walk the dog in the mornings and spend my days trying mostly to be out fishing or with family.  My wife works all day and this house turns into a prison when she leaves.  It seems that my panic comes at night.  Right around 9-midnight.  I know that I've been through a lot and my CNS is very very mad at me but I am a healthy 27 year old man so I think this trial and error until I'm on just Valium or heck maybe Librium and somewhat stable is my only ticket.  We all now that there IS NOT in-patient treatment that is on our side for long term benzo use.  I have never abused it.  I just finally became tolerant and when I was at the Coleman Institute (failed) put my CNS into a shock that made me UBER sensitive to everything.  I have NO stimulants, drugs, alcohol, excess sugars or junk food.  I run or walk everyday and I fight the fight.  This time next week my goal is to be on just 1 Benzo and my last Benzo....hopefully Valium.  I'll write more about my 10 day transition from K-pin to Xanax XR to K-pin/W Librium to now.  It hurts but hey...nothing good ever came easy.  This will in the long run only make me stronger.  I'll update my med list on the bottom tomorrow...I need a shower and It's time to start relaxing...or at least trying...I love you all and hang in there guys.  WE WILL ALL MAKE IT...one way or another.

 

Goodnight,

Andy B AKA StrykerGunner

P.S.-feedback?  FIRE AWAY!!!! 

Well, at least you're getting off of the Xanax, so that's a good thing!  We've had a few members on Librium, yes it's a little more challenging to taper, but it's possible if he won't switch you to Valium.  I'm glad you have a good relationship with your Dr, that really helps.  We need to have faith in someone or something to help us through this and if you feel your Dr is on your side then I'm glad!

 

Good for you for using humor, for exercising and spending time with your family, that's the best coping strategy I've seen lately.  I had tinnitus, but not as bad as I've seen around here, I'm sorry it's found you. 

 

Keep checking in, it's always a pleasure to see you've posted.

It's not been easy but my doctor switched me to Librium from the Xanax XR. 

 

Why didnt he switch u to Librium (or better to Valium) in the first place? And now you're gonna switch again!?  I'm sorry but for me this sounds like your doctor is certainly no expert when it comes to benzos. I bet he gets huge bonuses for every prescription... U have suffered enough without these extra (unnecessary) switches. I hope u can finally stabilize on one benzo and then plan the taper when u feel ready.

 

I'm still in the process of my first and hopefully last switch (hasnt been easy..) Good luck, again 

 

 

Andy,

I think it's great that you are off the xr and on the librium  It sounds like a much better plan.    Hang in there.  You will get there as will all of us. 

Hey Andy,

 

A fellow-former klono user here.  I've successfully tapered off of klono, and I am currently 10 months benzo free.  Life is good. 

 

I just wanted to chime in about the panic attacks and the tinnitus.  When I had panic attacks, they occurred only at night as well; never during the day. They would wake me out of sleep.  At one time I had a fear of my bedroom because this is where the panic attacks were occurring.  I didn't have them often, but I had them enough to be prescribed klono over a period of 8 years.  My last panic attack was 10 months ago; I had 3 panic attacks one behind the other in less than an hour.  But this time, I used my breathing and other coping skills and was able to stopped the panic attacks in their tracks; very empowering. 

 

Also, I feel you on the tinnitus; that is a withdrawal symptom that I have had since the beginning.  It's been well over a year since the tinnitus hit, but it is  under control to the point where I really don't hear it anymore.

 

Exericse is an excellent distraction while recovering from benzos; I'm hitting the gym at least 5 days a week.  Life will get better.  Take care and stay the course.

hi andy,

 

just wanted to say thank you for chatting with me yesterday...it was a bad day and u really were kind to me

 

i appreciate your friendship and kindness.

 

love, truck

any updates ? hope all is well

 

sundazed