Looking for others who have tried many things and can't stabilize

So after my failed attempt at a daily liquid microtaper in November of 2016 when I got from 1.5 mg's of Klonopin down from 2.5 and my subsequent updose back to 2 and ultimately 2.5 I feel like I have been all over the map. In 2017 I feel like I tried a zillion things to try and stabilize and little did I know that every change I was making was just confusing and pissing off my body and my brain more. Just off the top of my head during the period I:

 

-Had a three week stint on Gabapentin

-Tried a Valium substitution with inadequate Ashton equivalencies

-Made many attempts to begin a new liquid taper, often by trying new methods such as spreading out the doses more or taking partial dry and partial liquid

-Had a failed Valium substitution

-Kept the extra Valium pills and took roughly 4 10 mg pills a month for several months, usually cutting my Klonopin dosage as for some reason I thought that as long as the total amount of benzo was the same that it didn't matter

-Had two failed daily dry cut tapers using a scale, nail file and razor and subsequent updoses back to 2.5 mg's

-Updosed to 3 mg's of Klonopin for 4 days

-Had a few updoses of Ativan while in the ER

-Tried different dosing techniques for my Klonopin such as 5 x .5 mg's, 1 mg, 1 mg and .5 mg's, etc.

-Spent 10 days on Amitriptyline and Propranolol

-Tried to make a solution using OraPlus that only lasted for one day

 

I feel like such an idiot for making all these changes as now I am a bedridden mess. At the beginning of all of this I updosed in an attempt to stabilize as I thought things were bad but I could watch TV, go for short walks, watch movies/sports, do a pretty intense 30 minute yoga routine. Now I cannot do any of that and every day is like a bad acid trip full of insane DP/DR, dizziness, rage, depression, fatigue, agoraphobia, inability to concentrate on anything, health anxiety and many other debilitating symptoms. I also can't seem to get started on any sort of taper, liquid or dry, as I immediately go from "horrible" to "unbearable".

 

I clearly have not kept things even and I am fully paying the price for that but it would be helpful to know that there are others out there in similiar situations as I really am starting to feel completely hopeless. Everyone keeps telling me "[You] will heal." eventually but with the way I've screwed up my central nervous system I just can't stop ruminating on how much of a mess I've made of things. I'm fighting back tears as I write this. I just want to get started on a taper. I know it's going to suck at this point but I just want it to be tolerable so I can get moving in the right direction at least. Everything I did over this past year was very stupid but I did everything in an attempt to just get some relief.

 

Bumping this up.

Everything I did over this past year was very stupid but I did everything in an attempt to just get some relief.

 

I really hope some others with more experience can chime in and give you better information than I could. You cannot be too hard on yourself because like you said, you've done everything with the aim of getting off Klonopin. Sometimes, I feel like we fail and suffer in order to understand things better. Even though you are in a weak position physically and mentally, you are in a stronger position for coming up with a different plan. You've suffered to know what DOESN'T work, you just need to find what DOES.

Thanks. I'm just so unstable I can't seem to make any progress at all. Even if I dose at different times my body feels like I've made a huge cut. I just feel like I've become so sensitized to everything. I spend every day laying in the dark afraid to move. Not sure how long it can go on like this. I'm so horribly depressed.

Thanks. I'm just so unstable I can't seem to make any progress at all. Even if I dose at different times my body feels like I've made a huge cut. I just feel like I've become so sensitized to everything. I spend every day laying in the dark afraid to move. Not sure how long it can go on like this. I'm so horribly depressed.

 

How is your sleep? Lack of sleep will absolutely magnify and make you seem like you cannot go on. I went through it for two months recently and was ready to end things a couple of times but I realised that days were going by, then weeks and before I knew it two months had passed and I was still here. That is when I realised I could do it, I know that some kind of suffering is still ahead of me but one day I will be on the other end looking back wondering how time actually passed. My sleep has stabilised to about 3-4 hours of proper sleep and that has changed me 'overnight'. One bad night and I was ready to end it, then one good night and I was ready to fight it. For some though, sleep is a constant struggle and they are yet to find a reliable answer but what I am saying is, lack of it makes everything far worse than it would be after a decent bit of sleep.

 

I'm was the most depressed I'd ever been in my life recently but the tiniest change gave me a little bit of hope and that helped a lot. You might suddenly stabilise, you might not be perfect but a the most stable in months and that will change your whole outlook.

 

Maybe you should look back and ask yourself 'what advice would you give yourself three years ago' or maybe even the beginning of last year. If your answer is to avoid all the things that has destabilised your CNS, then you know that stabilising is the only answer. Maybe try four weeks of religious dosing, same medications, same doses at the same times of day without fail. To most that would sound impossible but trust me, as I've said, four weeks will pass and like I've done, you look back saying 'what if i never changed anything'. Most people still suffer even when not changing anything but it seems like it's what you need and something you are saying in so many ways.

 

Don't feel so guilty about just 'existing' lying in the dark. You have very good reason for it, it's keeping you calmer (not calm, just calmer than doing anything else). If you stabilise a little in four weeks, you'll be up doing things and your depression will suddenly shift to not being able to exercise yet 

 

You can do it man, I took Amitriptyline, Hydroxyzine, Propranolol, Zopiclone, Diazpem, Mirtazapine in December all at different doses and all in a panic to sort out symptoms.

Thanks. I mean I have tried holding in the past and it hasn't helped. I'm just so scared that I'm not going to stabilize because I can't tolerate this. I'm a physical, emotional and mental wreck right now. I woke up the other day and was so scared I immediately started crying and saying "I can't do this anymore.". I called my mom like whimpering and had her meet me at the ER but it was totally pointless as they just label it "anxiety" and do nothing to help.

Have you tried a micro taper yet? You may have better luck going very slowly but steadily.

Yes I did a daily liquid microtaper for ten months in 2016. And more recently I've tried two dry microtaper using a scale and nail file/razor. I seem to feel every cut no matter how tiny.

 

Johnny - My sleep is strange. If I fall asleep at a normal hour like I did last night around 10:30 I will without fail wake up an hour or so later and be wide awake. Most nights I can't fall asleep until very early in the morning, most nights around sunrise do I end up sleeping very late into the afternoon.

I am going to say to hold until you feel better.  I would not start tapering again now. 

 

When I was kindled it took about a year to feel better.  I remember months 3 & 4 after reinstating being the worst.  I actually felt a lot better a year and a half later.  I can remember feeling almost normal and happy.  I know that is a really long time but I did get better and so will you.

But it's been a year and four months since I reinstated. I have held for months at a time and did not feel any better. I think I am kindled to the point that I am just going to have to suffer as I get off and hope I feel better as I get lower. I do not want to hold for a year with no guarantee that it will even stabilize me.

Fuzzy,

 

Feel for you I am like you, lying in the dark.  Have gone from not being able to do much to not even wanting to think about it.

 

Just gave up my last crumb of clonopin, tho still on valium, and not sleeping and can't sustain this.  Really thinking of reinstating clonopin after all this time..... I don't know what to do either.

 

At least you have a Mom to call, that is a good thing, huh?

 

We should talk maybe...  sigh...   

Sure you can PM me and I'd be willing to talk by phone tomorrow if you want. Totally up to you. But I'm sorry that you're suffering too.

Hi fuzzy l can't see by your signature and you probably don't want to try this however have you considered an antidepressant medication to help you with your taper

I'm considering it because I am without a doubt very depressed but I have tried many in the past (Wellbutrin, Prozac, Celexa, Lexapro) and none of them made me feel any better and I was a lot more stable then. Plus it would be yet another change to confuse my system so I don't know.

I would advise instead of an SSRI try a trycyclic antidepressant they seem to be more useful when dealing with benzo withdrawal. I would seriously consider it.I know you will feel worse for the first 3 or 4 weeks however it could help a lot.

I have been in exactly the same desperate situation. I would rather have crawled out of my own skin, and scream out my despair on the balcony with a megaphone. But it's not so now, it's gotten better. I have tested vitamins, Ginko-Biloba, CDB oil, herb tea and just everything I could find.

But now, after all, I understand that all additions only caused damage (which of course is very individual). Gabapentin was the worst, after 6 months I was back to the emergency phase and was on box 1 again.

 

I have also made desperate attempts to stabilize (during earlier release). Read Ashton's manual that "you can`t do it the way you want, then you'll have to wait forever". The nervous system should then be demolished and rebuilt. So it seems to be correct, there are many reconstructions in the brain  and then it's hard to stabilize.

 

I did a CT after being polydrugged for 25 years. I now understand that there is nothing I can do, the brain and nervous system need to heal in peace. There is only one sad advice, and it is time and distraction. I really wish there was something better and more fun.

 

My story: After 25 months on the couch it's quite messy here at home. What I would have done was ask for help with cleaning and a well-stocked refrigerator during the time I had  appetite. I surrendered, tied me down and my family and friends promised to help me with everything practical. Then I have taken my second, minute and hour. In some way it has now been 2 years, how I just don`t know.

I know you're protesting that I'm writing "better times, you'll be fine  - but it takes time". So time and distraction are the only (bad) advice I can come with.

 

I have tested both varieties with antidepressant, but for my part it didn`t work att all. I felt terribly bad, and the body and brain felt like "meltdown and a pressure cooker". But if you feel badly psychic then it may be a must.  Because some don`t  even tolerate vitamins I think it's quite so stressful to put in another chemical preparation. But of course it is quite individual, maybe I was extra sensitive

 

Time and distraction, perfect. I've already been bedridden for a year, what's another 25 months, eh?

 

I've tried amitriptyline which is a TCAand it did not make me feel better.

 

 

The problem with antidepressants are one doesn't suit all so you have to try another which may work.

Time and distraction, perfect. I've already been bedridden for a year, what's another 25 months, eh?

 

I've tried amitriptyline which is a TCAand it did not make me feel better.

 

I pretty much stabilized immediately using remeron. My issue with my taper was anxiety, insomnia, and vomiting. It helped with all. Unfortunately, doesn't seem to help much anymore with sleep but it does help with the rest.

 

I for one would do anything to get stable even if it meant a very large updose and then a hold. I don't know if you have a doctor who can work with you to get you stable. Wouldn't going up and feeling better be an improvement? That is just what I would do, obviously may not work for you.

I've come across a few people on here who had a change in luck once they went on Mirtazapine (Remeron). I'm pretty sure it's probably the reason I'd never had any sleep problems during my previous withdrawals from benzos. But of course, it has it's own withdrawals (insomnia, nausea, itching, no appetite etc) so anyone ever considering it (talk to doctor first of course  ) be aware you will be adding another drug you will have to taper off.

 

The reason I am back on benzos is because I didn't expect any withdrawals from Mirtazapine 

 

I only mentioned sleep because I wasn't prepared for how bad benzo withdrawal symptoms actually are when you don't have proper sleep 

 

Keep your head up FuzzyDunlop, something has got to come around.

There's no guarantee that a large updose would stabilize me. If I knew that it would I would 100% do it. There's just no guarantees and it has made many others much sicker. I honestly don't know what to do.

How long has it been since you stopped taking the valium as needed?

Several months. I'm not sure exactly when but probably September or October.

Oh wow.  That seems like a generous amount of time since the valium.  Have things been improving at all? 

 

 

No not at all. My depersonalization/derealization and the fact that I feel completely foreign in my own house made me start crying in terror again at dinner tonight. I'm sitting here feeling like I've had a lobotomy. I've never been worse and I'm really quite scared. I don't want to go to a psych ward.