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TO: Jim Hawk/Others Need help with . . . getting started? Please!


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Hello and thanks for reading. I'm really hoping to get some good advice here because I sure as hell need it. I'm "CURRENTLY" at 1.5mg of Klonopin, taken daily for the past 4 years. . . I was on a lower of Ativan prior to that for at least another year. I'm currently in a not so great living situation, and I need to be able to take care of my ailing grandmother while I taper - nonetheless it is very important to me that I successfully complete a taper. I have failed a taper from Valium dry cutting, experiencing extreme dysphoria and Akisthisia to the point where I wound up hospitalized, and reinstated on . . . you guessed it 1.5mg Klonopin, effectively doubling my dose. Now I've been putting it off praying for a miracle drug to come out. I had somewhat of a nervous breakdown yesterday and have had unwaivering anxiety all day. I'm scared this is "tolerance".

 

Essentially I need to know what exactly I will need to taper 3 (or 4) doses of .5mg using milk to dissolve the kpin.

 

I'm currently an anxious wreck and I'm not sure I want to start a taper in this position, so I am going to talk to my doctor sometime this week about increasing to 2mg knowing full well it might increase the duration of the taper; but hopefully drastically increase the chances of success.

 

I noticed "Jim Hawk" has a nice spreadsheet calculator set up, and ran some numbers but I'm unsure if I'm doing it correctly. I'm insanely scared of reaching tolerance, before or during tapering. I want to be as functional as I possibly can be and experience as close as I can to a symptom free taper. Jim - If you read this I read that you were in favor of alcohol as it provides better bioavailability than milk - I'm in a home full of alcoholics, I cannot get away with alcohol in the home. . . Is there another solvent that works as well? PG perhaps? I notice it is kindof expensive on amazon.

 

 

I am extremely motivated to get through this taper once and for all. Whether that be at my current (possibly unstable 1.5mg or an updose to 2.0mg to even out)

 

 

Using the calculator you have provided to others, and reading your Q/A. . . I have only one or two questions other than what I listed above. . . The calculator reads to use 3/4 of a Tablet and X amount of liquid, why would I not just dissolve the entire tablet and take a full liquid dose?

 

 

My doses are split by 3x .5 = 1.5mg

 

Thank you so much for reading and I hope I am able to get some good advice.

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I'm actually reading more and answering my own questions. I didn't notice any difference switching completely over to milk in 1 day when I started a taper roughly two years ago. So I don't THINK I would notice changing one dose to liquid at a time. I.E. 1 liquid dose and two more tablets throughout the day.

 

Is there a HARD recommendation between PG and Vodka?

 

Roughly how much solvent will I need to complete a taper?

 

. . . Also, is 460 days the maximum amount of time the calculator accepts? I tested with both 1.5mg and 2mg as I'm not sure where I will stand after speaking with my doctor. Same exact timelines, I'm wondering how that is possible given the additional .5mg if I do move up to 2?

 

I really REALLY hope to be as asymptomatic as possible, though I know that's not always possible. I apologize for all of the text I am just not very confident, and I need help from those who have overcome or are overcoming this monster with a good plan, regimen and patience.

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Hi Frotob :smitten:

 

I'm sorry to learn your sickness is so rough :(. On the other side I think your determination to get rid of benzo will be key to your success. Be sure of one thing, you will be benzo free and heal.

 

Milk to dissolve benzo seems to be the most used way by buddies going liquid taper. While I certainly prefer alcohol as solvent, many buddies have healed by tapering with milk. The component in the milk that dissolves benzo is the fat. When fatty milk finishes to the stomach, it will be submitted to treatments reserved for any fatty food. In the acidic stomach environment it will undergo mechanical and chemical actions before it is ready to pass to the small intestine where it will be optimally absorbed by the vast surface of this organ. Due to these actions, when benzo arrives to the small intestine a portion of it has been lost. Knowledgeable people estimate the loss to 5-10% of the initial quantity. Others buddies found the loss much more important they likened the symptoms as cold turkey effects or placebo effects. As you seem to have no problem with milk, I think you should continue with fatty milk.

 

As for the 3 x 0.5 mg of Clonazepam vs 4 x 0.5 mg, I personally would NOT go 4 x 0.5 mg! You just hold and wait for the storm to pass. It may take many weeks but do not worry. Inheriting  an evolution of millions of years your body has a magnificent built-in mechanism (homeostasis) that will do everything to maintain a condition of equilibrium/stability when facing external changes and heals itself in the process. Without this capability, human race would have extinguished long time ago. The symptoms you are feeling are a sign that your body is fighting its way to be stable again.

 

As for the application to create a taper plan, here it is: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net . Please go first to the Help section and make sure no questions remain unanswered.

 

While using the application, you will find amongst the different options, the one with "Combine with tablets". This has been introduced to minimize the "shock" passing directly from tablet to liquid as mentioned earlier with milk. Where it is feasible with the accurate tablet split, tablet will be used. Liquid will be used only for the cut part. But you are free to use ONLY liquid. In that case set the option to off.

 

I'll let you the time to reflect on all those things. We can certainly fine tune some parameters together later on to obtain a plan that suits your needs.

 

Wish you a good start.

 

:hug:

 

 

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Thanks a bunch, unfortunately I'm not feeling much better today. I have physician approval to take 2.0mg instead of 1.5mg if I need to, and I had planned to last night but I didn't go through with it hoping today would be better.

 

The issue is, I haven't made a single cut. I've been taking the same dose for ~3.5 years. While I have experienced transient panic and anxiety, it has always passed. This has been a sort of all day thing for the past few days. . . Given I have had an extremely stressful week. . I am not sure that this all day anxiety is "organic". I don't know if it's been studied thoroughly but the thought of "tolerance withdrawal" is definitely disconcerting.

 

To be clear I absolutely do NOT want to go up to 2mg but if I need to go up to start a taper from a place of stability I have no problem doing that.

 

I kind of just wrote this to thank you for responding so quickly, but then. . . I started writing. But I certainly read what your response and I know I will have questions once I have the proper equipment to begin, but I will save those for then. Thanks again.

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I'm really struggling with the idea of increasing my dose to 2mg.

 

I haven't made any cuts to my long term dose of 1.5mg and all these symptoms pop up literally out of nowhere. I do get some relief when I take one of my doses of Klonopin, but it seems short lived in comparison. 3 days ago I had NO symptoms, I had increased the amount of cigarettes I smoked I noticed that. . . But since the anxiety and fidgetiness started. I can barely bring myself to smoke 3-4 cigs a day the past two days and I have been smoking at least a pack a day for the past month. I have had a lot of stress recently but it seemed as though I was dealing with it quite well, despite the relapse on cigarettes - I was never nicotine free I used a vaporizer for years.

 

My feeling is of very low severity akathisia, which is what stopped my original taper in the first place. Dead in it's tracks. Admittedly I've been ruminating over that thought and I'm terrified about running into SEVERE akathisia with comorbid dysphoria down the road, I feel as though it's inevitable despite how slow I go.

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