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>:( I have gone in two years from a 34 year Xanax prescription given when "Panic Disorder" was a mystery. I would like to keep my hopes up that I have not completely burnt out my GABA sleep receptors but I went Benzo free for 6 weeks trying to get back to work but after the 6Th week and absolutely no sleep i had to resign. I just want to know if there are buddies who have been on the drug for as long as me and what to do about giving up hope. I am down to 3 10 milligrams three times a day which do not affect me the least. I was then given as a last resort Raquel and all I can say about that drug is it can be worse than banzais and i do not want to trade one for another. I have to have some hope. Raquel I am not taking. I managed to go from 4mg Xanax, to 4 mgs klonopin down to these diazapam. I would like to see the results of moving off the diazapam but I feel the sleep deprivation really drives me insane. The seraquel will help you sleep but the black box warning is awful. It should be taken off the market. Please give me some courage and steps. This is my first post, so have mercy.
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stlsrms,

 

I'm so sorry you're suffering with the dreadful insomnia, as so many on here are. (I do think you're very wise to avoid seroquel.) Just to give you some hope: I've read hundreds of success stories on here, and insomnia in those cases all resolved in time. Unfortunately, there's no short cut and it can take quite a while for some, but you will get there eventually.

 

Things that have helped some folks on here (although everyone's different) - worth a try:

- High-dose magnesium glycinate

- Melatonin

- Sticking to early nights and a rigid sleep routine, if possible

- Guided sleep meditations (I find the Honest Guys on youtube very helpful.)

 

I'm hoping others will chime in with more suggestions. Wishing you strength and full healing. Good luck!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am down to diazapam from 34 years of Xanax Klonopin, 30 Milligrams but it does not do anything for my sleep so sometimes I just take nothing. I have no idea the dose to get at least some sleep. I also found seroquel makes you want to eat every hour. It is not the elusive drug unless you want to weigh a lot and eventually have worse issues. I live in St. Louis MO and I just finished Matt Samat book but too much rock climbing and no enough help. Is there a support group here in st louis because I am out here wailing and no help because I have no idea if there is. There should be if I have to start it myself. Also is there any addiction Benzo withdrawal doctors who are not full of it and on the "they have no idea how to withdrawal  group" It is really frustrating that we deal with this awful insomnia, withdrawal symptoms of which most I am over, who knows when I get lower I may flip uncontrollably like I did coming off Xanax,klonopin, it was hell. becides the no sleep. I am on SSDI finally but at 62 I may not sleep till I am 65 with 30 plus years of addiction. It is the not knowing that is so much hell. You have to work, you cannot live off SSDI. But you cannot not sleep and expect to work. every drug I am given and I gave this new Dr. the Ashton Manual but he added Seraquel which made me wonder about his dedication, or care for us. He makes his living treating users. Again any help on support groups around St. Louis that are legitimate and not affilicate with these halfway detox centers? Plus anyone who knows a Dr. who can give me real advice. I went 6 weeks straight no sleep trying to get back to work. I had to give it up. I was becoming more irritable.  :tickedoff:I had a Dr. for 15 years and when I asked how long to detox, he said 4 days. That is when I left his sorry butt. However this is a wild goose chase and should not be except for unknowing Dr.'s and big pharma.

 

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Stlsrms,

 

Sorry to hear about your horrible insomnia.  I would search posts from MTfan.  She was on drugs almost as long as you and now gets 5+ hours per night of light broken sleep, which is better than no sleep.  30Mg Valium is equal to about 1 to 2mg of Xanax.  I was never on more than 2mg of Xanax.  The reason the drugs no longer work is that you reached tolerance.  You need even a higher dose for them to put you to sleep.  I don't know if tapering will work, but the Ashton manual has taper plans.  Another recovery site, Point of Return, has a Dr in Texas, San Antonio I believe, that could help you get you on a taper plan if the Ashton plan doesn't work.  There is also a entire section on this site devoted to tapering.

 

The other thing is you quit Cold Turkey after being on 34 years.  I was on 3 months and did a cold turkey and I paid a heavy price for it.  Cold turkeys are not recommended.  I would definitely try to find a benzo-wise doctor in the St. Louis area, one that understands Benzo Withdrawal.  I would think in a city that size there has to be one.  Any doctor that says 4 days is clueless.  Most doctors are clueless about Benzos and SSRIs and that is why most people are on this site.  It is possible to recover from this. 

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;D Thank you so much for giving me a name. I would think also there are other sufferers from my area and I will seek them out. There is definitely a need for education from buddies because most doctors are not taught anything about withdrawal and its hazards. Yes you are right about the diazapam nothing,even at that dose. I picked up Seraquel not my ideal solution because just another withdrawal but it does afford some sleep and after a month of none. Reliving how sleep should be is so welcome it changes your outlook to how maybe someday be free of all these meds that have horrible withdrawal but mostly insomnia as their worst symptom or side effect. I am so glad I found this site because explaining this to someone who has no idea about the drugs is useless to say the least. You get so afraid to take anything and everything even after the worst withdrawal symptoms just linger. The site gives me hope, gives us all hope because there are few gathered together. Thanks for the Dr. referral. It is hard in any metropolitan area to find a true addiction in benzo withdrawal because most Dr's I encountered even my private MD of 25 years when I told him I do not sleep at all he said "I was delusional" The sleep clinic I was referred to said if I did not sleep for 6 weeks I would be dead. I told her well I did not sleep and it is not at all apnea. I found she knew little about her job just with that answer. Plus sleep clinics are focused on apnea and nothing else and charge insurance fees out of this world. I will find similar sufferers and thank you for the reply.
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Getting some help for insomnia has been a perpetual challenge for us.

 

During my taper I used Unisom Sleep Tabs -- half a 25 mg tab worked like a charm. This is available at any drugstore or through Amazon. o prescription required. It is not addictive. It is really just an antihistamine.

 

Some people use Benadryl. But it did not work as well for me as Unisom.

 

Anther thing that helped is marijuana -- I don't know where you live or if it's legal there. A high THC Indica works for me. I still take it. I learned how to make a tincture so I don't have to smoke or vape. Just a few drops in a bit of juice before I go to bed works fine. It relaxes you right into sleep. And no morning hangover.

 

If it were me, I wouldn't take the Seroquel. Just something else to become tolerant to, and then have to taper off of.

 

Hope these ideas help you.

 

Katz

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Stlsrms,

 

I know you're deep in the weeds right now and don't see a way out. When I was early in this process I found it helpful to read things like Baylissa Frederick's Recovery and Renewal. She has excellent resources on her website too: https://baylissa.com/

 

I wrote you a longer post on Theways thread for insomnia (the one that pushed your buttons). It's hard to believe this gets better but it does. I remember so clearly being where you are now. Hang in there.

 

MT

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;D ;D Oh I am sorry for that button pushed reply. I just experienced something close to death because of parents who thought "tough love" was their way of resolve the 19 year olds problem. Well she jumped off a building and lived. So I scratch tough love from vocabulary. I also have my family who are tough loving me to get me motivated to do what I do not know. They just do not speak to me I am to guess why.  I will read the original again because I only got so far and I got a bit upset when I seen those two words. If you can help me get at least 5 hours that would be fine. Right now it is Seraquel which has insomnia issues for insomnia issues. take one for benzo withdrawal insomnia and take whatever for Seraquel. Sorry for the rant, we need to be pretty strong to get through this and no one needs more stress.  :angel:

 

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Stlrms,

 

First I would suggest you let go of the belief that you have to have some set amount of sleep to make it. 5 hours would be lovely but you can make do without it. For me it was like prying my fingers off of something I held too tightly-that I had to have 9 hours sleep (which then became 8, 6, 2-4) until I realized I managed to go to work, exercise and even socialize with zero sleep. That way any sleep I got was bonus. This removes a layer of panic about it.

 

Are you following sleep hygiene rules? http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Info-sleep%20hygiene.pdf  Especially I'd recommend cutting caffeine out, avoiding sources of blue light at night (there are programs that filter it out on computers and phones and if you must watch TV there are blue light filtering glasses), abstaining from alcohol, reducing or eliminating sweets (they drive up cortisol which we already have too much of and interferes with sleep), avoid being in bed or lying down during the day, getting some exercise early in the day, and focusing on other things.

 

It can seem like you have to live like a monk for wd. That can be frustrating but it's also liberating. What many of us have found is that wd has driven us to be healthier and take better care of our bodies than ever. This can have huge health ramifications in vastly improve our lives down the road even if you don't feel it now.

 

It's hard to emphasize how important it is to reduce your focus on sleep. I know. That's like being underwater and not thinking about your next breath. The truth is, because of changes in our brains and chemistry, we can survive with far less sleep than normal people. It feels lousy but it's quite possible.

 

A common question is how do you fill the time? Distraction is extremely helpful. One of the things I noticed was the more I had on my to do list, the faster the day went. So whether it's work tasks, laundry, running errands, coloring, watching some favorite programs, or whatever, having some structure to your day helps. Evening structure is especially important-not so much what you choose as that you have it. I used to watch TV until 9 or 10 wearing my blue light filtering glasses, then web around on enjoyable websites (not BB, since that is stimulating and reminds you of your problems) like imgur.com or comedy sites (I have f.lux to filter blue light on my computer) and or read. Then at 11:30 or 12 I'd take a hot bath so 1-2 hours later my body would cool and be more receptive to sleep. I'd read some more then swing back and forth between practicing some form of meditation (see youtube or mindfulnesssolution.com or guided body scan) then read some more. Young adult fiction is easy to read when you can't concentrate well. If I felt I was a bit drowsy I'd lie in bed practicing deep breathing and travel in my imagination to give my mind something to do other than wonder, "Am I going to sleep tonight? I just have to get some sleep. Dammit. I'm not drowsy..." I'd review the plot in books I read, TV shows, or try to remember every detail of my walk. Sometimes I'd go to my happy place (up in a tree on a soft mattress with a gentle breeze) and bring to mind as much sensory detail as possible. Either I'd drop off for a bit or at least I'd pass the sleepless time a bit more pleasantly. I used to call those nights sleep-free but rest focused.

 

If you put in that time resting, deep breathing, using relaxation strategies, your body will experience it as rest and you'll be OK. It's not as good as sleep but it will keep you going. The important thing is to not chase sleep too desperately like a butterfly or it flies away. You have to come at it sideways. Shift your goal to relaxing instead of sleeping and repeatedly remind yourself that you'll be OK. Over and over I'd tell myself, "You can survive without sleep. You just need rest."

 

This is counterintuitive but shifting your focus to looking at how you might help others takes some of the energy away from the all-consuming drama of this wd thing that sucks you down. Depending on how I was doing, this varied from showing kindness and expressing interest in grocery clerks, sending people cards, visiting sick people, volunteering, or spending time with a suffering friend even if I felt like s***. It's easy to get in this mindset that no one in the world is suffering like you. Exposure to others out there who have cancer, have lost a child, are depressed, whatever, can be extremely humbling and grounding. Wd wants to make itself the center of your universe. You have to fight that. Not only does the center of the universe thing keep you mired in your misery, magnifying it, it drives others away.

 

To be clear, I often failed at all of the above. I'd violate the sleep hygiene rules, lie in bed and simmer about how awful and meaningless my life was. I'd binge on sweets and totally withdraw from others. The trick was once I'd fallen, to notice it, brush myself off and with some grace and compassion, resolve to try again. Over and over. None of us on here are perfect and we all are suffering (or have suffered) in our own ways. It's not useful to judge ourselves or others. We're doing the best we can. That's all you have to strive for.

 

MT

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Wow what amazing advice from mtfan.. every bit of which I concur with.. acceptance and patience is the key although these are the hardest things to achieve as I know from experience!!.. but if you can take the pressure off sleep and adopt an accepting "I couldn't care less about sleep" attitude even just a little bit, this will definitely help.. hang in there.. so many people here have had severe insomnia and eventually come through it - you will too! XOX

 

Stlrms,

 

First I would suggest you let go of the belief that you have to have some set amount of sleep to make it. 5 hours would be lovely but you can make do without it. For me it was like prying my fingers off of something I held too tightly-that I had to have 9 hours sleep (which then became 8, 6, 2-4) until I realized I managed to go to work, exercise and even socialize with zero sleep. That way any sleep I got was bonus. This removes a layer of panic about it.

 

Are you following sleep hygiene rules? http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Info-sleep%20hygiene.pdf  Especially I'd recommend cutting caffeine out, avoiding sources of blue light at night (there are programs that filter it out on computers and phones and if you must watch TV there are blue light filtering glasses), abstaining from alcohol, reducing or eliminating sweets (they drive up cortisol which we already have too much of and interferes with sleep), avoid being in bed or lying down during the day, getting some exercise early in the day, and focusing on other things.

 

It can seem like you have to live like a monk for wd. That can be frustrating but it's also liberating. What many of us have found is that wd has driven us to be healthier and take better care of our bodies than ever. This can have huge health ramifications in vastly improve our lives down the road even if you don't feel it now.

 

It's hard to emphasize how important it is to reduce your focus on sleep. I know. That's like being underwater and not thinking about your next breath. The truth is, because of changes in our brains and chemistry, we can survive with far less sleep than normal people. It feels lousy but it's quite possible.

 

A common question is how do you fill the time? Distraction is extremely helpful. One of the things I noticed was the more I had on my to do list, the faster the day went. So whether it's work tasks, laundry, running errands, coloring, watching some favorite programs, or whatever, having some structure to your day helps. Evening structure is especially important-not so much what you choose as that you have it. I used to watch TV until 9 or 10 wearing my blue light filtering glasses, then web around on enjoyable websites (not BB, since that is stimulating and reminds you of your problems) like imgur.com or comedy sites (I have f.lux to filter blue light on my computer) and or read. Then at 11:30 or 12 I'd take a hot bath so 1-2 hours later my body would cool and be more receptive to sleep. I'd read some more then swing back and forth between practicing some form of meditation (see youtube or mindfulnesssolution.com or guided body scan) then read some more. Young adult fiction is easy to read when you can't concentrate well. If I felt I was a bit drowsy I'd lie in bed practicing deep breathing and travel in my imagination to give my mind something to do other than wonder, "Am I going to sleep tonight? I just have to get some sleep. Dammit. I'm not drowsy..." I'd review the plot in books I read, TV shows, or try to remember every detail of my walk. Sometimes I'd go to my happy place (up in a tree on a soft mattress with a gentle breeze) and bring to mind as much sensory detail as possible. Either I'd drop off for a bit or at least I'd pass the sleepless time a bit more pleasantly. I used to call those nights sleep-free but rest focused.

 

If you put in that time resting, deep breathing, using relaxation strategies, your body will experience it as rest and you'll be OK. It's not as good as sleep but it will keep you going. The important thing is to not chase sleep too desperately like a butterfly or it flies away. You have to come at it sideways. Shift your goal to relaxing instead of sleeping and repeatedly remind yourself that you'll be OK. Over and over I'd tell myself, "You can survive without sleep. You just need rest."

 

This is counterintuitive but shifting your focus to looking at how you might help others takes some of the energy away from the all-consuming drama of this wd thing that sucks you down. Depending on how I was doing, this varied from showing kindness and expressing interest in grocery clerks, sending people cards, visiting sick people, volunteering, or spending time with a suffering friend even if I felt like s***. It's easy to get in this mindset that no one in the world is suffering like you. Exposure to others out there who have cancer, have lost a child, are depressed, whatever, can be extremely humbling and grounding. Wd wants to make itself the center of your universe. You have to fight that. Not only does the center of the universe thing keep you mired in your misery, magnifying it, it drives others away.

 

To be clear, I often failed at all of the above. I'd violate the sleep hygiene rules, lie in bed and simmer about how awful and meaningless my life was. I'd binge on sweets and totally withdraw from others. The trick was once I'd fallen, to notice it, brush myself off and with some grace and compassion, resolve to try again. Over and over. None of us on here are perfect and we all are suffering (or have suffered) in our own ways. It's not useful to judge ourselves or others. We're doing the best we can. That's all you have to strive for.

 

MT

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Cognitive behavioral therapy is something I cannot stress enough to all anxiety/depression/insomnia sufferers. I learned about it when I went to rehab, but I actually never became committed to it since the last three months. I discovered the videos of Dr. Korol, here is one her links:

I am doing other self-help workbooks like the Insomnia workbook and Mind over Mood which are helping me alot. I am also doing an online course through the Centre for Clinical Interventions (all for free). It is hard work, but so much worth it. Got to put in the time and effort and keep a journal. I have learned to relax, meditate, yoga ,and pray. They all hep me, and you just have to try what works for you. Everything that Mtfan went through I have experienced and done/doing like sleep hygiene. Setting up the 'mood' at home at night also helps me. I start around 7 pm by dimming the lights, eating a clean diet (no stimulants), cutting off electronics (even cell, just for emergencies), listening to guided meditations, brainwave therapy, setting my diffuser on, taking magnesium, a bath, read, coloring books (nothing too stimulating like being on BB for example). Like I said CBT is amazing and I am committed to it. Anxiety is something that we live with, but learning how to cope with it more efficiently is the key to learn how to cope well with depression and insomnia. It seems that these 'threesome' loves to hang together if we let them. You are stronger than you think you are!

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good for you solyluna!! I know the Centre for Clinical Interventions - and yes there is fantastic free info and exercises there for people to work through  :thumbsup:

 

Cognitive behavioral therapy is something I cannot stress enough to all anxiety/depression/insomnia sufferers. I learned about it when I went to rehab, but I actually never became committed to it since the last three months. I discovered the videos of Dr. Korol, here is one her links:

 

I am doing other self-help workbooks like the Insomnia workbook and Mind over Mood which are helping me alot. I am also doing an online course through the Centre for Clinical Interventions (all for free). It is hard work, but so much worth it. Got to put in the time and effort and keep a journal. I have learned to relax, meditate, yoga ,and pray. They all hep me, and you just have to try what works for you. Everything that Mtfan went through I have experienced and done/doing like sleep hygiene. Setting up the 'mood' at home at night also helps me. I start around 7 pm by dimming the lights, eating a clean diet (no stimulants), cutting off electronics (even cell, just for emergencies), listening to guided meditations, brainwave therapy, setting my diffuser on, taking magnesium, a bath, read, coloring books (nothing too stimulating like being on BB for example). Like I said CBT is amazing and I am committed to it. Anxiety is something that we live with, but learning how to cope with it more efficiently is the key to learn how to cope well with depression and insomnia. It seems that these 'threesome' loves to hang together if we let them. You are stronger than you think you are!

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Stlsrms:

I am sorry you are going through so much suffering. Even though I wasn't on benzos as long as you have, it was enough to mess me up. I can definitely feel your anxiety and worry about your situation, but you know this will only make it worst. Mtfan is right you got stop your beliefs about yourself and sleep. I know it is hard to think this way when you are in the midsts of it. This is why I recommend CBT. You got to give it a try, but you need to be patient and work at it. I also listen to the 'Anxiety Guy', here is a link:

He is actually pretty good and an ex sufferer and he is a certified coach now. It seems to me that you may benefit from a personal coach or some counseling.

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Soly , I appreciate the straight forward approach you gave me and I also cannot put more em phisis on CBT. I am a Psychology Grad and proved it worked and I know it does as well. It takes practice as everything else but once you have it you have it. you can never stop learning and yes everyone approach to relaxation and dealing with this is diff ererent.Luckily my home is secluded the bedroom and everyone is set up with things that make me happy and the preparation for sleep is very important.It is amazing what we are capable of if we put our mind to it. To think I never asked for this drug or the others I was just given them is frustrating especially because of the now mis trust I have for many a Dr. They cannot know everything but many know the addiction of the prescriptions they write but I just wish they would do more good than harm. We have to be active in our struggle, we cannot just go along and trust if we know better. I always now read the side effects and weigh the costs and the reward. All in all the patient or the victim depending on your point of view has to have an active role in their outcome There is so much to be grateful for when you are in charge of your health and happiness and we all must be. CBT give you control over many things and your mind is capable of unbelievable things, it just takes time and effort. Thanks for the tips. STL 8)
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