Ambien (Zoplicone) how to stop when...

Hi All,

 

Here is a question I can't find an answer to. I take Ambien because I can't sleep. I want to stop taking it but when I try to taper down (e.g from 7.5mg to 3.75 etc) I can't sleep. I have CFS so not sleeping is not an option. So what can I do? This has been going on for a year.

There really isn't much you can do aside from drugs.  Drug are a dead end road.  Eventually they stop working and then you need to take more to get the same effect.  You can play the drug merry-go-round and switch from drug to drug, but again, they will all eventually quit working.  Not sure how long you were on ambien or how long you have been dealing with sleeping issues.  Maybe update your signature.

 

Aloha has a lot of experience dealing with Ambien.  Maybe he will chime in?  You say sleeping is not an option as you have CFS, others have had CFS too and got off of all drugs and then went through a period of very little sleep and survived.  Your body won't begin to heal or learn how to sleep on its own until you are drug free.  Also, the recommended cut is 10% every 7-14 days for a taper.  So if you are at 7.5mg you would only cut .75mg total and stay at that amount for the first 7-14 days, then keep cutting 10% of the current dose one time every 7-14 days.  From your example you are cutting 50% (7.5 down to 3.75).

 

A very slow taper is about your only chance of avoiding a lot of WD symptoms and insomnia, but even then it is highly unlikely you won't experience at least some WD symptoms and insomnia.  Just letting you know what has been the experience of others.

Unfortunately there are not any "shortcuts" or "secret" ways to get past this.  That is why you won't find the answer you are looking for.  The only way off of Benzos of Z class drugs like Ambien, is to taper off and then endure whatever you have to in the way of WD symptoms and insomnia. There are other things you can take to help with sleep, but they all present their own problems and possible WD.  You have to decide what is best for you.

 

Good luck

Whitebeach,

The FDA prescribing information for Ambien now clearly states that males are not to take anymore than 10 mg. at a time and females only 5 mg. (don't know your gender). It also states that the drug is intended for short-term usage only. Doctors tend to ignore both of these guidlines. When taken incorrectly, all bets are off when it comes to possible drug side-effects, but there is a pretty good chance that they will exceed the mild anxienty, short-term insomnia and other listed side-effects in the prescribing info.

 

Those who get into trouble with Ambien usually find that it starts with tolerance setting in. If 5 mg. always worked fine, at some point it might stop. The real problems start when the dose is increased to make up for it. DON'T EVER START DOWN THAT PATH! You would not believe what doing so can put you through. If you have not yet reached tolerance, you should really try sticking to a tapering program and get off the drug. If tolerance has been reached than my advice is to get off the drug faster because a slow taper will just cause too severe of a roller-coaster ride of inter-dose withdrawal symptoms due to the drugs very short half-life.

 

The bottom line is that you have to get off Ambien since it only offers a temporary solution that can very easily blow-up into a long-term nightmare. You also need to stay away from other similar sleep aids and benzos since they are all very similar and offer the same dead-end trap.

 

It is very possible that you will be getting off the drug before you are set up for a severe withdrawal experience, especially if drug tolerance has not yet set in. You may still experience a period of heighten insomnia, but trust me when I say that it will be so much easier than waiting and then having to go through a rough accute withdrawal and possible protracted withdrawal. I know that CFS can be rough, but probably not nearly as rough as enduring the many consecutatve nights of zero sleep and years of greatly reduced sleep (sometimes only 2 hours a night) that those of us who waited too long to get off these sort of drugs had to endure.

 

 

 

Whitebeach,

The FDA prescribing information for Ambien now clearly states that males are not to take anymore than 10 mg. at a time and females only 5 mg. (don't know your gender). It also states that the drug is intended for short-term usage only. Doctors tend to ignore both of these guidlines. When taken incorrectly, all bets are off when it comes to possible drug side-effects, but there is a pretty good chance that they will exceed the mild anxienty, short-term insomnia and other listed side-effects in the prescribing info.

 

Those who get into trouble with Ambien usually find that it starts with tolerance setting in. If 5 mg. always worked fine, at some point it might stop. The real problems start when the dose is increased to make up for it. DON'T EVER START DOWN THAT PATH! You would not believe what doing so can put you through. If you have not yet reached tolerance, you should really try sticking to a tapering program and get off the drug. If tolerance has been reached than my advice is to get off the drug faster because a slow taper will just cause too severe of a roller-coaster ride of inter-dose withdrawal symptoms due to the drugs very short half-life.

 

The bottom line is that you have to get off Ambien since it only offers a temporary solution that can very easily blow-up into a long-term nightmare. You also need to stay away from other similar sleep aids and benzos since they are all very similar and offer the same dead-end trap.

 

It is very possible that you will be getting off the drug before you are set up for a severe withdrawal experience, especially if drug tolerance has not yet set in. You may still experience a period of heighten insomnia, but trust me when I say that it will be so much easier than waiting and then having to go through a rough accute withdrawal and possible protracted withdrawal. I know that CFS can be rough, but probably not nearly as rough as enduring the many consecutatve nights of zero sleep and years of greatly reduced sleep (sometimes only 2 hours a night) that those of us who waited too long to get off these sort of drugs had to endure.

 

Many thanks for your post!

 

Re tolerance, I have never increased from 7.5 mg. Sometimes I can sleep for 4-5 hours on half a pill (3.75mg). But often wake after a few hours, unable to go back to sleep so take the other half. I think I am close to tolerance. Prof Ashton suggests valium to replace Ambien as a taper. Do you think that is a good idea? Or if not what kind of taper should I do? You say you did it in 10 days?

 

Edit: Fixed quote box

Whitebeach,

 

If a person has grown tolerant to the drug and has already started experiencing unpleasant withdrawal symptoms between dosages, then I don't think that they would be able to handle a long drawn out taper. I was in this situation so I decided to do a rapid taper because going cold-turkey runs the possible risk of seizures (or so I heard). My withdrawal was pretty bad, but I am convinced that it would have been no better had I tried a slow taper due to the state that I was already in.

 

Many people, including my best friend, never actually developed Ambien problems, but want to get off before they do. They just back off the drug over a period of a few days and just find themselves dealing with just a little insomnia. Unfortunately, many become frightened by their first taste of a sleepless night and end up panicking. They then start an on and off usage of the drug that only ends up causing even more problems because it seems that once any withdrawal symptoms start, they have a tendency to get worse when the drug gets reintroduced and then once again withheld (kindling). Once I was off Ambien I threw out out all of my pills so that I would not cave in when things got tough. I strongly recommend this.

 

Switching to Valium might be an option if you are already experiencing withdrawal problems and want to try a taper. The idea is that Valium will help mask the potentially severe Ambien withdrawal symptoms while providing more stable blood levels due its much longer half-life. I really don't see the point of getting yourself hooked on another drug unless you are currently having severe Ambien issues.

 

In your case, since tolerance probably has not fully set in, you can try a longer taper knowing that you will have sleep problems along the way, but maybe the slower taper will lessen the overall duration of them. As long as you steadily work to lessen the dose while never increasing it, you will prevent tolerance from setting in, minimize the amount of Ambien that you will be allowing to continue entering your system while hedging your bets that you can avoid a more serious withdrawal experience.

 

Unfortunately, probably no option is going to spare you from some duration of insomnia. People just don't realize that constant use of a sleep aid is similar to not paying your taxes. Sooner or later you will have to pay and the bill will just keep getting bigger and bigger.

Okay thanks, I really appreciate some help here. I did have trouble with Valium a few years ago. My doctor didn't warn me to stop abruptly and I was pretty sick but it wasn't until weeks later that I realised what it was. I have CFS so I thought I was having a bad relapse.

 

I think now I am having withdrawal symptome because when I wake up at 3 or 4 am after taking 7.5 mg at 10 pm I feel like shit, and by 7 am I find it very very difficult to get out of bed, feel drugged. Is this a withdrawal symptom and why has it taken a year to start hapening?

 

Anyway please advise on the short method to reduce from 7.5 mg a night.

 

also I have seen much about using CBD oil or Kratom etc. I am worried that I will go on and on not sleeping and then what?!

Sorry that it is taking so long for me to answer your additional questions, but I am in Hawaii so it is earlier here and I am busy doing yard work and stuff today.

 

Typical withdrawal symptoms (besides insomnia) include heightened anxiety, increased depression and some experience muscle pains, stomach issues, tinnitus and a bunch of other stuff. Ambien changes your sleep structure so even if you are getting some sleep on it, it may not be the most restorative, leaving you tired during the day. Interdose withdrawal symptoms may take awhile to set in because it may take awhile for your brain receptors get knocked out of balance from the drug.

 

If you want to do a rapid taper you can probaly do it as fast or as slow as you want. Anything other than a cold turkey will prevent the remote chance of a seizure (which probably won't happen anyway unless you are on a lot of the drug and having pretty serious problems). In my case I decreased my 20 mg. nightly dose by 2.5 mg. per night and held for the first couple of nights for a total of 10 nights. There is no real rules for this since everyone's situation is different.

 

Insomina may persist after getting completely off the drug and depending upon your situation, it can be pretty severe and long lasting. If this does happen there dosn't seem to be a magic bullet to cure it. Only time to rebalance your GABA receptors will bring healing. In the meantime, you just have to make life-style adjustments and don't panic about the lack of sleep. We are all taught that very bad things happen without 8 good hours of sleep a night, but I did not even catch a cold during what I though for sure was an impossible amount of time to go with such a severe lack of sleep. It is unlikely that you will have as hard of a time as I did because I was in very bad trouble with Ambien, but either way acceptance as well as time is what will get you through it. 

 

Part of me wants to go the Valium route because at least then I will have something but I think your way sounds the best.

 

I live in Tasmania, so God knows what the time difference is. I lived in Oahu for a year once, Makaha, pretty rough! But this was in the 80's probably billion dollar homes now.

Yeah - your CFS is just going to get haywired by sleeping aids like Ambien or Lunesta -- over time they interfere with your sleep - rather than help.  I'm long time diagnosed with CFS/ME and my daytime fatigue is less now than when I started these drugs.  You won't really know what I am talking about until you are off.  My immune system is better off of them.  It can be done.  WBB

Yeah - your CFS is just going to get haywired by sleeping aids like Ambien or Lunesta -- over time they interfere with your sleep - rather than help.  I'm long time diagnosed with CFS/ME and my daytime fatigue is less now than when I started these drugs.  You won't really know what I am talking about until you are off.  My immune system is better off of them.  It can be done.  WBB

 

Hi, thanks, my CFS is bad right now. Which do you think is the best way for a CFSer to get off Ambien, currently taking 5.8 mg per night?

Whitebeach  I'm just across the ditch from you ...I'm slowly tapering the zopiclaine too. I like what aloha says. ( well I don't like it but you know what I mean!) I finished my Ativan taper from hell 10 months ago and gave myself a 6 month  break before starting the zopi taper. Can you believe my GP prescribed zopi to help with the benzo taper !! Anyway .. fortunatly only got to 3.75 a half a tablet but the that stopped working and I refused to go up in dose.. am on just under a quarter now and it's pretty rough .. Im Having to hold for a week .. I agree a faster taper is better than slowly but that has to be balanced with what's achievable. Holding is better than increasing I figured. I just have to try and accept the sleeplessness and not panic ..the sx always seem worse in the middle of the night . I have been blessed with an overactive bladder in this taper .. might as well sleep on the bathroom some nights ! Ah well ...

I used a jewelers scale and scraped off 5% by weight every 7 -10 days.  You can go faster.  Arrange your life for no stress if possible if insomnia is a problem.  I wish I got more sleep but I still feel better off the Lunesta.  I had a sore throat for a long time but it's dissipating the longer I am off all drugs.  If you can tolerate Melatonin or Benadryl - they might help for sleep.  Your immune system can be affected negatively by these drugs.  WBB

 

 

 

 

I heard that having an overactive bladder can be a stress response. Kind of like a puppy peeing when nervous. During the worst phase of my withdrawal I was amazed at how often I had to get up in the middle of the night. Wasn't so bad during the day when I was supposed to be awake and occupied with some task or another, but boy it was bad at night.

I heard that having an overactive bladder can be a stress response. Kind of like a puppy peeing when nervous. During the worst phase of my withdrawal I was amazed at how often I had to get up in the middle of the night. Wasn't so bad during the day when I was supposed to be awake and occupied with some task or another, but boy it was bad at night.

 

Aloha .. thankyou ! I think you are right on the button. It is anxiety/stress indeed . I had it in Ativan tapering as well a few times and I literally could be up , up to 15 times a night which was ridiculous.. I now average about 5-6 and that is mostly when I first go to bed. My biggest achievement so far in this taper is just learning to calm my body down . To just practise acceptance .. when I used to read that in tapers with what people had said I rolled my eyes. How the hell can acceptance help this nightmare. But it actually does. Just accepting that it's going to take time ...it will take as long as it takes. Fortunatly I'm not bothered too much by the panic attacks and the heart palpitations and the BP spikes .. I get a little bit anxious sometimes with the lack of sleep but can calm that by breathing through it. And that's enough ..in some ways it's exciting.. I know I'm nearly there .. a few more months and I will be drug free not just benzo free! I'm really appreciating your posts and your experience with the insomnia . I'm actually doing a liquid taper on zopiclaine. Treating it the same way I did the Ativan and that was successful for me.. zopi doesn't take kindly to the dissolving but it's working . I can be more exact now with my measurements ... cheers for your support. I need it !

You are very welcome Bozobertie (fun name). None of us fall into acceptance easily. I had a therapist that kept telling me to go with the flow and stop fighting the current, but she did not seem to understand that I was convinced that a big waterfall waited for me downstream. Humans can be amazingly adaptable. In time you can actually get sort of used to a withdrawal and you also just get burned out from fighting it. I think that is when acceptance just settles in on its own. Good luck!