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Hi all. I'm now 98 days off Klonopin or 15 weeks. I"m still having a lot of intrusive thoughts and depression. The intrusive thoughts are at their worse when I take a shower. I have been having some better days and then all of sudden the intrusive thoughts start again and then I get depressed. They get really repetitive.

 

Did anybody or is anybody experiencing intrusive thoughts that come and go? Does this mean I am close to healing if I'm having good days and bad days? Thanks for the support.

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Hi Jimmy,

 

Hope your doing okay. I sent you a private message. Feel free to message me back about anything you're going through.

 

The intrusive thoughts suck and when they are happening, it's the worst part of my day. I do seem to be having them less and less as the days go by. It seems to be improving.

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That's a really menacing but common symptom. It's like a ruthless voice of torment. UGH! Has not been quite so dynamic in my case. Mine has been fairly steady - not waxing or waning to any noticeable extent. Not sure that's any better or worse. I just wish I could shut it off - at least to come up for air. But to see it return has got to be terribly disconcerting.
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Yes, it seemed like I was getting better a couple months after quitting. I foolishly drank alcohol, drank caffeine, and worked out really hard. Any one of those things could have caused the depression and intrusive thoughts to start up again. I won't make any of those mistakes again until I'm healed for a very long time.
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Well done for coming off the benzos.

 

I would say that intrusive thoughts are my worst symptom. They go away if I have a window and return in a wave. It can be soul destroying when they return.

 

I think you are doing really well and that your intrusive thoughts will lessen with time. Best wishes.

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Probably one of my worst symptoms, too. All the trauma and memories and flashbacks coming back far more traumatic than when the events were actually taking place.
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Can everyone describe)define intrusive thoughts for me please.  All day I just keep self checking. I keep feeling "off" and then I say "I am fine" and I try to go back to what I was doing. I keep acting normal and everything around me is normal...but I just can't get back to just living... Just going through my day like a normal person without constantly feeling off and not like myself. Is that intrusive thoughts? Not being able to stop the obsession with "healing" and feeling normal?
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Intrusive thoughts are very common, but whether they are a symptom of coming off benzos, or a symptom of anxiety (which might have led you to benzos in the first place) is another issue.  First, recognize that everyone has intrusive thoughts, just like everyone

has anxiety. The important thing to recognize is that they are just thoughts, nothing more. My therapist told me that I should visualize

thoughts like images on a movie screen.  Picture yourself in a movie theatre, watching images on a screen.  The images flash onscreen,

and then fade.  You acknowledge them and move on.  CBT can help tremendously with dealing with intrusive thoughts--particularly mindfulness-based CBT, which teaches you to think and live in the moment, rather than fearing the future (which is what anxiety is). If it happens more commonly in the shower, have you considered listening to music in the shower to distract you from your thoughts? You can probably buy waterproof earbuds somewhere...

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  • 2 months later...
I wanted to come back to this rather than make a new post. I slept pretty good last night, yet the moment I woke up the thoughts that life's not worth it anymore and I'm never going to get better came right back to me. This has been going on since early June. I have literally done all I can to make what I assume is a symptom of withdrawal get better (did not have these thoughts prior to benzos). I'm really worried that these thoughts are permanent and that I need to figure out some sort of alternative supplement or therapy for them. Or another medication. How long do these thoughts take to disappear? The benzos have taken a minor amount of low mood and just given me the worst possible symptoms related to depression.
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I started having intrusive memories about a month after I stopped taking clonazepam. It was by far my worst withdrawal symptom, and at times it pushed me right to the edge of the ledge. But it stopped. It was very gradual, up and down, and it took a couple years, but it did stop. All the posts I've read by everyone who has had this symptom agree on that: it does, finally, go away. You just have to hang in there and keep reminding yourself, it's actually a recovery symptom. Your memory was damaged by these drugs, and as it heals, this is what happens. Also, you may notice some symptoms of obsessive-compulsive behavior during your recovery, and also some symptoms of depression. So put all that together and what you get is your memory trying to recover from benzos, but sort of biased toward the dark, depressing memories, and then you obsess about them and can't stop. And I think the same thing is actually going on with intrusive thoughts that are not memories. Your whole cognitive brain is trying to recover, but under a cloud of darkness and anxiety. So you may tend to obsess about dark thoughts and ideas. All of it goes away. Gradually, it all fades away. There were days when I couldn't talk about it, couldn't even think about it, without causing it to happen again. But now, as you can see, I can remember it and think about it and discuss it with you, and it does not start happening again. So don't give up. You will come through this. Everyone does.
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Thank you for the support, redevan. It sucks because my life is really good. I have an awesome wife and an awesome daughter. I haven't lost my job as a result of all this. Still working. Yet, the thoughts that life isn't worth it and this fight isn't worth it constantly fill my mind. Even when I am able to distract myself a little bit, they are still there like floating around in the back of my head. They aren't memories just thoughts that I can't get through this and I can't heal. No matter how many reassurances I get or how many success stories I read, I still panic that this is permanent. Sometimes seeing other people's timelines throws me into a panicked state as well. I just want to feel like myself again.
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Thank you for the support, redevan. It sucks because my life is really good. I have an awesome wife and an awesome daughter. I haven't lost my job as a result of all this. Still working. Yet, the thoughts that life isn't worth it and this fight isn't worth it constantly fill my mind. Even when I am able to distract myself a little bit, they are still there like floating around in the back of my head. They aren't memories just thoughts that I can't get through this and I can't heal. No matter how many reassurances I get or how many success stories I read, I still panic that this is permanent. Sometimes seeing other people's timelines throws me into a panicked state as well. I just want to feel like myself again.

 

My biggest problem on a steady dose of V and I've not really started tapering yet. Sadly I have lost my job and am dreading these thoughts becoming even more intense. You are lucky as your thoughts will diminish now. Mine may increase which is a scary thought.

Good luck as I think you are about to see the light.

Staz

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Thank you for the support, redevan. It sucks because my life is really good. I have an awesome wife and an awesome daughter. I haven't lost my job as a result of all this. Still working. Yet, the thoughts that life isn't worth it and this fight isn't worth it constantly fill my mind. Even when I am able to distract myself a little bit, they are still there like floating around in the back of my head. They aren't memories just thoughts that I can't get through this and I can't heal. No matter how many reassurances I get or how many success stories I read, I still panic that this is permanent. Sometimes seeing other people's timelines throws me into a panicked state as well. I just want to feel like myself again.

 

Yes, your cognition is recovering, as if waking up from a sleep, but you tend to obsess on the thoughts, and the thoughts tend to be dark and dangerous. Let me ask you this: is it worse in the morning or in the evening? Or is there no pattern?

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My biggest problem on a steady dose of V and I've not really started tapering yet. Sadly I have lost my job and am dreading these thoughts becoming even more intense. You are lucky as your thoughts will diminish now. Mine may increase which is a scary thought.

Good luck as I think you are about to see the light.

Staz

 

Staz, I tried to switch over to valium during my taper, but I had to switch back to clonazepam, because the valium made me very depressed. Have you considered that possibility, that the valium is causing some of your problems? You might feel better on a different benzo, and then you might not need all these other drugs to deal with the depression, and the insomnia caused by the antidepressant, and on and on and on - each new drug causing problems that the doctor treats with yet another new drug. Have you tried some other benzo?

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They are bad right when I wake up and when I take a shower. They come and go throughout the day at varying intensity. I haven't noticed too many patterns besides the mornings and showers. Sometimes, they are really bad in the afternoons too.
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My biggest problem on a steady dose of V and I've not really started tapering yet. Sadly I have lost my job and am dreading these thoughts becoming even more intense. You are lucky as your thoughts will diminish now. Mine may increase which is a scary thought.

Good luck as I think you are about to see the light.

Staz

 

Staz, I tried to switch over to valium during my taper, but I had to switch back to clonazepam, because the valium made me very depressed. Have you considered that possibility, that the valium is causing some of your problems? You might feel better on a different benzo, and then you might not need all these other drugs to deal with the depression, and the insomnia caused by the antidepressant, and on and on and on - each new drug causing problems that the doctor treats with yet another new drug. Have you tried some other benzo?

I have Red and was considering for Librium to cross over to for that very reason and I think you are right in that it's making things worse. But my shrink is having none of it tbh and just wants to give me a never ending list of drugs. His latest idea is for me to lower my mirt to 30mg and add Lithium. He will not admit any of my depression is due to V as his organisation broke all the guidelines here in the UK by keeping me on it for over 6 weeks then c/t'd which again breaks all the rules. He'd be admitting liability if he were to implicate the V as part of my problem. Apparently it's all my fault...chemical imbalance.....etc.

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They are bad right when I wake up and when I take a shower. They come and go throughout the day at varying intensity. I haven't noticed too many patterns besides the mornings and showers. Sometimes, they are really bad in the afternoons too.

 

Mornings were always the worst for me. Still are, actually, though not for this particular problem. I think the benzos really wreak havoc on our sleep mechanisms. Withdrawing from benzos and recovering from them, you tend to have problems getting to sleep, staying asleep, and waking up normally. I'd wake up with weird thoughts every morning. I called it my 'morning psychosis'. It felt like I was stuck in a dream-state - a nightmare, actually - for an hour or two after I'd wake up. I felt crazy. A cup of coffee and maybe some hot chocolate really helped with that. As the day wore on, I'd feel more and more normal. When I was having the intrusive memories, they were always worst in the mornings, and by evening they were usually gone - gone for good, I'd think. But then they'd be back in the morning. Every morning, at first. But then, some mornings they'd still be gone. And then I'd go a couple mornings in a row without them. And so on. Gradually they began to fade. They became less frequent and less intense. They died off. They withered away.

 

I would also point out that I had other symptoms of OCD during my recovery, and these symptoms were also worse in the morning. I had to check over and over to make sure my door was locked before I left for work. Sometimes I'd have to turn around and drive back home to check again. It was pretty bad. But it shows that this tendency to obsess over things is a withdrawal/recovery symptom.

 

By the way, I managed to keep working through this entire process. I still have the same job now that I had when I stopped taking the clonazepam. It's been a really wild ride, and it took some effort to control it and hide it at work, but I did it. I never missed a day of work because of it. Not easy, but I needed the income, and I felt better at work than at home. For the first year or two, my worst times were weekends, holidays, and vacations. My job pulled me through. So hang on to that. You will make it. Just keep telling yourself every morning, you're a little bit better, a bit more recovered than yesterday. Think about those morbidly obese people who have to lose 200 or 300 pounds. How do they get through it day to day? They have to tell themselves: OK, I've lost 1/4 pound since yesterday. It's only 1/4 pound, but at least I didn't gain 1/4 pound, right? So I'm headed in the right direction.

 

It's slow. But you'll get there if you keep going and don't look back.

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I have Red and was considering for Librium to cross over to for that very reason and I think you are right in that it's making things worse. But my shrink is having none of it tbh and just wants to give me a never ending list of drugs. His latest idea is for me to lower my mirt to 30mg and add Lithium. He will not admit any of my depression is due to V as his organisation broke all the guidelines here in the UK by keeping me on it for over 6 weeks then c/t'd which again breaks all the rules. He'd be admitting liability if he were to implicate the V as part of my problem. Apparently it's all my fault...chemical imbalance.....etc.

 

Can you get a different doctor?

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I have Red and was considering for Librium to cross over to for that very reason and I think you are right in that it's making things worse. But my shrink is having none of it tbh and just wants to give me a never ending list of drugs. His latest idea is for me to lower my mirt to 30mg and add Lithium. He will not admit any of my depression is due to V as his organisation broke all the guidelines here in the UK by keeping me on it for over 6 weeks then c/t'd which again breaks all the rules. He'd be admitting liability if he were to implicate the V as part of my problem. Apparently it's all my fault...chemical imbalance.....etc.

 

Can you get a different doctor?

The only thing I can do is request a 2nd opinion but that would be one from the same organisation.  failling that I'd have to go private Red which I'm seriously considering.

Staz

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redevan,

 

I actually just posted about having idle time and how much worse the symptoms get then. Work at least forces me to get my mind of the depression. I work as a high school teacher so I absolutely have to fake that I'm okay and get through each day and be as happy as possible. Weekends are tough for me too. I have to find constant distractions so as to not think about symptoms. Maybe that's why my summer was so difficult. I had nothing to do at all. I really hope the symptoms start improving gradually and I start to notice it. It's so hard to notice any improvement when the thoughts are always in your head.

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By the way, I managed to keep working through this entire process. I still have the same job now that I had when I stopped taking the clonazepam. It's been a really wild ride, and it took some effort to control it and hide it at work, but I did it. I never missed a day of work because of it. Not easy, but I needed the income, and I felt better at work than at home. For the first year or two, my worst times were weekends, holidays, and vacations. My job pulled me through.

 

It's slow. But you'll get there if you keep going and don't look back.

 

Hi Evan,

I too have worked throughout, even the acute phase after (ignorantly and accidentally) cold turkeying off clonazepam.  Now at 21 months I'm finally starting to function pretty well at work, but throughout, as difficult as it was, work was a lifesaver for me.  The distraction kept the intrusive thoughts at bay most of the time.  Weekends have been extremely difficult for me - it's like all the mental stuff that I push to the side during the week cascades down on me when I'm at home.  I also think it's harder on weekends because I'm just completely mentally and physically exhausted from the workweek.  I have only missed one day of work throughout wd - due to a migraine that affected my vision too much.  There was another day when I tried to walk too far, and my legs gave out, and I had to leave early.  The thought of calling in sick has been too scary for me - it's kind of an ocd thing or a lack of mental flexibility.  I feel somehow that if I can go to work I can survive this, but if I cave in and call in sick the world will end.

 

Anyway... I have a question for you. So many of your posts are so insightful and helpful.  Are you healed now?  Are you still suffering at six years off?

 

Boomboxboy,

I have all the same issues with the intrusive thoughts.  I have the constant S.I. as well, although it's starting to fade away.  The worst intrusive for me has been intrusive memories, but even the happy memories feel horrible.  Any thought of the past can make me want to cry for hours, and any thought of the future makes me want to curl up, terrified, in the fetal position.  It's crazy, but it has been very gradually fading away.  I haven't noticed any patterns.  Mornings seem to be worse for ruminating. 

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ComingHome,

 

I didn't realize you were 21 months off. I only read your signature and it only went up to month 9. Do you think taking more drugs than just a benzo for many years has made withdrawal symptoms last longer? Also, do you think quitting cold turkey made it much worse? I am so scared that I won't see any improvement for years. It scares me daily and it makes my thoughts much worse. At 21 months, I really hope you start feeling complete relief soon.

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Yeah, I cold turkeyed in December 2016. I added that update in Month 9 when I actually thought I might be getting better. Ha. Should update it. 

 

I don’t know if polydrugging (thank you, Dr. A. M.) makes it take longer to heal but I think that it adds a significant layer of complexity to the injury and therefore the symptoms.  I know that I seem to have some mental stuff that not everyone gets.  I’ve heard that anecdotally clonazepam has a worse withdrawal, but really how can we ever know. Each drug will affect everyone differently.

 

I personally don’t believe that a cold turkey means it will take longer. I definitely believe that it makes our symptoms more severe, especially in the acute phase.  The horrors of a Klonopin cold turkey. No one should ever suffer something like that.  But I know that even thecold turkey survivors heal, and I believe that our timeframes are no longer than a well-planned taper plus recovery.  We just have a much harder landing.

 

It will get easier for you the further out you get.

 

There’s a benzo-wise doctor in Vancouver who has treated thousands. He said everyone heals as long as they don’t give up too early and go back on meds. His patients have all healed between 1and 3 years, the majority between months 24 and 30. I know it seems like an impossibly long time but it gets a little easier as you go, and we all get through one day at a time. The good news is that we do all heal, and given the significant damage these “medications” do to us, that in itself is pretty miraculous.

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That's good news coming from your benzo wise doctor, that everyone heals eventually. I wish I could find a benzo wise doctor here in Montana, but I seriously doubt there is one. I guess they would probably just say the same thing and tell you time is the only solution and just keep waiting it out. I am really hoping I fall into the 6-12 month club and heal in that time frame as I was on a very low dose for a very short period of time. Have your intrusive thoughts at least decreased in intensity and amount? Do you get good breaks from them?
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