If you are suffering from Insomnia, please read

I apologize up front if I come across as being harsh or cruel.  That’s not my intent.  My only purpose for this post is to HELP those struggling with drug withdrawal related insomnia.  It is my "tough love" talk.  I wish someone would have said the things I am going to say below after I jumped cold turkey in August 2016.  This is not medical advice, but my opinion based on my experience and the experience of others.

 

Many are hit with severe insomnia after tapering, jumping, going cold turkey, etc.  Regardless of why or how insomnia is destroying your life now, know that it WILL get better--over time.  Time and prayer are the only healers.  However, DRUGS are NEVER the solution.  ALL Drugs only PROLONG your recovery.  If Drugs caused you to stop sleeping in the first place, why would you want to find a NON-BENZO version to help you sleep?  It is like POURING GASOLINE onto a burning fire expecting the gasoline to put out the fire!

 

After being on this site for 18 months, I repeatedly see the same questions asked over and over.  I used to ask them too.  What can I take to get some sleep with?  Answer:  NOTHING.  Seriously?  Yes, Seriously NOTHING!  Remeron, Seroquel, Amitriptyline, Trazodone, Gabapentin, Zyprexa, Clonidine, Doxepin, Lyrica, etc. all have their own set of side effects and possible withdrawal.  Nothing is “SAFE.”  Doctors don’t even know how almost all of these drugs work.  They say things like, “it is believed to work by….” 

 

I haven’t had the worst insomnia of all buddies on this site, but I had it pretty bad and I am currently going through a late WAVE, SETBACK, etc. where I have had 3 zero nights in the past 2 weeks!  I wasn’t going to report this as I didn’t want to “scare” people new to this forum, but recovery is non-linear even at 18 months off.  With that said, I will also report that I had pretty good 7-8 hour sleeps the past 4 nights.

 

The short answer is you have to endure the horrific insomnia until it starts to resolve on its own.  Don’t take anything.  No OTC sleep medications, No herbs, no natural supplements, nothing.  That is if you want the quickest path to recovery?  If you want to prolong your recovery and healing, then experiment around with other Rx drugs, OTC sleep aides and herbal concoctions. Your brain WILL learn to sleep again.  You WILL get better.  But get the idea out of your head that 1mg of Ativan or Xanax or Klonopin is not a large dose or 5mg of Ambien is SAFE.  Drugs are NOT safe and never will be.  It is all big pharmaceutical lies.

 

Why can’t you sleep?

 

Benzos work by attaching themselves to Gabba (Gamma Amino Butyric Acid) receptors in your brain. Gabba is a neurotransmitter.  Neurotransmitters are chemicals that enable your brain cells to transmit impulses to one another.  Gabba is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter that has the function to slow or calm things down.  When Benzos attach to Gabba, the Benzos, not the Gabba, do the slowing and calming.  Over time, your body adapts to the Benzo and does very little or no Gabba “activity” on its own.  When tolerance is reached, the Benzos no longer work and your brain doesn’t know how to keep you calm or relaxed without them, the only way they work is by taking a higher dose.  Your “Sleep” switch gets broken or literally unplugged by the Benzos.  It takes a long time, in most cases, for the brain to normalize regular Gabba activity.  In the meantime, you are constantly wired and tired at the same time.  That is why you can’t sleep well or not at all.  It all depends on how much your Gabba is shutdown.  Recovery depends on how fast your brain can repair the “damage” and how quickly your Gabba receptors start sending impulses to other cells to slow or calm things down some.

 

So, adding in other OTC, Rx or herbal remedies that may or may not act on Gabba, is not going to help.  Dropping more bombs on an already bombed out building under the hope that they will somehow magically rebuild the building is futile and foolish!

 

Yes, not sleeping is the worst form or physical and mental torture I can think of.  I endured it, many others have too.  You will get past this.  The fastest road to recovery is to eat healthy and clean, exercise if possible, drink lots of water, stay positive, be thankful, accept your situation as short-term or temporary, live life the best you can, and show gratitude when you do get some sleep.  Lack of sleep will not kill you, your brain and body will get the sleep you need before that happens.  You have a better chance of being hit by the Chinese Space Station that will fall out of orbit soon, then to be killed by lack of sleep.

 

The recovery process is not linear.  What the heck does that mean?  It means it is not the same as if you break your leg and the doctor says in about 6-8 weeks it will be healed.  It is up and down as your brain attempts to get the Gabba to function again on its own.  You might sleep well for a few days followed by a lot of poor or zero sleep.  You may have one day of some sleep followed by one day of little or no sleep and stay in that pattern for months.  You might go for 10 months, like I did, with pretty good sleep, only to be hit by some poor and no sleep nights for weeks.  It will all even out over time.  You could feel great one day after some good sleep followed by thoughts of reinstating after the next zero night.

 

And please do not compare your recovery to another person’s recovery.  Some recover quicker than others.  Some take a lot longer.  Do not expect to be better by a certain date, or after so many months of being drug free.  Your recovery is your recovery.  When healing happens, you will know.

 

Lack of sleep intensifies any other symptoms you have and in desperation, many will consider taking something to help get some sleep.  Don’t do it.  Resist and fight against it.  You will survive. You are a lot stronger than you think right now. 

 

So, stop looking for the “magic bullet” or “hidden herb” that will “fix” your sleep.  They DO NOT EXIST.  If they did, someone would have found one by now.  The only way OUT is THROUGH the recovery process.  The only way OUT is TIME!  Your Brain WILL fix itself given enough time.  You WILL sleep again on your own.  Not caring if you sleep or not will go a long way toward your recovery.  Not putting a time table on when you should start sleeping better by will also go a long way toward your recovery. Not taking any other Rx drug, OTC or herbal sleep remedy will go a long toward your recovery and accepting your situation will go a long way toward your recovery.  Your recovery is what it is and will end when it ends.  How you deal with it along the way and until you heal is up to you!

 

Thank you for this post! I'm at two months out and haven't slept much the past few days and this was exactly what I needed to hear.

Thank you. I need to not expect sleep and be grateful after it comes.

<3

 

Great post and sadly so true. I took remeron for sleep for about a year. I have been off it for about four months and am now in my second withdrawal. Not much fun and remeron withdrawal has it's unique agenda.

I agree it’s worth the wait,  even herbal medicines can give you a set back.. watch TV til 4 in the morning it’s better than being knocked out by other things.

I’ve had it in my head that it’s vital I sleep,  it’s this ultimate important thing,  which is true..but you need to wait for it to come naturally. 

Theway,

 

You're right on but these are hard words to hear. When you're in that desperate, frantic place you want to believe so badly that there is accessible relief, a magic bullet. I believed for the longest time that I couldn't survive without a certain amount of sleep. Then it became I can't do ___ without sleep and I'd either avoid those things or try solution after solution after (drug/herbal remedy, etc.).

 

I used to get pissed off at people who would say what you did. Thought they were rigid purists promoting their way or the highway. But like you, I learned after being on here for over 3 years, and my own wretched experience, that they were right.

 

I made all of the mistakes, tried all of the drugs and confused my wounded brain. It was only after I pried my hands off of each and every medication that sleep got any better and my delusion that I was incapable of sleep without drugs was revealed for what it was. Sleep isn't great now but it happens every night and it's doable. It's a huge amount of healing for where I was.

 

So readers, you may feel angry or hurt reading all of this. I get that. But allow yourself to consider that these painful words might potentially save you from more heartbreak down the road.

 

MT

Hi, great post Theway2, I fully agree the content and follow the written path now. I also tried something like Elavil first but learned to be without drugs in order to allow natural sleep return. Now miracles to deal with insomnia but time is the only healer to trust.

I want to thank you  ThEwAy2 .Everytime I was depressed I used to read your posts .My insomnia has slightly improved .Being a short term user,I could not comprehend why I was going through such hell .When read that you too suffered despite using benzo for a short term it gave me hope that I was not alone .I want to thank you again as your insight really helped me understand my plight.

Does that go for CBN cannabis oil used in tiny little increments?

 

I could not sleep after my final taper in 9/17 and it so exasperated my anxiety during withdrawal that my skin not only burned, it felt like I was

lying in acid.  My bladder failed and I was hospitalized and reinstated on Diazepam.  Now I am afraid that my insomnia, which is starting up again

as I taper, will become severe again and I may experience the same harsh reactions.

 

That is why I would prefer to take "something" instead of being traumatized, hospitalized and re-instated again.  Anything about CBN?

 

 

 

Sorry, hit the wrong buttons.

Does that go for CBN cannabis oil used in tiny little increments?

 

I could not sleep after my final taper in 9/17 and it so exasperated my anxiety during withdrawal that my skin not only burned, it felt like I was

lying in acid.  My bladder failed and I was hospitalized and reinstated on Diazepam.  Now I am afraid that my insomnia, which is starting up again

as I taper, will become severe again and I may experience the same harsh reactions.

 

That is why I would prefer to take "something" instead of being traumatized, hospitalized and re-instated again.  Anything about CBN?

 

Well, like everything on this forum, the original poster has their point of view.  It's what worked for them.  But if I was getting unfettered relief from any substance/medication (no side effects or withdrawals) I'd probably be using them, too, depending on what my health situation was.  Bladder failure is serious and sounds painful.  Personally, I would not begrudge anyone coping with some CBD oil, etc.

 

I am completely drug free at this point since none of the drugs/supplements to assist with sleep helped.  It is weird, actually to get sleep this way since I have been using something for decades.  I forgot how to sleep and so did my brain.  My life is abnormal in that I cater to my sleep issues.  I don't schedule anything in the mornings.  I am not sure if or when this accommodation to my insomnia will ever go away.  It is what it is right now.  But sleeping drug free is an accomplishment that I am not acknowledging.  I must really do that.  Who else will?  W

Does that go for CBN cannabis oil used in tiny little increments?

 

I could not sleep after my final taper in 9/17 and it so exasperated my anxiety during withdrawal that my skin not only burned, it felt like I was

lying in acid.  My bladder failed and I was hospitalized and reinstated on Diazepam.  Now I am afraid that my insomnia, which is starting up again

as I taper, will become severe again and I may experience the same harsh reactions.

 

That is why I would prefer to take "something" instead of being traumatized, hospitalized and re-instated again.  Anything about CBN?

 

That might be one supplement that could be used.  I heard it has many health benefits and super low amounts of THC so you won't get high off of it.  I considered it at one point, but personally felt the cost was too high.  I am not a doctor and I am not giving medical advice, however, I strongly caution people against any and all supplements, OTC and Rx drugs for sleep as it creates a subconscious dependency for what you are taking.  Your brain associates getting sleep with having to take something.  Down the road, if and when you stop, or it is no longer effective, you might end up with an increase in the amount of insomnia?

 

However, if you feel CBD oil could help, I would give it a shot. I say that based on a lot of online research that lists the myriad of other health benefits, so even if it didn't work for sleep, it could reduce some of your other symptoms or just improve your overall health?  I know that sounds like a contradiction to what I posted, but CBD oil may be the one and only exception?

 

Good luck and let us know if it works.

HI THEWAY2 AND MTFAN,

 

I have not posted in a while.....I have been suffering really bad with insomnia...just last night I was up most of the night..I am not writing much right now, but will return....Just got back from a run and I am cold and sweating..  I am so desperate for sleep....I have been taking supplements  L-Tryptophan, melatonin, magnesium..and I also got sucked in to Point of Return....I bought their supplements....when you are desperate....this is what happens.....they are nothing more than protein whey, fish oil, tart cherry tablets and some kind of milk lactate supplements....

 

So glad to see your are back ThEwAy2!!!!

 

MTFan,  Your words of encouragement are a blessing too....Are you on bio-identical hormones or synthetic hormones?  I was on bio-identical progesterone....but stopped because I thought it would interfere with my withdrawal....am thinking of going back....wondering if this will help me sleep? 

Hi Runnergirl,

 

Sorry the insomnia beast is hitting you hard again.  I too bought Point of Return supplements.  They didn't do much for me at all.  I was desperate too.  They are very nice people, but place too much hope in their supplements.  They are very good at letting you know if something might help or hurt your recovery as they do have a doctor or two on staff that they consult with.  However, since every person is different, I don't know how they can say this supplement will help and this one will hurt, etc with any sort of accuracy?  Some things in the Rx world were paradoxical for me. They kept me awake rather than put me to sleep.

 

I am amazed that you are still running... way to fight against this WD and try to live as normally as possible!  I try to walk everyday, but I am only walking.  This recovery has a long tail to it.  I had a 3 week wave that I was hit by and it wasn't fun.  I had 3 zero nights and lots of very poor sleep during the 3 weeks.  I haven't had a wave that lasted more than 3 or 4 days in the past 10 months so it sorta freaked me out. I have had good sleep the past 5 nights so I am thinking it is over? 

 

Hold onto the times when you did sleep.  They will return.  If you had them before, you will have them again. It's such a long road, but you WILL recover and start to sleep and feel better.  Hang in there.

 

I have been thinking about getting a weighted blanket to help with nightime issues. I posted a query on alternative meds. to see if anyone has had experience with one . They are supposed to help with insomnia and calm down the C.N.S.

Hi ThEwAy.....

 

Sorry to hear you had a sleep setback......You are always here to help us...  I hope you have a good week of sleep.

You deserve it!!

 

I have a cabinet full of supplements...it looks like the aisle in "Whole Foods"..

 

How do you feel about taking vitamins?  Do you take them?    I have always taken Vitamins and still do. I take a multi vitamin and Omega 3 Fish Oil and thinking about taking Magnesium.

 

 

 

 

 

Runnergirl,

 

Too funny, my kitchen cabinet looks like a Pharmacy too but with vitamins and supplements.  I don't take them to sleep, but just in general.  I have everything from CoQ10 to L Carnosine.  I usually make a shake in the morning with a banana and almond milk then a bunch of powders.  Reds, greens, purples, and organes.  It seems to help, especially on days I don't sleep the best.  I say experiment around and if they don't mess with your sleep, then go ahead.  Again, I don't take anything after 9:00 am just in case it could mess with sleep?    My thought is if we are healthier, we should recover quicker and sleep better. 

I needed to hear this.... I recently found I can drink again and have been trading one nights heavy sleep (alcohol induced) for a week of bad anxiety re-emerging. I had my third night like that and today i realised I needed to pull myself together again. The trade off is just not worth it and an angry rant is exactly what i needed. Appreciate it bud. Your 100% right, theres no easy was through this.

 

Hold the fort,

 

Pinky

HI THEWAY2 AND MTFAN,

 

I have not posted in a while.....I have been suffering really bad with insomnia...just last night I was up most of the night..I am not writing much right now, but will return....Just got back from a run and I am cold and sweating..  I am so desperate for sleep....I have been taking supplements  L-Tryptophan, melatonin, magnesium..and I also got sucked in to Point of Return....I bought their supplements....when you are desperate....this is what happens.....they are nothing more than protein whey, fish oil, tart cherry tablets and some kind of milk lactate supplements....

 

So glad to see your are back ThEwAy2!!!!

 

MTFan,  Your words of encouragement are a blessing too....Are you on bio-identical hormones or synthetic hormones?  I was on bio-identical progesterone....but stopped because I thought it would interfere with my withdrawal....am thinking of going back....wondering if this will help me sleep?

 

I think my patch is bioidentical. I'm not sure how much estrogen helps with sleep but it makes some other things better. I've decreased the dose some. Keep up the running. Exercise helped keep me sane through the worst of this. It helped (and still helps) me feel less like a victim and more like a fighter in this epic battle for recovery.

Brave rabbit: I bought a weighted blanket. I'd say don't bother. They are expensive and unless you are a very still sleeper (which one of us here can say that?) it's like a war trying to pull it up and over and across. So damn heavy and slips to the bottom of the duvet. Maybe get a cheap and light one if you are curious. I assumed more $$ and heavier way to go and that was a big mistake.

 

Hi  Everyone.....Just  a little note to say that I slept a good 4 hours last night....without any supplements....Went to bed about 9:45 p.m. and woke up around 2:00 a.m. ...I have been warming up a glass of milk when I cannot go back....and try to keep calm as the anxiety steps in.....I must have went back out sometime after 3:00 a.m. and next thing I knew...it was 7:00 a.m.....actually, I felt pretty good....I am happy with any kind of sleep right now....Have been off Klonopin for 8 months now (after 7 years) and off Amitriptyline for 8 weeks now ( after 7 years). 

 

With some sleep right now....does this mean that the brain is trying to heal and look for connections up there? 

I took low dose seroquel post jump, for couple months, then took a break, took it again and stopped for good.

it made me sleep. when I stopped (rapid taper), I kept sleeping well, and had very minor w/d symptoms.

still sleeping good. yes this is a nasty drug, but it did work, and I did not had bad w/d from it, and I still do sleep.

 

Hi  Everyone.....Just  a little note to say that I slept a good 4 hours last night....without any supplements....Went to bed about 9:45 p.m. and woke up around 2:00 a.m. ...I have been warming up a glass of milk when I cannot go back....and try to keep calm as the anxiety steps in.....I must have went back out sometime after 3:00 a.m. and next thing I knew...it was 7:00 a.m.....actually, I felt pretty good....I am happy with any kind of sleep right now....Have been off Klonopin for 8 months now (after 7 years) and off Amitriptyline for 8 weeks now ( after 7 years). 

 

With some sleep right now....does this mean that the brain is trying to heal and look for connections up there?

 

Yes, the more sleep you get, the more you will heal. It is not a perfect correlation, but a good one.  Glad you got some decent sleep.  It will continue.  It will be up and down but hold onto the good nights when they come.  More are on the way and your brain is slowly repairing the damage that was done.  You'll get there. 

I disagree that taking something OCCASIONALLY is always bad.  As a person whose symptoms went absolutely crazy from no sleep, sleeping even once a week, due to light marijuana or benadryl can have a profound impact on overall symptoms.  Plus, often not being able to sleep often leads to more sleepless nights.  If I had nothing to use and my sleep pattern got thrown off, the majority of my mental symptoms would come back.  I got to the point that if I didn't sleep for a few nights in a row, I would use a little marijuana to help me drift off  (be careful because this can set people back if it is not a good strain or too strong).  Using it for even one night would help my body "reset" and get back into a normal sleeping rhythm again.  While sleep did eventually return on it's own, I couldn't even imagine how worse off I would have been if I hadn't done that once in a while.  In fact, it was after using it to sleep the first time that I finally got my heart rate back down into a more "normal" range (my heart rate was running between 130-140 for weeks in the beginning).

 

Sleep is really needed for health, and considering how much more I suffered when I couldn't sleep at all, I think telling people not to use something, even occasionally, is not the best advice for everyone.  Some people really do heal better when they get sleep.

I disagree that taking something OCCASIONALLY is always bad.  As a person whose symptoms went absolutely crazy from no sleep, sleeping even once a week, due to light marijuana or benadryl can have a profound impact on overall symptoms.  Plus, often not being able to sleep often leads to more sleepless nights.  If I had nothing to use and my sleep pattern got thrown off, the majority of my mental symptoms would come back.  I got to the point that if I didn't sleep for a few nights in a row, I would use a little marijuana to help me drift off  (be careful because this can set people back if it is not a good strain or too strong).  Using it for even one night would help my body "reset" and get back into a normal sleeping rhythm again.  While sleep did eventually return on it's own, I couldn't even imagine how worse off I would have been if I hadn't done that once in a while.  In fact, it was after using it to sleep the first time that I finally got my heart rate back down into a more "normal" range (my heart rate was running between 130-140 for weeks in the beginning).Sleep is really needed for health, and considering how much more I suffered when I couldn't sleep at all, I think telling people not to use something, even occasionally, is not the best advice for everyone.  Some people really do heal better when they get sleep.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.  But notice you didn't say I occasionally took an Rx drug. Everyone has a different body chemistry that is affected differently by Rx, OTC, herbal remedies and Pot.  For 99% of the people going through WD it is better to not take an Rx drug to induce sleep.  Pot and Benadryl would be preferred over any Rx drugs, but Benadryl has about 14% alcohol in it and alcohol acts on Gabba the same way Benzos do.  I tried both and neither worked for me.  In fact, pot was paradoxical for me and kept me awake even though I was assured it was the type for calm and sleep.  But as you stated that doesn't mean they don't work for everyone.  They worked for you.  Just as some users said low dose Seroquel worked for them.  The problem is that Rx drugs are the "but for" cause of our withdrawal.  But for taking Benzes, no one on this board would be going through withdrawal.  Again, for 99% of the people, not introducing another Rx drug is good advice during WD.  I have talked to many hard core insomniacs and that is the conclusion they came to as well.

 

What advice would you give to someone where nothing works to induce sleep?  I was one of those people.  Nothing short of an Rx drug would work.  I tried everything under the sun. So....

 

By all means, If you are suffering horribly and you believe Pot or some OTC remedy can help, then take it.  But everything has a risk and a possible price to pay.  You just have to weigh the advantages/disadvantages.  Plus, there is a psychological component to taking something where your brain and subconscious associate sleeping with needing to take something to sleep.

 

I still stand by the best method, if you can handle it, is to take nothing and see how strong you really can be.  I went at least 10 different times of 3-4 days in a row of zero sleep.  I know MTfan went an entire month with only 2 short sleep periods.  It is survivable. But if you can't handle it, do what is best for you. And of course people heal when they sleep, no one is denying that.  In fact, that is when most will experience the greatest amount of healing.  I have repeatedly said that in other posts.  Just look at the post above this one to Runnergirl.  It is not a contest to see who can go the longest without sleep, but your body will get the sleep it needs to survive without occasionally taking something.

 

Besides, in desperation people will do what they think they need to do.  That is why some end up reinstating.  I don't think my advice carries that much weight anyway.  I am flattered that some might think so, but again, it is only advice and people will occasionally or frequently take whatever they feel is necessary to get some sleep.