Author Topic: Can you change from phenobarbital to a benzo?  (Read 249 times)

[Buddie]

Can you change from phenobarbital to a benzo?
« on: March 12, 2018, 04:52:37 pm »
Hey everyone,

Im currently tapering phenobarbital after 10 years of benzo use and itís been way to fast of a taper. (5 weeks).I  Had to redose yesterday to 16.2mg 2 times daily. I just donít want to be on a barbiturate for any longer. Is there a way I could convert back over to valium or klonopin and restart my whole taper and make it way longer? Iím struggling big time.

Thanks
[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 05:36:38 pm »
Hey everyone,

Im currently tapering phenobarbital after 10 years of benzo use and itís been way to fast of a taper. (5 weeks).I  Had to redose yesterday to 16.2mg 2 times daily. I just donít want to be on a barbiturate for any longer. Is there a way I could convert back over to valium or klonopin and restart my whole taper and make it way longer? Iím struggling big time.

Thanks
[...]

Hey [...]-

I am sorry you are struggling.  I read your history about the detox center and being on benzo's at a high dose since you were 10 years old. I am sorry this happened to you. It would be helpful to others trying to respond to your posts if you update your signature to include this pertinent benzo history.

You seem like a very bright & intelligent person [...]. I am glad that you have the sense & ability to research & become well informed. This will serve you well in your efforts to become free from these medications.

Can I ask you what specifically, what are your symptoms right now?

My thinking is because you are so young & you are completely off of benzo right now it MAY be better for you to just  ride this out depending exclusively on what your present symptoms are. As you may well be aware of, the phenobarbital may be masking underlying symptoms. I see you are also on gababentin which can be difficult to get off of as well.

This type of transition could get complicated. Maybe you ought to discuss this more in depth with your provider  and see what he is willing to do as far as reinstating & doing a properly managed slow taper. Perhaps it would be advantageous for you to put together a detailed taper plan prior to speaking with him to show him that you have done your "homework" and are very serious & committed to getting off of these meds as safely as possible. :thumbsup:

Hang in there [...]..this will all work out. Keep on researching & share your new found knowledge with your provider. I wish you the very best. Keep us up to date with your progress.

Just holler if you need more help  :hug: :smitten:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 05:42:55 pm »
I dont know anything about phenobarbitol, but I do know that each time I reinstated and tapered again it got harder.
I recommend you try to find ways to make other parts of your life easier during this difficult time, try to rest, self-nurture, find support from friends/family and in time it will get easier.
[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 07:13:57 pm »
I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

Again thank you very much,

[...]

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 08:45:31 pm »
I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

Again thank you very much,

[...]

Hey Buddie!

Thanks for sharing! I really do feel bad for every single person who suffers with the withdrawal syndrome. It is not fair but it is what it is. It is something we MUST go through to get through if that make any sense to you.

My hair thinned & fell out too(it all grew back) & most all of the other symptoms slowly went away too. It can take some time for long term users to fully heal. The thing about reinstatement is that you are not necessarily going to heal any quicker than if you were to stay off of benzo. Also, you can run into what I did where Reaching Tolerance becomes an issue. When this happens a person may not get a whole lot of relief when benzo is reinstated. A person could then be stuck in a long, painful withdrawal getting little to no relief from the benzo due to tolerance. So really, to reinstate & go through a drawn out taper may be counter productive to your healing in a reasonable time frame. aNot much is liear in this process. What happens to one individual may not happen to another. There are just to many varibles to accuratly prdeict how thing may or may not know. I wish there was a definitive answer for you...

You have a very difficult decision to make [...]. If I were in your shoes, I would continue to SLOWLY taper off of the phenobarbital.

Another suggestion to help pass the time is to try to find things to keep your mind off of the difficult symptoms. I played  Lumosity Brain Games for hours. Maybe try something like this to help you keep distracted. Please do continue to work with the doctors. Try to be patient & give your body a chance to start healing on it own.

Our brains have tremendous healing capabilities read these links for better understanding of how the brain works & heals from these medications.

Explanation Neurons, Benzo & Recovery   What's happening inside your brain   Can Anyone Make sense to a Layperson 

Hang in there [...]!  :smitten:



Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 01:54:44 am »
I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

Again thank you very much,

[...]

Hey Buddie!

Thanks for sharing! I really do feel bad for every single person who suffers with the withdrawal syndrome. It is not fair but it is what it is. It is something we MUST go through to get through if that make any sense to you.

My hair thinned & fell out too(it all grew back) & most all of the other symptoms slowly went away too. It can take some time for long term users to fully heal. The thing about reinstatement is that you are not necessarily going to heal any quicker than if you were to stay off of benzo. Also, you can run into what I did where Reaching Tolerance becomes an issue. When this happens a person may not get a whole lot of relief when benzo is reinstated. A person could then be stuck in a long, painful withdrawal getting little to no relief from the benzo due to tolerance. So really, to reinstate & go through a drawn out taper may be counter productive to your healing in a reasonable time frame. aNot much is liear in this process. What happens to one individual may not happen to another. There are just to many varibles to accuratly prdeict how thing may or may not know. I wish there was a definitive answer for you...

You have a very difficult decision to make [...]. If I were in your shoes, I would continue to SLOWLY taper off of the phenobarbital.

Another suggestion to help pass the time is to try to find things to keep your mind off of the difficult symptoms. I played  Lumosity Brain Games for hours. Maybe try something like this to help you keep distracted. Please do continue to work with the doctors. Try to be patient & give your body a chance to start healing on it own.

Our brains have tremendous healing capabilities read these links for better understanding of how the brain works & heals from these medications.

Explanation Neurons, Benzo & Recovery   What's happening inside your brain   Can Anyone Make sense to a Layperson 

Hang in there [...]!  :smitten:

Thank you so much for all of your help. I talked to the addiction doctor today and she gave me the option of continueing the phenobarbital taper or reinstating 40mg Valium and starting the Ashton Manuel. I chose to reinstate the Valium but Iím very worried about the tolerance factor now and that the Valium would be combined with the phenobarbital due to its long half life. She said to start the Valium tomorrow. What are your thoughts on this? Iím very nervous I wonít get any relief from the Valium. Again thanks a lot for your help.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Can you change from phenobarbital to a benzo?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 02:36:22 am »
I know I posted this before but can you substitute phenobarbital with a benzo to taper? I was doing a taper off of benzos with phenobarbital but it was way to fast of a taper and wanted to slow down and follow the Ashton Manuel on Valium. Can I do this and still find some relief?

Thanks
[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 01:52:10 pm »
I'm very grateful for the replies from both of you and the support on these forums. It's hard for me to even think straight due to the brain fog I have. Which is a big symptom for me. My hair is thinning and falling out. very dry sensitive skin with, extreme anxiety/panic, hopelessness/depression, Tremors,  my muscles are twitching periodically, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), head aches, loss of memory, basically all of the typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm terrified of everything. I cry almost all day. My mom doesn't know what to do with me anymore. I went to a very good hospital in my area and ended up in a worse state then I was prior to going there. I'm seeing my same psychiatrist later today and he still thinks it's anxiety symptoms after I mentioned withdrawal to him multiple times in the past. Tomorrow I have an appointment with an addiction specialist. I'm doing everything I can to get some sort of medical advice through this. Everything is an extreme stress for me. Even typing this out was very hard. I'm not even sure how to properly taper because I cant break up my 16.2mg phenobarbital pills. I don't want to risk doing anything else wrong.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for me or anything i'm just in extreme mental/emotional pain and have no where else to turn.

Again thank you very much,

[...]

Hey Buddie!

Thanks for sharing! I really do feel bad for every single person who suffers with the withdrawal syndrome. It is not fair but it is what it is. It is something we MUST go through to get through if that make any sense to you.

My hair thinned & fell out too(it all grew back) & most all of the other symptoms slowly went away too. It can take some time for long term users to fully heal. The thing about reinstatement is that you are not necessarily going to heal any quicker than if you were to stay off of benzo. Also, you can run into what I did where Reaching Tolerance becomes an issue. When this happens a person may not get a whole lot of relief when benzo is reinstated. A person could then be stuck in a long, painful withdrawal getting little to no relief from the benzo due to tolerance. So really, to reinstate & go through a drawn out taper may be counter productive to your healing in a reasonable time frame. aNot much is liear in this process. What happens to one individual may not happen to another. There are just to many varibles to accuratly prdeict how thing may or may not know. I wish there was a definitive answer for you...

You have a very difficult decision to make [...]. If I were in your shoes, I would continue to SLOWLY taper off of the phenobarbital.

Another suggestion to help pass the time is to try to find things to keep your mind off of the difficult symptoms. I played  Lumosity Brain Games for hours. Maybe try something like this to help you keep distracted. Please do continue to work with the doctors. Try to be patient & give your body a chance to start healing on it own.

Our brains have tremendous healing capabilities read these links for better understanding of how the brain works & heals from these medications.

Explanation Neurons, Benzo & Recovery   What's happening inside your brain   Can Anyone Make sense to a Layperson 

Hang in there [...]!  :smitten:

Thank you so much for all of your help. I talked to the addiction doctor today and she gave me the option of continueing the phenobarbital taper or reinstating 40mg Valium and starting the Ashton Manuel. I chose to reinstate the Valium but Iím very worried about the tolerance factor now and that the Valium would be combined with the phenobarbital due to its long half life. She said to start the Valium tomorrow. What are your thoughts on this? Iím very nervous I wonít get any relief from the Valium. Again thanks a lot for your help.

Hi [...]-

I do not quite understand what exactly she is suggesting you do. To reinstate substituting with the Valium & discontinuing the pheno or moving forward using both medications and tapering the two medications.You state "the option" either or...then you state "the Valium would be combined with the phenobarbital" so this is confusing.

I am not a medical professional. I think I would try to trust your doctor & try what she is suggesting. I would not worry about the tolerance factor right now. The Valium is more sedating than the Klonopin. Fear may cause even more anxiety & may also amplify other symptoms.

So [...], just try what she is instructing you to do & give it a couple of weeks to work. Then begin tapering once you feel better able. :thumbsup:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2018, 02:30:35 pm »
Sorry about that. I should have been more clear. I also didnít mean to post that question 3 times in the same thread. I thought I started a new one there at some point.  Very out of it. She said to discontinue the phenobarbital and start on the Valium. I just donít know if thatís the best thing to do. Wonít some of the phenobarbital still be in my system due to its crazy long half life? Iíve just lost a lot of trust in medical doctors over the years. I understand your not a medical professional but I respect anyoneís advice on the forum. I just feel like I might withdraw from the barbiturate if I transition over. Iím not sure. I also feel like it would be easier to taper Valium according to the Ashton Manuel. I canít thank you enough for your help though. I donít live in a very encouraging environment and itís nice to know someone understands.  :)

-[...]
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 02:54:08 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: How to get back on benzos from phenobarbital?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 02:48:19 pm »
Sorry about that. I should have been more clear. I also didnít mean to post that question twice in the same thread. Very out of it. She said to discontinue the phenobarbital and start on the Valium. I just donít know if thatís the best thing to do. Wonít some of the phenobarbital still be in my system due to its crazy long half life? Iíve just lost a lot of trust in medical doctors over the years. I understand your not a medical professional but I respect anyoneís advice on the forum. I just feel like I might withdraw from the barbiturate if I transition over. Iím not sure. I also feel like it would be easier to taper Valium according to the Ashton Manuel. I canít thank you enough for your help though. I donít live in a very encouraging environment and itís nice to know someone understands.

-[...] -



Hi [...]-

You didn't post in the same thread . I merged the two threads because they are similar.

Thanks for the clarification.

I read that the Phenobarbital stays in system average of 79 hours.

From what I have read combining both medications for extended periods of can be dangerous

I agree tapering according to Ashton would be easier. You should be able to taper the Valium at a pace where you feel comfortable. What kind of a taper is your doctor suggesting?

I am sorry you are not in a supportive environment. You will find a lot of encouragement & support here. Reach out when you need help buddie  :thumbsup:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.