Jump to content

Supplements recommended


[Wo...]

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I've been tapering valium for nearly two years. My insomnia during this time has gone from very bad to horrendous - especially over the last six months. I will often get no sleep at all. I am now on 0.5mg of valium. I am planning to stop 0.5mg Valium on June 15.

 

One doctor has recommended Taurine, Glycine and Theanine for sleep to start only after I take my last dose of valium. I wanted to inquire about the efficacy of these supplements as I make my decision to purchase these.  I have previously read on these forums that supplements that interact with GABA may not be a good idea, especially Theanine.

 

I am doubly concerned about sleep deprivation, given that I have fluoroquinolone toxicity that pre-dates valium and long term debilitating adverse effects that have not gone away. I understand that sleep is important for body repair.

 

Thanks for your time, and for making this forum available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found that 400 mg of magnesium glycinate taken together with 500 mg or 1000 mg of taurine helped my sleep quite a bit.  Taurine taken alone didn't do anything for me, but it did have a consistently sedating effect when taken together with the magnesium glycinate.  Melatonin also helped me but not all the time.  Sometimes melatonin helped and sometimes it didn't. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found that 400 mg of magnesium glycinate taken together with 500 mg or 1000 mg of taurine helped my sleep quite a bit.  Taurine taken alone didn't do anything for me, but it did have a consistently sedating effect when taken together with the magnesium glycinate.  Melatonin also helped me but not all the time.  Sometimes melatonin helped and sometimes it didn't.

 

Thank you for your message. I will note this if I start Taurine. In fact, I have been taking Magnesium Glycinate for the past week, and I believe to has helped my sleep somewhat. Melatonin has not helped me in the past. I do not know if I will be able to continue with the Magnesium Glycinate, as, in the past, Magnesium has worsened my levaquin related joint/soft tissue pain and dryness of my eyes, mouth and fingers.

 

My sleep has actually improved to some degree right before I cut to 0.5mgs a little over two weeks ago.  Right before this it was the worst it had been during my hold at 1mg valium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Thank you for your message. I will note this if I start Taurine. In fact, I have been taking Magnesium Glycinate for the past week, and I believe to has helped my sleep somewhat. Melatonin has not helped me in the past. I do not know if I will be able to continue with the Magnesium Glycinate, as, in the past, Magnesium has worsened my levaquin related joint/soft tissue pain and dryness of my eyes, mouth and fingers.

 

My sleep has actually improved to some degree right before I cut to 0.5mgs a little over two weeks ago.  Right before this it was the worst it had been during my hold at 1mg valium.

 

I feel for you man, extreme insomnia is hell. How much are you sleeping on average? Have you tried 5-HTP or tryptophan? These sometimes help people. I can't take them myself, since I have a sensitivity to apparently every sedative known to man, but they used to help before I jumped off the benzo. Some can tolerate antidepressants, although these can be addictive as well. I've found clonidine also helps lower physiological arousal, but only take it when needed, since it can create dependence. I'd definitely stay away from any sort of supplement or drug that acts on GABA. They may work at first, but if you have a sensitivity to those things, they can make things worse and prolong the withdrawal, since they delay the body's creation of new GABA receptors.

 

Here is what the researcher Heather Ashton says about drugs to help with withdrawal: "At present, there is no conclusive evidence that any adjuvant drugs are generally helpful in alleviating withdrawal symptoms. However, in individual cases, antidepressants, beta-adrenoceptor antagonists (for palpitation and tremor), or carbamazepine (for withdrawal from high doses of benzodiazepines) may be indicated. For high-dose benzodiazepine abusers, admission to a hospital may be indicated where drug reduction can be initiated at a faster rate. On reaching more moderate dosage levels, withdrawal in these patients can be continued as for "therapeutic" dose users."

 

Not sure if you've seen this post: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=108766.0  but it pretty comprehensively covers every conceivable supplement you might try.

 

Ashton on supplements: "Some products which people have tried and found to be at best useless, at worst harmful include: mineral and vitamin supplements, valerian, St. John's Wort, kava-kava, melatonin, Rescue Remedy, BeCalm'd, choline, Noni juice, 5htp, SAMe and GABA. Most recently someone reported adverse effects from a product called Exhilarin (see Terri's Story-)” (1)"

 

Pretty depressing, but she is one of the few people who have studies benzo withdrawal comprehensively.

 

What do you find is the main thing that is preventing you from sleeping? Are you physiologically excessively aroused (heart beating too fast etc.?) or is your mind racing and anxious? Both?

 

What behavioral methods have you tried? Meditation, progressive muscle relaxation, exercise (4 hours before bed) and warm baths (2-3 hours before bed) tend to help some people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I feel for you man, extreme insomnia is hell. How much are you sleeping on average? Have you tried 5-HTP or tryptophan? These sometimes help people. I can't take them myself, since I have a sensitivity to apparently every sedative known to man, but they used to help before I jumped off the benzo. Some can tolerate antidepressants, although these can be addictive as well. I've found clonidine also helps lower physiological arousal, but only take it when needed, since it can create dependence. I'd definitely stay away from any sort of supplement or drug that acts on GABA. They may work at first, but if you have a sensitivity to those things, they can make things worse and prolong the withdrawal, since they delay the body's creation of new GABA receptors.

 

Here is what the researcher Heather Ashton says about drugs to help with withdrawal: "At present, there is no conclusive evidence that any adjuvant drugs are generally helpful in alleviating withdrawal symptoms. However, in individual cases, antidepressants, beta-adrenoceptor antagonists (for palpitation and tremor), or carbamazepine (for withdrawal from high doses of benzodiazepines) may be indicated. For high-dose benzodiazepine abusers, admission to a hospital may be indicated where drug reduction can be initiated at a faster rate. On reaching more moderate dosage levels, withdrawal in these patients can be continued as for "therapeutic" dose users."

 

Not sure if you've seen this post: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=108766.0  but it pretty comprehensively covers every conceivable supplement you might try.

 

Ashton on supplements: "Some products which people have tried and found to be at best useless, at worst harmful include: mineral and vitamin supplements, valerian, St. John's Wort, kava-kava, melatonin, Rescue Remedy, BeCalm'd, choline, Noni juice, 5htp, SAMe and GABA. Most recently someone reported adverse effects from a product called Exhilarin (see Terri's Story-)” (1)"

 

Pretty depressing, but she is one of the few people who have studies benzo withdrawal comprehensively.

 

What do you find is the main thing that is preventing you from sleeping? Are you physiologically excessively aroused (heart beating too fast etc.?) or is your mind racing and anxious? Both?

 

What behavioral methods have you tried? Meditation, progressive muscle relaxation, exercise (4 hours before bed) and warm baths (2-3 hours before bed) tend to help some people.

 

Thanks for your message, for the information and  for the pointers. I tried tryptophan about ten years ago--before Benzos or Levaquin--when I was much healthier. After a few days I got super dilated pupils. I haven't tried Tryptophan or 5-HTP since then.  I haven't tried Clonidine, but I've tried beta-blockers (rarely) for situational physical anxiety relief.

 

On bad nights, I don't sleep at all. There have been times during the taper where I won't sleep overnight, and maybe get an hour of sleep the next night, and I'm barely functioning at work. Since my cut under 1mg of valium, my sleep as improved to sometimes 5 hours of sleep a night. Although, last night was rough again with chest tension, palpitations, sweating and maybe three hours of sleep.

 

From what you say, it sounds like Theanine may be a bad idea.

 

I am divided about the cause of the insomnia. Sometimes, I think it may be y rumination/racing thoughts/ocd other times I think it’s a very mechanical, physical insomnia and due mostly to valum.  My psych thinks it's the obsessional thinking and not the valium. I waver from seeing it as a chicken egg thing (anxiety causing insomnia and insomnia causing anxiety), but my insomnia has unmistakably worsened as my taper has progressed - absolutely it has.

 

I used to meditate before the fluoroquinolone and valium. Now, when I try, it is hard to clear my mind or I am too exhausted from lack of sleep / work. It's odd, I am exhausted, but at the same time too revved up to sleep.  Again, this has gotten somewhat better after the 1mg cut.

 

I can't exercise almost at all due to significant musculoskeletal issues caused by levaquin. I wish I could.  I haven’t tried the baths.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

    FWIW I studied to be a Naturopath and Theanine is just fine, though I did not find it useful myself. The ones to watch out for are Kava Kava, Passionflower, Holy Basil aka Tulsi, Phenibut, and there may be others I am forgetting. My memory is whacked due to withdrawal. You can always do a search to ask what neurotransmitters a supplement acts upon.

 

    As for me, I am much older than most of you and have a serious, soon to be terminal, illness, and had been on Xanax 32 yrs. before starting withdrawal against advice of my doctor, who said it would kill me. That is to say that I may be more sensitive and take longer to withdraw than many of you who are young and healthy otherwise. I have been in w/d for 19 mos. now and expect 5 more mos. to go. I've been off Xanax for 5 mos. and am now in w/d from 10 mgs. valium I was put on to help with the drops in w/d. I am at 1 1/4 mgs. valium at bedtime now, dropping by 1/8 mg. every two weeks.

 

  I personally could not have done this if i had to work outside a home office or drive on so little sleep. The insomnia was not so hard during the first year of it, but this second year has gotten harder and harder. I am now sleeping 3-6 hrs. per night, and it is harder than the 1-2 hrs. per night I got the first year, since it has gone on so long.

 

    I could not do it at all without Clonidine, which I agree causes dependence, but I was already on a large dose for high blood pressure and Lyme disease seizures, so adding a little more in early morning when my cortisol soars was no big deal. I've tapered extra clonidine before and unlike benzos, it tapers easily.

 

    I also must have the supplement Seriphos, 100 mgs. 3 x each night, during the night, to handle the severe shaking from high cortisol that otherwise goes on from 5 am to 10 am every morning. My cortisol is extra high due to late stage lyme disease.

 

    I also need L-tryptophan throughout the night, about 3 grams total. I have a genetic mutation that prevents proper conversion of it into serotonin, so I need a lot and can't take 5-HTP due to the high blood pressure. Many people have this....if anti-deps do not work for you, you may have this mutation.

 

    IMO, whatever gets you off this crap that does not further the addiction is acceptable, because not sleeping is not benign to your health, and whomever is telling you that, well I would question whether they've read any of the research. At the very least, insomnia can cause massive weight gain. I've gained 36 lbs. while eating less! I also went from normal to prediabetic almost immediately and my blood pressure soared.

 

    Just my two cents.....I also think we need a class-action lawsuit against Upjohn for what they have done to so many of us in order to make a profit. I just read a blog about 7 young, healthy female doctors who went off Ativan. Only one survived it, and she had to take 4 yrs. off working and have full time nursing care in her home. The drug cos. get off scott free, despite doing this over and over and over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

benzosbegone, I agree there should be a class action suit to stop the benzo madness. We all suffer so much to be free from these drugs, yet it keeps happening each and every day to totally unsuspecting people. I went in for counseling and was then sent on to a psychiatrist for meds. I didn't ask for anything, I just needed help dealing with my marriage, after my husband refused to go with me. The shrink only said, that the Ambien she prescribed would put me to sleep and the clonazepam would keep me asleep. She then added Wellbutrin to the mix and sent me on my way. I went in every three months for  new prescriptions and nothing was ever said about the dangers of the drug, nor was I savy enough to ask. She retired and my current pcp took over prescribing the drugs. The drugs took their toll, I tried to get off and failed. I kept getting sicker. I talked to the doctor about it, he sent me to a sleep specialist, who said to me as soon as he walked in the door, "IF YOU ARE HERE FOR MORE DRUGS, YOU AREN'T GOING TO GET THEM." i said I was there for help to get off of the drugs I was on. That quieted his ego down, but he was of absolutely no help, except to take melatonin, wear yellow glasses to watch TV, etc. blah blah blah. I had been that route before, except for the yellow glasses. Finally found BB and success was mine to finally being drug free, but I'm still suffering. These drugs should never be prescribed except in a controlled hospital setting.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use theanine and taurine on occasion to help with sleep. I also regularly use magnesium, which I think helps. I am very vitamin d deficient and find that when I supplement regularly, my sleep improves. But I take D in the morning and at a fairly low dose (1,000 to 2,000 mg daily). I also just started using medical marijuana for help with sleep and nausea.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 13.5 months out, I encounter some sleepless nights every now and again.  What helps me is magnesium, potassium, and calcium at bedtime.  It works most of the time.  As far as L-Theanine, it works well for sleep, but it makes me slow and depressed the next day. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I've been tapering valium for nearly two years. My insomnia during this time has gone from very bad to horrendous - especially over the last six months. I will often get no sleep at all. I am now on 0.5mg of valium. I am planning to stop 0.5mg Valium on June 15.

 

One doctor has recommended Taurine, Glycine and Theanine for sleep to start only after I take my last dose of valium. I wanted to inquire about the efficacy of these supplements as I make my decision to purchase these.  I have previously read on these forums that supplements that interact with GABA may not be a good idea, especially Theanine.

 

I am doubly concerned about sleep deprivation, given that I have fluoroquinolone toxicity that pre-dates valium and long term debilitating adverse effects that have not gone away. I understand that sleep is important for body repair.

 

Thanks for your time, and for making this forum available.

 

I use Taurine 500 mg, L-Theanine 150 mg and magnesium for insomnia. It’s an excellent combo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I used to meditate before the fluoroquinolone and valium. Now, when I try, it is hard to clear my mind or I am too exhausted from lack of sleep / work. It's odd, I am exhausted, but at the same time too revved up to sleep.  Again, this has gotten somewhat better after the 1mg cut.

 

I can't exercise almost at all due to significant musculoskeletal issues caused by levaquin. I wish I could.  I haven’t tried the baths.

 

Working, when I was deep in the thick of wd and not sleeping much, I couldn't meditate on my own despite having practiced a variety of forms for many years. I found, however, I could meditate if someone else guided it. You tube has some great resources (enter meditation, relaxation or anything similar) or mindfulness-solutions has some good ones too: http://www.mindfulness-solution.com/DownloadMeditations.html

 

Baths are soothing and can help with sleep. They're worth doing even if they don't make you sleep just to create that conditioned response of relaxing at night.

 

I feel for you. We've all been there and some still are. Just keep hanging in there.

 

MT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  I feel for you. I struggled with insomnia during my taper, but it was brutal after I jumped. I had tried a lot of supplements and amino acids that worked for awhile, but then I decided to stop after people. in the forum suggested I should stop. That was a tough call, but it worked and my sleep slowly returned. Just when I thought I was healed, I developed horrible GI issues, resembling IBS-C. I realized I probalby was having a wave with benzo belly. However, the GI issues have been so bad that I have resorted to some supplements again. What helps me the most are Magnesium Lactate and Niacinamide at night; on some bad night VAlerian helps me. I also drink Chamomile tea for GI tummy distension and pain. All these are helping me cope with the horrible pain, bloating that I experience many times. For anxiety, before I used a combo of TAurine/theanine, it worked great, but I don't do it anymore.

 

Hope you find some relief soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to all for continued replies. Now that I am off valium, I am going to try a combination of at least glycine, and taurine along with Magnesium glycinate/lysinate chelate. I will possibly mix in theanine. 

Thank you also for the meditation suggestions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...