Jump to content

Rapid detox / taper via Gabapentin? (link to studies)


[om...]

Recommended Posts

(Originally posted in the cold turkey forum, but realized it was in the wrong place)

 

I am wondering if anyone has heard of, or has had any experience with rapid detox / taper with the addition of Gabapentin? I have been reading case reports and studies where time and time again patients are brought down for a very high dose of long term benzo’s very rapidly (under a week) with the addition of Gabapentin. Almost seems too good to be true! But check out this link, there’s a few examples:

 

https://www.ommegaonline.org/article-details/Gabapentin-(Neurontin)--An-Adjunct-for-Benzodiazepine-Withdrawal/606

 

Two quotes from the article:

 

“Importantly, patients also denied cravings for benzodiazepines.”

 

“However, value in this study lies in the observation of a common effect of ameliorating withdrawal signs and symptoms once gabapentin was initiated. Gabapentin dosing was decided by the severity of pain and anxiety complaints. Even though the patients may have been taking other medications, it was only with gabapentin where the clinicians observed improvement of symptoms classically associated with benzodiazepine withdrawal.”

 

I am very tempted to try that! Sounds a lot better than months / years of hell :)

 

I assume there are risks associated with this? Are these studies leaving out the long term follow ups with the patients to make sure they didn’t suffer any damage?

 

So far, Gabapentin is the only thing I’ve found that calms my withdrawals down!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people do find relief with gabapentin, but others have been set off.  That being said, many of those who found gabapentin helpful for benzo withdrawal got slammed twice as hard when they eventually tried to taper off the gabapentin - many times the benzo withdrawal symptoms would come back, in addition to having to deal with gabapentin withdrawal (which can have withdrawal almost as bad as benzo withdrawal).  However, note that the study shows a decreased level of anxiety, and then patients were released.  Nothing is written about how the patients fared after they left the hospital.  Klonopin doesn't even get out of your system for roughly 2 weeks, which means we have absolutely no way of knowing what type of withdrawal these people experienced once they left and actually hit the "acute" stage.  Rehab centers often do the same thing, detoxing patients and releasing them in a week, claiming they are "cured".  A good percentage don't even get hit with withdrawal until after they have left the detox facility, and many of them end up reinstating.  However, the detox considers them a "success" because they weren't taking a benzo when they left.  Some of the patients were only on benzo a few months to begin with, and may not have had long term issues.

 

Personally, I would only try gabapentin if you are having extreme nerve pain issues and nothing else helps.  Remember that gabapentin has no FDA approval or studies for anxiety.  In our facebook benzo groups, some people did find it helpful, but others found it made things even worse.  If it works for you, it could be worth it, but I wouldn't stay on it any longer than required.

 

Here is an article talking about how neurontin and lyrica are basically a death sentence for new brain synapses.  https://www.wellnessresources.com/news/neurontin-and-lyrica-are-a-death-sentence-for-new-brain-synapses

 

I personally took neurontin years ago for nerve pain.  It helped with the pain, but my mood was so bad I wanted to punch anyone who pissed me off even slightly.  My doctor immediately pulled me off and told me that severe personality changes weren't uncommon with neurontin.  (I also gained over 30 pounds in about 6 weeks on it.  Weight gain is extremely common).  I wasn't on it long enough to experience any withdrawal ( or else the klonopin I took at that time made it unnoticeable)

 

A friend of mine was on neurontin for severe nerve pain.  She had to taper off because it was messing with her cognition so badly that she was having trouble doing even basic tasks around the house.  They had to taper her very slowly though, and she was in immense pain and severe withdrawal every time they cut her dose.  I think she ended up tapering just as long as she was on the medication.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you go to the Other Medications Board and type "gabapentin" into the search box, you'll find many posts and threads about the subject:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=60.0

 

In general fast tapers are not recommended if one has used benzos for any length of time.  I did one, and it took me over two years to heal from my extremely severe symptoms.  And, there is no magic drug or supplement that is guaranteed to prevent or cure those symptoms, so slow tapering is almost always best.  Here's a link to the Cold Turkey, Detox & Rapid Taper Board:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=133.0

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people do find relief with gabapentin, but others have been set off.  That being said, many of those who found gabapentin helpful for benzo withdrawal got slammed twice as hard when they eventually tried to taper off the gabapentin - many times the benzo withdrawal symptoms would come back, in addition to having to deal with gabapentin withdrawal (which can have withdrawal almost as bad as benzo withdrawal).  However, note that the study shows a decreased level of anxiety, and then patients were released.  Nothing is written about how the patients fared after they left the hospital.  Klonopin doesn't even get out of your system for roughly 2 weeks, which means we have absolutely no way of knowing what type of withdrawal these people experienced once they left and actually hit the "acute" stage.  Rehab centers often do the same thing, detoxing patients and releasing them in a week, claiming they are "cured".  A good percentage don't even get hit with withdrawal until after they have left the detox facility, and many of them end up reinstating.  However, the detox considers them a "success" because they weren't taking a benzo when they left.  Some of the patients were only on benzo a few months to begin with, and may not have had long term issues.

 

Personally, I would only try gabapentin if you are having extreme nerve pain issues and nothing else helps.  Remember that gabapentin has no FDA approval or studies for anxiety.  In our facebook benzo groups, some people did find it helpful, but others found it made things even worse.  If it works for you, it could be worth it, but I wouldn't stay on it any longer than required.

 

Here is an article talking about how neurontin and lyrica are basically a death sentence for new brain synapses.  https://www.wellnessresources.com/news/neurontin-and-lyrica-are-a-death-sentence-for-new-brain-synapses

 

I personally took neurontin years ago for nerve pain.  It helped with the pain, but my mood was so bad I wanted to punch anyone who pissed me off even slightly.  My doctor immediately pulled me off and told me that severe personality changes weren't uncommon with neurontin.  (I also gained over 30 pounds in about 6 weeks on it.  Weight gain is extremely common).  I wasn't on it long enough to experience any withdrawal ( or else the klonopin I took at that time made it unnoticeable)

 

A friend of mine was on neurontin for severe nerve pain.  She had to taper off because it was messing with her cognition so badly that she was having trouble doing even basic tasks around the house.  They had to taper her very slowly though, and she was in immense pain and severe withdrawal every time they cut her dose.  I think she ended up tapering just as long as she was on the medication.

 

Dolphinator78, thank you so much for the detailed reply! :) This is all very very helpful information! I have been researching Gabapentin more and it seems like its definitely got addiction potential, despite many "official" sources claiming its non-habit forming. It also seems like a fairly serious drug! One that I would ideally not like to be taking. I have already been taking it for close to a week, which I am already thinking might be too long. I think I will try tonight without it! That being said, i haven't noticed any side effects from it yet. Which is surprising to me because I'm usually pretty sensitive to drugs. I think like you say, this is probably a drug best reserved for severe nerve pain or in extreme circumstances, and not for extended periods of time. 

 

You raise very good points about the fact that these patients are pronounced "cured" before any sorta of long term follow up has occurred, or even a check-in a month or two later. My worst withdrawal symptoms didn't start until 3 weeks after my CT (I didn't know I was addicted). But the severe fatigue began almost immediately.

 

That article about new synapse formation is frightening! :( I don't wanna be taking anything that can do that!! I just want to be off ALL drugs, honestly! I've been so against them my whole life, I can't believe I am now dependent on one, and trying another to mitigate the symptoms the first one is causing! :sick:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that drugs that modify the production or the effect of neurotransmitters should be avoided. There just too many unknown consequences.

 

I have to agree, Peter! :) Even the Drs or the makers of these drugs can’t even tell us how they work or what exactly is going on in our brains. If they had any clue, every drug wouldn’t be plagued so many varying side effects! I want off ALL drugs, especially anything that effects the mind and/or has to be taken regularly!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that drugs that modify the production or the effect of neurotransmitters should be avoided. There just too many unknown consequences.

 

I have to agree, Peter! :) Even the Drs or the makers of these drugs can’t even tell us how they work or what exactly is going on in our brains. If they had any clue, every drug wouldn’t be plagued so many varying side effects! I want off ALL drugs, especially anything that effects the mind and/or has to be taken regularly!

Have you started tapering? You may want to consider crossing over to Valium (0.5 mg Xanax is equivalent to about 5 mg of Valium) and then do a liquid micro taper. There are moderators on BB who can help you set up a slow and steady taper schedule with either Xanax or Valium. Many people find Valium easier to taper from since it has a long half-life. Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not started tapering yet, I have been trying to stabilize on the same 0.5 mg dose, but its not going well! :( It's been two weeks, and I'm getting WORSE, not better :-\ Food sensitivities manifesting, don't know what I can eat anymore. At this point I'm just scared and confused what to do. I definitely think a liquid taper is going to be how it has to go. Good to know I can get help with setting one of those up, I don't think i can make small enough cuts with the tablets.

 

And I would love to switch to valium if I can (I am going to ask my Dr again). But start tapering when? How much worse will I feel before I feel better? Am I doing something wrong? I feel like I've messed myself up bad! And it scares me that i keep feeling progressively worse.

 

Was the reinstatement to 0.5 mg after CT'ing 3 weeks prior was in some senses "too big of a cut," now my body needs more and I'm paying the price? Or, I also wonder if I am just feeling the longer term damage manifesting from the CT? :( Or both? Either way, I feel hopeless and feel like I will never feel normal again! Not to mention, the road ahead scares me! :'(

 

P.S. I decided to stop taking Gabapentin after 5 pills in total. The withdrawl stories are horrific, its a very scary drug unto itself. I don't need any more problems!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not started tapering yet, I have been trying to stabilize on the same 0.5 mg dose, but its not going well! :( It's been two weeks, and I'm getting WORSE, not better :-\ Food sensitivities manifesting, don't know what I can eat anymore. At this point I'm just scared and confused what to do. I definitely think a liquid taper is going to be how it has to go. Good to know I can get help with setting one of those up, I don't think i can make small enough cuts with the tablets.

 

And I would love to switch to valium if I can (I am going to ask my Dr again). But start tapering when? How much worse will I feel before I feel better? Am I doing something wrong? I feel like I've messed myself up bad! And it scares me that i keep feeling progressively worse.

 

Was the reinstatement to 0.5 mg after CT'ing 3 weeks prior was in some senses "too big of a cut," now my body needs more and I'm paying the price? Or, I also wonder if I am just feeling the longer term damage manifesting from the CT? :( Or both? Either way, I feel hopeless and feel like I will never feel normal again! Not to mention, the road ahead scares me! :'(

 

P.S. I decided to stop taking Gabapentin after 5 pills in total. The withdrawl stories are horrific, its a very scary drug unto itself. I don't need any more problems!

Are you taking the Xanax in a single 0.5 mg dose? If so you could try splitting it into two 0.25 mg doses. That would even it out which could help reduce intra day withdrawal. I would not try switching to Valium (tablet of liquid) or start tapering until you stabilize a bit. You are on a relatively low dose of Xanax roughly equivalent to the 5  mg dose of Valium I was on before I started tapering. I don't think you have done any long term damage but you may have developed "tolerance withdrawal" where you feel withdrawal symptoms even though you have not reduced your dose. That can make you feel pretty awful but it really is not dangerous. What are your food sensitivities? A big part of the process is try to think positively and to not react to the physical sensations of withdrawal. You need to accept the sensations and not get spooked thinking that the sensations will harm you. It is good to avoid increasing your dose now in an attempt to feel more comfortable because it often doesn't help much and you wind up further from your goal to eliminate benzos. Exercise, meditation, staying well hydrated with water plus avoiding caffeine and sugar help me deal with withdrawal symptoms. Drinking alcohol is not recommended because even though it can reduce symptoms in the short term it makes withdrawal symptoms worse the next day (or many days).  I also find it very important to stay engaged in normal activities as much as possible. The worst thing for me is to just sit around wondering when the withdrawal symptoms will stop. Having an MD who understands slow tapering is helpful. A CBT psychologist helped me deal with not overreacting to withdrawal symptoms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Peter. Thanks for your reply here. I have not tried splitting the 0.5 mg pill into two doses. It seems more of my symptoms come at night, sleep is currently a nightmare. I don’t think I can switch to Valium right this instant anyhow, as I don’t have access to any.

 

Thanks for reassuring me that I don’t have any long term damage! With the repeated CT’s in the past & how many problems they created, I just want to try to avoid or minimize any further deep dives into symptom hell. I couldn’t eat nearly anything for many years after my first CT. At the time, I had  no idea what was going on, and niether did any Dr (I saw probably 100 of them). I just know that can’t go back to that! :(

 

Food sensitivities so far definitely  include the big ones: caffeine, sugar, alcohol. Simple carbs like white rice don’t go over well in the evening & can leave me wired feeling (same as sugar). But I have also had severe reactions to lime juice, a sandwhich, and ? ??? I’m not even sure what I’m reacting to anymore, but I’m pretty sure the histamine / glutamate foods are the key here (big discovery).

 

Unfortunately my Dr is not sympathetic at all. She says I just need to go up in dose! Or just taper down by going to half a pill. Tried that and was in hell. She gave me Mirtazapine (Remeron) for sleep, I tried it once... but I’m afraid to use it. A lot of mixed reports, just like all the other mind drugs! Some people say it’s great, some people say it’s evil. But for the love of God, I NEED SOMETHING TO HELP WITH SLEEP! :( Especially getting to sleep, I feel like my nervous system is on fire whenever I lie down. Last night out of desparationI tried Trazodone which had worked good many years ago. That w the Xanax gave me a few hours sleep, but I woke up in a fog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Peter. Thanks for your reply here. I have not tried splitting the 0.5 mg pill into two doses. It seems more of my symptoms come at night, sleep is currently a nightmare. I don’t think I can switch to Valium right this instant anyhow, as I don’t have access to any.

 

Thanks for reassuring me that I don’t have any long term damage! With the repeated CT’s in the past & how many problems they created, I just want to try to avoid or minimize any further deep dives into symptom hell. I couldn’t eat nearly anything for many years after my first CT. At the time, I had  no idea what was going on, and niether did any Dr (I saw probably 100 of them). I just know that can’t go back to that! :(

 

Food sensitivities so far definitely  include the big ones: caffeine, sugar, alcohol. Simple carbs like white rice don’t go over well in the evening & can leave me wired feeling (same as sugar). But I have also had severe reactions to lime juice, a sandwhich, and ? ??? I’m not even sure what I’m reacting to anymore, but I’m pretty sure the histamine / glutamate foods are the key here (big discovery).

 

Unfortunately my Dr is not sympathetic at all. She says I just need to go up in dose! Or just taper down by going to half a pill. Tried that and was in hell. She gave me Mirtazapine (Remeron) for sleep, I tried it once... but I’m afraid to use it. A lot of mixed reports, just like all the other mind drugs! Some people say it’s great, some people say it’s evil. But for the love of God, I NEED SOMETHING TO HELP WITH SLEEP! :( Especially getting to sleep, I feel like my nervous system is on fire whenever I lie down. Last night out of desparationI tried Trazodone which had worked good many years ago. That w the Xanax gave me a few hours sleep, but I woke up in a fog.

Have you figured out foods that are less problematic and is your weight stable? A diet of high quality protein like eggs, fish, and lean antibiotic free meat plus fresh vegtables (other than nightshade family) and complex carbs with no caffiene, alcohol, and sugar might work well for you. Many people find that gluten is a problem. I personally don't have a problem with gluten but many people feel that being gluten free improves their physical and mental health. Each many small servings, drink lots of water, and chew thoroughly. Easy on fruit because it can contain a lot of sugar. Try not to worry about sensations that develop after you eat. Eating causes your digestive system to ramp up and sometimes people who are very sensitive to inner sensations get spooked by the stimulation. It won't harm you.

 

Using drugs to help you sleep is probably not a great idea. They all have side effects and it sounds like you are highly sensitive to side effects (me too). Some are habit forming. The key to getting sleep is to have regular sleep habits and to not care if you sleep or not. Your desparation to get sleep gets you keyed up so you can't sleep. Just lying in bed quietly has a restorative effect. A pyschologist may be able to help you improve your sleep patterns. Do you have insurance that would cover a psychologist?

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Peter. Thanks for your reply here. I have not tried splitting the 0.5 mg pill into two doses. It seems more of my symptoms come at night, sleep is currently a nightmare. I don’t think I can switch to Valium right this instant anyhow, as I don’t have access to any.

 

Thanks for reassuring me that I don’t have any long term damage! With the repeated CT’s in the past & how many problems they created, I just want to try to avoid or minimize any further deep dives into symptom hell. I couldn’t eat nearly anything for many years after my first CT. At the time, I had  no idea what was going on, and niether did any Dr (I saw probably 100 of them). I just know that can’t go back to that! :(

 

Food sensitivities so far definitely  include the big ones: caffeine, sugar, alcohol. Simple carbs like white rice don’t go over well in the evening & can leave me wired feeling (same as sugar). But I have also had severe reactions to lime juice, a sandwhich, and ? ??? I’m not even sure what I’m reacting to anymore, but I’m pretty sure the histamine / glutamate foods are the key here (big discovery).

 

Unfortunately my Dr is not sympathetic at all. She says I just need to go up in dose! Or just taper down by going to half a pill. Tried that and was in hell. She gave me Mirtazapine (Remeron) for sleep, I tried it once... but I’m afraid to use it. A lot of mixed reports, just like all the other mind drugs! Some people say it’s great, some people say it’s evil. But for the love of God, I NEED SOMETHING TO HELP WITH SLEEP! :( Especially getting to sleep, I feel like my nervous system is on fire whenever I lie down. Last night out of desparationI tried Trazodone which had worked good many years ago. That w the Xanax gave me a few hours sleep, but I woke up in a fog.

Have you figured out foods that are less problematic and is your weight stable? A diet of high quality protein like eggs, fish, and lean antibiotic free meat plus fresh vegtables (other than nightshade family) and complex carbs with no caffiene, alcohol, and sugar might work well for you. Many people find that gluten is a problem. I personally don't have a problem with gluten but many people feel that being gluten free improves their physical and mental health. Each many small servings, drink lots of water, and chew thoroughly. Easy on fruit because it can contain a lot of sugar. Try not to worry about sensations that develop after you eat. Eating causes your digestive system to ramp up and sometimes people who are very sensitive to inner sensations get spooked by the stimulation. It won't harm you.

 

Using drugs to help you sleep is probably not a great idea. They all have side effects and it sounds like you are highly sensitive to side effects (me too). Some are habit forming. The key to getting sleep is to have regular sleep habits and to not care if you sleep or not. Your desparation to get sleep gets you keyed up so you can't sleep. Just lying in bed quietly has a restorative effect. A pyschologist may be able to help you improve your sleep patterns. Do you have insurance that would cover a psychologist?

 

Thanks for the reply, Peter. Sounds like you and I are similar with the sensitivity to side effects. Recently I have reached for my old pal Trazadone to help w sleep. I took it many years ago, and it seemed to work well w no side effects. But now, it leaves me feeling like crap the next morning. Groggy, off, irritable, just very unwell. I don't think I'll take it again.

 

Gabapentin REALLY HELPS... but god, that drug scares me! I took it a total of 5 times before I realized i dont want to take it anymore. I just don't want to play Russian roulette with my mind anymore. I will admit that part of me still wonders if I could somehow get off the benzos quicker with a short term usage of gabapentin (like the studies in my post here). But I am just scared that would be like a mini CT, and I would still suffer long term effects. That being said, I'm suffering NOW worse than when I CT'ed! :( So I am really confused as to both what to do, and whether I made the right choice by reinstating. Part of me feels I should have just plowed through, since I was at the 3 week mark after my CT. But the electric shocks scared me, I felt like i was having borderline seizures! But I guess those would have come quicker after the CT if they were gonna happen. Now I feel like a fool for reinstating! Like I have just prolonged the agony...

 

I decided to skip coffee today, went with tea. I like my coffee with a lot of sugar, so I think its good to switch to tea at this point. Caffiene, sugar, alcohol all are not tolerated well. I a confused as to whether I can have gluten? I've eaten it, but I've also found that I've been feeling pretty awful lately. So i might cut that out for now, too.

 

Unfortunately I don't have health insurance, and I am not sure that I need a psychologist anyhow. I just want to get off these damn pills, and get back to my normal life!

 

Thanks again for your help and support! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...