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XANAX TO VALIUM


[it...]

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hi,

im currently stable at 1.75mg X at bedtime and 40mg Valium at bedtime . i ONLY used benzes for SLEEP purposes , hence bedtime doses only .

Im following the ashton method. My MAIN concern is that i will eventually end up on 70mg Valium for bedtime dose . Im going to feel groggy all day correct ?

Is there another way i can taper my xanax / valium , maybe trying to start dose tapers during the day, so that ill feel more stable and less groggy ?

please help with suggestions

thnx

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[5f...]

If you're not experiencing any day-time anxiety, there's no reason to split your dose.

On the contrary here are a few reasons not to split your dose:

 

1. You were taking Xanax for sleep issues.

Withdrawal tends to hit you where it hurts i.e. rebound insomnia.

 

2. Valium is long-acting and can be taken once per day.

Even if you split your dose, you'd still have to return to once daily eventually.

 

3. You develop tolerance to the extra sedation as you switch over.

 

If, however, you decide to split your dose, I'd do it at most twice daily,

with most of the dosage taken at night.

 

Now that I've answered your question, I have one of my own.

1.75mg Xanax + 40mg Valium is equivalent to 75mg not 70mg Valium.

In an earlier post you mentioned taking 2mg Xanax + 30mg Valium = 70mg Valium.

Did you updose?

 

My main concern is that you aren't following the Ashton Manual.

If you read carefully, you'll notice that she never converts the full amount

of any benzo when starting from a high dose.

Instead, she converts part of the initial dose and then tapers the remainder.

The reason is that while you can tolerate 6mg Xanax - 120mg Valium equivalent -

the maximum daily dosage of Valium is only about 50mg.

 

If I were you, I'd convert another 0.5mg Xanax to 10mg Valium and

then start reducing the remaining Xanax in 0.25mg decrements every couple of weeks.

That way, Valium should cover Xanax withdrawal without making you sleepy.

 

Hope this helps.

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Hi

many thanks fro your reply.

im exactly on 1.75x & 40mg V at bedtime and have he'd this for 1 week now with no sleep issues.

i tried the week before to drop 0.125mgX with NO valium substitute and slept terribly. I again preserved and tried a 2nd night and again slept terribly, so i gave up. I must say since i was initially on 6mg only of xanax 3/4 months ago i did successfully reduce on a couple of occasions with substituting with Valium, but now that im at the lower dose of Xanax , the sleep issues seem to re-occur with just a xanax slight drop and no valium substitute .

So im back to my current situation of 1.75x & 40mg V at bedtime only.

what do you suggest ?

and many thanks for your comments and advice so thank you

 

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[5f...]

Dropping 0.125mg Xanax from 1.75mg plus 40mg Valium is approximately a 3.3% cut.

That's a relatively small cut and I'm surprised you couldn't handle it,

but you only gave it 2 days and you'd need at least a week to adjust.

Then again maybe you're really sensitive to withdrawal,

so the only thing I can suggest is a slower version of my previous suggestion.

I'd start by converting another 0.5mg Xanax to 10mg Valium in 2 weekly steps,

that is 0.25mg Xanax to 5mg Valium per week.

This would leave you with 1.25mg Xanax and 50mg Valium to taper.

You could then try reducing Xanax again in 0.125mg decrements every couple weeks.

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HI

thats a great idea .

i have a week off work in 3 weeks , so i can start the 0.25mgX / .05V later this week, and continue the week after so that im on 50mg V & 1.25X

i will then have a week off work to help with any sleep issues that may occur when i start the 0.125X drop

many thanks for your advice

will let you know how i get on

 

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Hi

Im on my 3rd night from swapping to 1.25X & 50mg V and each night ive had insomnia .

i fall asleep initially at 930-10pm then wake 3 hrs later on all 3 x nights) and have insomnia for the rest of the night till i have to wake up ay 830am .

i havt experienced 'rebound' insomnia whilst substituting the valium in the past and wonder why this is happening ?

Do you think it will get back to normal in couple days ?

Or shall i say take 1.25x & 30mgV at bedtime and then when i wake take the other 20mg V ?

sorry to bother you with these questions . insomnia is the worst and its day 3 now and i'm feeling pretty awful & im starting to wonder why this is happening . i guess its because im nearing the lower end of the xanax dose which becomes more difficult ?

thanks

 

 

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im sorry ive just realised i jumped to quickly .

i misread your advice

i will go back to 0.25X & 5V for this following week  .

THEN, week after this another 0.25X & 5V

 

then will finally be on 1.25x & 50V to taper

 

my apologies

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Outis,

 

I greatly appreciate your tables and have decided to go down the substitution path (assuming my doctor will support me). I don’t have a great deal of issues with sleep so wondering if it would be best at stage 4 to exchange morning for evening? I am also wondering if doing so might somewhat “offset” the afternoon dose (???) due to the advantage of diazepam being so long-acting? I guess though it doesn’t peak as quickly as Xanax which I assume is an important factor (unlike you, I suck at math!)? I would be very grateful for your opinion – thanks again Outis, :smitten: Hamonee

 

PS - I think your math challenges are a great way to distract (and exercise the brain) from sxs, albeit way above my kindy level capability.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Outis,

 

I hope you're well

 

i wanted to reach out to you . This has been my situation over the last 3 weeks nearly

So i dropped 0.25X to 5mgV starting from 12th Feb. Goal of 1.50X to 45mgV over a 1 week period. For 2 weeks ( i didn't want to reduce further after week 1 as i hadn't felt like id sustained any satisfactory 'leve'l ), I've suffered on numerous occasions sleep issues. What i keep finding that happens is i take my dose at say 930 pm and almost on the dot, i awake at 230-3am. I then have complete insomnia until i have to get up at 830am. I think i slept twice from 930 to 8am over the last 14 days. Probably because of being totally exhausted more than anything else.

On 2nd March i preserved and instead of starting your suggested reduction of xanax by 0.125mg every 2 weeks, i wanted to carry on with your suggested reduction of .25mgX with 5mg V, so to hit the target of 1.25mgX & 50mgV.

On march 1st i started this taper and i've had the same sleep issues as before. i take the dose at 930 and i awake at 230-3am, and my mind is racing and i cant fall back to sleep. SOMETIMES,  i may nodd off at 5/6 am , BUT rarely .

its all starting to affect me quite considerably now. For 3 weeks i've probably slept 4/5 decent nights sleep. Im currently on day 3 of 1.25mgX v& 50mgV.

Can i ask you WHY i keep waking at 230-3am and then cant fall back to sleep ? And, also, what do you suggest ? Im obv super sensitive to tapers & sleep sensitivity.

Im dreading the xanax reduction with no taper to valium as i don't know how id cope with the rebound effects.

 

i look forward to hearing from you

 

 

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[5f...]

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time.

Some of us never fully stabilize between changes.

In that case, the best you can do is

move forward at a slow pace to minimize discomfort,

instead of waiting for some stability that may never come.

If I were you, I'd give myself a couple of weeks to

adjust and then move on to tapering the remaining Xanax.

One thing I've found helpful is taking my dose

about an hour before bed-time.

Another thing I know for sure is that the need for sleep is

so powerful that an adequate sleep pattern eventually returns.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Outis

so ive had id say 5/6 decent sleeps from 10pm all the way through to sometimes 530am, but mostly 430-5am since i started taking the 1.25x at 730-8pm and the valium at 10pm when i got to sleep . ( you suggested an hr before but i thought id try 3 hrs before as Xanax is so short life in effect ). So your suggestion seems to have worked to an extent so thank you . i guess the dose of 50mg valium at 10pm just overwhelms the wearing off of the xanax and i continue sleeping. the sleeping is as always primarily REM sleep, so i do feel tired still all day as i'm not really get DEEP sleep but any sleep whether REM or not helps keep me positive about everything and my journey with coming of benzos.

 

im about to start this friday dropping the xanax from 1.25 to 1.125mg with NO valium substitute .

lets see how its goes , but i'm also going to continue with taking it about 3 hrs before my valium bedtime dose off 50mg.

will keep you updated !

many thnx again Outis

 

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