Jump to content

Can you change from phenobarbital to a benzo?


[Bl...]

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

 

Im currently tapering phenobarbital after 10 years of benzo use and it’s been way to fast of a taper. (5 weeks).I  Had to redose yesterday to 16.2mg 2 times daily. I just don’t want to be on a barbiturate for any longer. Is there a way I could convert back over to valium or klonopin and restart my whole taper and make it way longer? I’m struggling big time.

 

Thanks

BlueJay1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

Im currently tapering phenobarbital after 10 years of benzo use and it’s been way to fast of a taper. (5 weeks).I  Had to redose yesterday to 16.2mg 2 times daily. I just don’t want to be on a barbiturate for any longer. Is there a way I could convert back over to valium or klonopin and restart my whole taper and make it way longer? I’m struggling big time.

 

Thanks

BlueJay1

 

Hey bluejay1-

 

I am sorry you are struggling.  I read your history about the detox center and being on benzo's at a high dose since you were 10 years old. I am sorry this happened to you. It would be helpful to others trying to respond to your posts if you update your signature to include this pertinent benzo history.

 

You seem like a very bright & intelligent person bluejay. I am glad that you have the sense & ability to research & become well informed. This will serve you well in your efforts to become free from these medications.

 

Can I ask you what specifically, what are your symptoms right now?

 

My thinking is because you are so young & you are completely off of benzo right now it MAY be better for you to just  ride this out depending exclusively on what your present symptoms are. As you may well be aware of, the phenobarbital may be masking underlying symptoms. I see you are also on gababentin which can be difficult to get off of as well.

 

This type of transition could get complicated. Maybe you ought to discuss this more in depth with your provider  and see what he is willing to do as far as reinstating & doing a properly managed slow taper. Perhaps it would be advantageous for you to put together a detailed taper plan prior to speaking with him to show him that you have done your "homework" and are very serious & committed to getting off of these meds as safely as possible. :thumbsup:

 

Hang in there bluejay..this will all work out. Keep on researching & share your new found knowledge with your provider. I wish you the very best. Keep us up to date with your progress.

 

Just holler if you need more help  :hug::smitten:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know anything about phenobarbitol, but I do know that each time I reinstated and tapered again it got harder.

I recommend you try to find ways to make other parts of your life easier during this difficult time, try to rest, self-nurture, find support from friends/family and in time it will get easier.

JKS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

 

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

 

Again thank you very much,

 

BlueJay1

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

 

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

 

Again thank you very much,

 

BlueJay1

 

Hey Buddie!

 

Thanks for sharing! I really do feel bad for every single person who suffers with the withdrawal syndrome. It is not fair but it is what it is. It is something we MUST go through to get through if that make any sense to you.

 

My hair thinned & fell out too(it all grew back) & most all of the other symptoms slowly went away too. It can take some time for long term users to fully heal. The thing about reinstatement is that you are not necessarily going to heal any quicker than if you were to stay off of benzo. Also, you can run into what I did where Reaching Tolerance becomes an issue. When this happens a person may not get a whole lot of relief when benzo is reinstated. A person could then be stuck in a long, painful withdrawal getting little to no relief from the benzo due to tolerance. So really, to reinstate & go through a drawn out taper may be counter productive to your healing in a reasonable time frame. aNot much is liear in this process. What happens to one individual may not happen to another. There are just to many varibles to accuratly prdeict how thing may or may not know. I wish there was a definitive answer for you...

 

You have a very difficult decision to make bluejay. If I were in your shoes, I would continue to SLOWLY taper off of the phenobarbital.

 

Another suggestion to help pass the time is to try to find things to keep your mind off of the difficult symptoms. I played  Lumosity Brain Games for hours. Maybe try something like this to help you keep distracted. Please do continue to work with the doctors. Try to be patient & give your body a chance to start healing on it own.

 

Our brains have tremendous healing capabilities read these links for better understanding of how the brain works & heals from these medications.

 

Explanation Neurons, Benzo & Recovery  What's happening inside your brain  Can Anyone Make sense to a Layperson 

 

Hang in there Bluejay!  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

 

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

 

Again thank you very much,

 

BlueJay1

 

Hey Buddie!

 

Thanks for sharing! I really do feel bad for every single person who suffers with the withdrawal syndrome. It is not fair but it is what it is. It is something we MUST go through to get through if that make any sense to you.

 

My hair thinned & fell out too(it all grew back) & most all of the other symptoms slowly went away too. It can take some time for long term users to fully heal. The thing about reinstatement is that you are not necessarily going to heal any quicker than if you were to stay off of benzo. Also, you can run into what I did where Reaching Tolerance becomes an issue. When this happens a person may not get a whole lot of relief when benzo is reinstated. A person could then be stuck in a long, painful withdrawal getting little to no relief from the benzo due to tolerance. So really, to reinstate & go through a drawn out taper may be counter productive to your healing in a reasonable time frame. aNot much is liear in this process. What happens to one individual may not happen to another. There are just to many varibles to accuratly prdeict how thing may or may not know. I wish there was a definitive answer for you...

 

You have a very difficult decision to make bluejay. If I were in your shoes, I would continue to SLOWLY taper off of the phenobarbital.

 

Another suggestion to help pass the time is to try to find things to keep your mind off of the difficult symptoms. I played  Lumosity Brain Games for hours. Maybe try something like this to help you keep distracted. Please do continue to work with the doctors. Try to be patient & give your body a chance to start healing on it own.

 

Our brains have tremendous healing capabilities read these links for better understanding of how the brain works & heals from these medications.

 

Explanation Neurons, Benzo & Recovery  What's happening inside your brain  Can Anyone Make sense to a Layperson 

 

Hang in there Bluejay!  :smitten:

 

Thank you so much for all of your help. I talked to the addiction doctor today and she gave me the option of continueing the phenobarbital taper or reinstating 40mg Valium and starting the Ashton Manuel. I chose to reinstate the Valium but I’m very worried about the tolerance factor now and that the Valium would be combined with the phenobarbital due to its long half life. She said to start the Valium tomorrow. What are your thoughts on this? I’m very nervous I won’t get any relief from the Valium. Again thanks a lot for your help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I posted this before but can you substitute phenobarbital with a benzo to taper? I was doing a taper off of benzos with phenobarbital but it was way to fast of a taper and wanted to slow down and follow the Ashton Manuel on Valium. Can I do this and still find some relief?

 

Thanks

BlueJay1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

 

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

 

Again thank you very much,

 

BlueJay1

 

Hey Buddie!

 

Thanks for sharing! I really do feel bad for every single person who suffers with the withdrawal syndrome. It is not fair but it is what it is. It is something we MUST go through to get through if that make any sense to you.

 

My hair thinned & fell out too(it all grew back) & most all of the other symptoms slowly went away too. It can take some time for long term users to fully heal. The thing about reinstatement is that you are not necessarily going to heal any quicker than if you were to stay off of benzo. Also, you can run into what I did where Reaching Tolerance becomes an issue. When this happens a person may not get a whole lot of relief when benzo is reinstated. A person could then be stuck in a long, painful withdrawal getting little to no relief from the benzo due to tolerance. So really, to reinstate & go through a drawn out taper may be counter productive to your healing in a reasonable time frame. aNot much is liear in this process. What happens to one individual may not happen to another. There are just to many varibles to accuratly prdeict how thing may or may not know. I wish there was a definitive answer for you...

 

You have a very difficult decision to make bluejay. If I were in your shoes, I would continue to SLOWLY taper off of the phenobarbital.

 

Another suggestion to help pass the time is to try to find things to keep your mind off of the difficult symptoms. I played  Lumosity Brain Games for hours. Maybe try something like this to help you keep distracted. Please do continue to work with the doctors. Try to be patient & give your body a chance to start healing on it own.

 

Our brains have tremendous healing capabilities read these links for better understanding of how the brain works & heals from these medications.

 

Explanation Neurons, Benzo & Recovery  What's happening inside your brain  Can Anyone Make sense to a Layperson 

 

Hang in there Bluejay!  :smitten:

 

Thank you so much for all of your help. I talked to the addiction doctor today and she gave me the option of continueing the phenobarbital taper or reinstating 40mg Valium and starting the Ashton Manuel. I chose to reinstate the Valium but I’m very worried about the tolerance factor now and that the Valium would be combined with the phenobarbital due to its long half life. She said to start the Valium tomorrow. What are your thoughts on this? I’m very nervous I won’t get any relief from the Valium. Again thanks a lot for your help.

 

Hi BlueJay1-

 

I do not quite understand what exactly she is suggesting you do. To reinstate substituting with the Valium & discontinuing the pheno or moving forward using both medications and tapering the two medications.You state "the option" either or...then you state "the Valium would be combined with the phenobarbital" so this is confusing.

 

I am not a medical professional. I think I would try to trust your doctor & try what she is suggesting. I would not worry about the tolerance factor right now. The Valium is more sedating than the Klonopin. Fear may cause even more anxiety & may also amplify other symptoms.

 

So BlueJay, just try what she is instructing you to do & give it a couple of weeks to work. Then begin tapering once you feel better able. :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry about that. I should have been more clear. I also didn’t mean to post that question 3 times in the same thread. I thought I started a new one there at some point.  Very out of it. She said to discontinue the phenobarbital and start on the Valium. I just don’t know if that’s the best thing to do. Won’t some of the phenobarbital still be in my system due to its crazy long half life? I’ve just lost a lot of trust in medical doctors over the years. I understand your not a medical professional but I respect anyone’s advice on the forum. I just feel like I might withdraw from the barbiturate if I transition over. I’m not sure. I also feel like it would be easier to taper Valium according to the Ashton Manuel. I can’t thank you enough for your help though. I don’t live in a very encouraging environment and it’s nice to know someone understands.  :)

 

-BlueJay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry about that. I should have been more clear. I also didn’t mean to post that question twice in the same thread. Very out of it. She said to discontinue the phenobarbital and start on the Valium. I just don’t know if that’s the best thing to do. Won’t some of the phenobarbital still be in my system due to its crazy long half life? I’ve just lost a lot of trust in medical doctors over the years. I understand your not a medical professional but I respect anyone’s advice on the forum. I just feel like I might withdraw from the barbiturate if I transition over. I’m not sure. I also feel like it would be easier to taper Valium according to the Ashton Manuel. I can’t thank you enough for your help though. I don’t live in a very encouraging environment and it’s nice to know someone understands.

 

-BlueJay -

 

 

 

Hi BlueJay-

 

You didn't post in the same thread . I merged the two threads because they are similar.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I read that the Phenobarbital stays in system average of 79 hours.

 

From what I have read combining both medications for extended periods of can be dangerous

 

I agree tapering according to Ashton would be easier. You should be able to taper the Valium at a pace where you feel comfortable. What kind of a taper is your doctor suggesting?

 

I am sorry you are not in a supportive environment. You will find a lot of encouragement & support here. Reach out when you need help buddie  :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just my opinion-

I know you are in a bad place right now.

I know you want it to be better.

I know anything different seems like it has to be better.

I’ve been there.

Your doctor also gave you the option of continuing the phenobarbital taper. That is what I would choose. A slow taper from 40 mg Valium at this point could take two plus years. I am concerned about reinstatement not giving gifts you relief after being off for a while.

I know Bella Amis has also seen a lot, so I’m not saying she is wrong at all! You have two choices and neither are good. But if your doctor is willing to support you with staying off the benzos then that is what I would choose. I remember vividly the day I walked into the pharmacy and got the first doses of my last round of Valium, plus a new pill box. I would give anything to take that day back.

Take care,

JKS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another option is to get off the pheno & see exactly where you stand. If you are able to handle the symptoms & are able to function day to day after being completely off Pheno for a few weeks then it would be best to not reinstate the benzo. My main concern is what lays beneath the Pheno. & can you handle the symptoms what ever they may be.... :-\

 

I would never have reinstated if I could have handled the intensity & magnitude of the symptoms. I waited 6 weeks to reinstate.

 

It is a difficult decision either way. Take your time & carefully consider ALL of your options Bluejay.  :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies from both of you. I really have no idea what to do. I'd like to switch over to the valium option but very worried I will not feel any relief due to the tolerance issue. I mean if i'm struggling on a barbiturate how would a benzo help me? I'm still having trouble finding a baseline dosage to stay at to start tapering the phenobarbital. I'm going back and forth from 1 1/2 of a pill to 2. Is there any hope for me to ever get past this since I was taking benzos at such a young age? I'm getting extremely depressed. Any advice would be great.

 

Thanks

BlueJay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies from both of you. I really have no idea what to do. I'd like to switch over to the valium option but very worried I will not feel any relief due to the tolerance issue. I mean if i'm struggling on a barbiturate how would a benzo help me? I'm still having trouble finding a baseline dosage to stay at to start tapering the phenobarbital. I'm going back and forth from 1 1/2 of a pill to 2. Is there any hope for me to ever get past this since I was taking benzos at such a young age? I'm getting extremely depressed. Any advice would be great.

 

Thanks

BlueJay

 

Hey Blue Jay-

 

Of course there is. As a matter of fact , being so young is more advantageous as your body is much more resilient & will heal much quicker than all of us old farts  :laugh:. You are lucky you are young & strong. This is to your advantage my friend! I was on this crap for over 20 years & suffered horribly from my CT & now I am pretty much healed up ... so the same will be for you too  :thumbsup:

 

Hopefully others will chime in soon with more words of wisdom & we cdan get this all figured out with you. Let me ponder your whole situation for a bit & I will try to tell you what I would do very soon. Try not to think negatively Bluejay. I know this is hard for you right now because things seem so bleak when we are suffering.

 

We are here for you buddy... :therethere::hug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Bella you’ve been so helpful. I’m just having a very hard time stabilizing at a dose I think I’m having the kindling affect. I don’t know what to do I don’t want to keep going up and down but it’s just unbearable at either dose.

 

BlueJay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...