Well I'm Up Again! Also a Few Questions if someone can answer

O.K, Well I expect to have this Continuation of every other night sleeps, usually if I cant sleep the initial night with no meds I take Nyquil the second as I do not want to take it EVERY NIGHT

 

My Questions are:

 

#1. Those who are like me with 40+ hours awake and less then 5 hours of sleep is it odd to of course feel tired but not feel Passing out tired?

#2. Is it also odd to feel more tired when your walking around or sitting but when you hop into bed lying down trying to sleep you feel more alert

#3. Some Places I heard Valerian Root is Bad for WD cause it works on the GABA as well, is this true?

#4. Do't know if its BEing on it, WD or Just Anxiety, but while Im laying in bed Eyes Closed trying to sleep sometimes my Muscles twitch and my body shakes, yet I am not asleep but trying...is that Normal?

 

Basically Since this all started for me 3 years ago, 99% of nights I ALWAYS took something to put me out, weather it be Ativan for the Most Part, Ambien Early on, Pamelor, Remeron a few times and Nyquil, it seems basically my Brain tells me NO SLEEP unless I have something in return!

 

I just sure as hell hope with staying up so long and getting only 5 hours of sleep won't eventually Kill me

O.K, Well I expect to have this Continuation of every other night sleeps, usually if I cant sleep the initial night with no meds I take Nyquil the second as I do not want to take it EVERY NIGHT

 

My Questions are:

 

#1. Those who are like me with 40+ hours awake and less then 5 hours of sleep is it odd to of course feel tired but not feel Passing out tired?

#2. Is it also odd to feel more tired when your walking around or sitting but when you hop into bed lying down trying to sleep you feel more alert

#3. Some Places I heard Valerian Root is Bad for WD cause it works on the GABA as well, is this true?

#4. Do't know if its BEing on it, WD or Just Anxiety, but while Im laying in bed Eyes Closed trying to sleep sometimes my Muscles twitch and my body shakes, yet I am not asleep but trying...is that Normal?

 

Basically Since this all started for me 3 years ago, 99% of nights I ALWAYS took something to put me out, weather it be Ativan for the Most Part, Ambien Early on, Pamelor, Remeron a few times and Nyquil, it seems basically my Brain tells me NO SLEEP unless I have something in return!

 

I just sure as hell hope with staying up so long and getting only 5 hours of sleep won't eventually Kill me

 

Mark I went through a long period of every other night getting sleep.  It was sorta bitter sweet in that I was happy I got some sleep, but then knew I would probably get none the next night.  But that was after I was off of everything for about 5-6 months.  Many other BB said they went through the same thing.  I did a cold turkey...I would not recommend that, but it worked for me.  To answer your questions based on my experience:

 

1) Yes, very normal to feel tired and "wired"  Even now when I have an off night say 2, 3 or 4 hours of sleep, I often don't feel tired or even close to pass out tired.  On some of my off nights, I actually feel normal except that I only got 3 or 4 hours of sleep

2) Yes, very common to feel tired doing physical activity and then get and bed and be wide awake

3) Yes and no...it all depends on the person.  Just as everyone reacts to drugs differently, everyone reacts to supplements differently too.  If you must take something, Valerian is "safe" compared to a prescription drug.  But again, see how strong you can be, and get off of everything and let sleep return on its own.

4) Yes, muscle twitching is a VERY COMMON withdrawal symptom.  I had that for months.  Very annoying. 

 

Mark, your brain is not telling you, you need something to sleep, you are telling your brain that by convincing yourself you need something to sleep.  As I said earlier, you are physically and mentally telling yourself you need something in order to sleep.  That is a BIG FAT BENZO/DRUG LIE.  I used to think the same thing, now I can fall asleep on my own.  Got about 7 hours again last night.

 

Also, please keep in mind that according to Dr. Ashton and many, many Benzo Buddies, the original issues you had go away after WD ends.  So in other words if you had anxiety and went on Benzos to help with that, after you get off of them and recover the anxiety is much more manageable or completely gone.  The same is true with insomnia.  If you went on Benzos for insomnia, once you are off and through WD, your insomnia goes away or is much better.  Unfortunately, there is a big price to pay to get back to normal for some people.  Again, I cannot stress enough to do a proper taper and endure whatever WD you are going to have to endure to get better. 

 

No lack of sleep will NOT kill you.  8 hours a day is a complete Myth.  Some great people, such as Edison, lived on 3 hours per day.  Some other people that struggle with insomnia most of their lives average 2-3 hours per night and live pretty normal lives.  I know some of them personally.

 

Hang in there, it will get worse before it gets better, but you need to get off of Rx drugs safely and NEVER go on them again!

Past like 80 hours I only got 5-6 hours of sleep and took nyquil to do it, I know you said sometimes you were up 3-4 days, Also usually when Im up this long and try to sleep again at night I get Crying spells, I rarley Cry

 

Id love to get 2-3 hours sleep without drugs instead of 0 like Im gettin now!

Uncontrollable crying is a WD symptom, I know when I was sleep deprived I cried easily and at things that would never make me cry now. In fact, I couldn't watch violent movies or even an NFL game.  It messed with my fragile, ramped up nervous system.  So, if you have been off for 4 days, you did a Cold Turkey.  I will not lie, cold turkey produces some of the most intense WD known.  Not that you can't get this if you taper, you can, but just be ready for some longer periods with zero or no sleep.  I didn't sleep for 3 or 4 days straight after I did a cold turkey and I was only on benzos for 11 weeks.  Sometimes short-term users recover faster, sometimes not.  Sometimes long-term users recover faster.  It's a guessing game, but what you should never ever do, is put another benzo or any other Rx drug in your mouth again.  This is not medical advice, just what you will hear from everyone that has mostly or fully recovered.  The other thing is that it will get better, you will start to sleep more and more and once that happens, your life will slowly change for the better.

 

Also, I never got sick once either, not even a cold when I was living on 5 hours of sleep a week sometimes.  Heart attacks and brain damage will not happen from lack of sleep.  It is the benzos lying to you and telling you that you won't get better. 

What sucks is when I go a day without sleep the next night my anxiety ramps up when I try again and thats when I start to cry because I cant sleep

I stopped beating myself up over falling asleep. If I wake up too early I lay there and stretch and meditate for a while. I get up when I can't justify laying there anymore. Later on I lay in bed and read and pass out if my body wants to, in the PM. (I am retired now). This has changed my stress levels about how to get to sleep and stay there. And i have had this problem since I was 3 years old.

 

Also breathing is the gateway to sleep. Deep breathing, hyperventilating, anything to get you out of underbreathing. It think that's what causes insomnia.

 

Winston Churchill was a depressive insomniac who rarely slept. In spite of this he got Britain through WW 2. and lived to a good age.

 

Of course he drank like a fish , but then he wasn't fighting A.D. or benzo withdrawal .

What sucks is when I go a day without sleep the next night my anxiety ramps up when I try again and thats when I start to cry because I cant sleep

 

The anxiety sucks, but until you are ready to accept that you are not going to sleep, it will not get easier.  My family and other Benzo Buddies kept screaming acceptance to me.  I thought they were crazy, how could I accept such a situation?  But acceptance is something that only comes when you are ready for it.  Try not worrying if you sleep or not and sleep will come.  That's what finally worked for me.  No other non-benzo drugs or supplements, just accepting the fact that I probably won't get any sleep AND NOT CARING one way or the other.  I know, way easier said than done, but once you are ready to accept where you are at, you will start to sleep.  I started with 30 minutes, then 60 and then 2-3 hours, etc.  It takes time AND remember you will still have off days and zero days after you start sleeping even a little.  I still get off days at 16 months off of all drugs about 2 -3 times per month where I only get 2 - 4 hours per night, but it's no big deal anymore as I always get decent sleep the next night.  You'll get your life back.

 

 

 

Acceptance is hard but it is finally the only thing that works. We have to get the 'Should be doing this , or disaster will happen because I'm not getting eight hours' voice out of our heads.

 

i have accepted that for right now I will get pain at night so bad that it wakes me up and makes staying in bed / sleeping impossible. Not fighting it is the key. I get up and move, read , colour , and then relatively pain free , go back to bed to sleep until the pain wakes me up again. This is part of my healing and for right now, it is what it is. I'm grateful that I can function on so little sleep.

Yeah its difficult I keep trying, Also its odd.....I was up 43 hours slept 5 or 6 now up again same time, I could try to sleep sooner but I never have achieved sleep during the day which is why Im up longer like 36 hours to get back to nights

 

Its odd, though all that I really feel tired but still not the my eyes are closing I need Sleep Right Now tired if you know what I mean, not sure if all this staying up is Adrenal Fatigue or not

Mark,

I have explained this to others many times, but perhaps it will help you understand what is going. I got this from my internet research that I did earlier in my withdrawal.

 

Benzos relax you by stimulating chemical reactions in the brain that help you sleep and recover from sudden stimuli that trigger fight or flight reactions. Without these calming reactions we would have a hard time sleeping and always be in an anxious state (sound familiar?). Our brain is designed to seek and maintain equilibrium. When it detects the artificially elevated levels of calming reactions from benzos it will attempt to balance things out by sending signals to shut down the reactions. People grow tolerant to benzos because when used too much, their brains will start to fight the drug. When the drug is no longer being taken, not only is the brain being deprived of the artificially induced calming reactions, it continues to suppress any natural reaction for a very long time (perhaps because of temporary damage). This is why you are not sleeping and feeling so anxious right now, although lack of sleep also adds to anxiety itself. The ONLY cure is to allow ample time for your brain to sort things out so that healing can take place. This WILL happen.

thats a nice read but man this is already difficult for me, Ive been up 40+ before but not back to back only after 6 hours sleep, I just dont wanna die before things get sorted, especially if Im up for days on end

thats a nice read but man this is already difficult for me, Ive been up 40+ before but not back to back only after 6 hours sleep, I just dont wanna die before things get sorted, especially if Im up for days on end

 

You see Mark, sleep has a very wicked sense of humor. The more you chase it the more it will elude you. Since SFI hasn’t killed you yet. What about a new sig? "Trying Not to Obsess About Sleep" instead of "Trying to Get Better"? Just had such a thought. Only joking. With absolutely no desire to laugh. Your sig is okay. Since you’re trying to get better, it seems to me you have abandoned that cherished idea of having SFI. Too tired to answer your questions, sorry. I really don’t count the hours without sleep. It doesn’t make sense to me. Take care

thats a nice read but man this is already difficult for me, Ive been up 40+ before but not back to back only after 6 hours sleep, I just dont wanna die before things get sorted, especially if Im up for days on end

 

I can't promise that you are not going to die. A stray bullet from a drive-by shooting might have your name on it or something, but you won't die from withdrawal insomnia. I promise that you are getting more sleep than you think and that your body will fall into deeper sleep before it reaches a critical shortage of it. You are in the worst phase of withdrawal right now, but it will ease up a bit and you will actually learn to deal with things a little better. Time will pass regardless of how crappy life might seem right now and the day will come when all of this will be in your rearview mirror. This forum is packed full of people who were in your shoes once upon a time, but got through it. It may seem like your own personal hell, but in reality, membership is far from exclusive.

O.K, Well I expect to have this Continuation of every other night sleeps, usually if I cant sleep the initial night with no meds I take Nyquil the second as I do not want to take it EVERY NIGHT

 

My Questions are:

 

#1. Those who are like me with 40+ hours awake and less then 5 hours of sleep is it odd to of course feel tired but not feel Passing out tired?

#2. Is it also odd to feel more tired when your walking around or sitting but when you hop into bed lying down trying to sleep you feel more alert

#3. Some Places I heard Valerian Root is Bad for WD cause it works on the GABA as well, is this true?

#4. Do't know if its BEing on it, WD or Just Anxiety, but while Im laying in bed Eyes Closed trying to sleep sometimes my Muscles twitch and my body shakes, yet I am not asleep but trying...is that Normal?

 

Basically Since this all started for me 3 years ago, 99% of nights I ALWAYS took something to put me out, weather it be Ativan for the Most Part, Ambien Early on, Pamelor, Remeron a few times and Nyquil, it seems basically my Brain tells me NO SLEEP unless I have something in return!

 

I just sure as hell hope with staying up so long and getting only 5 hours of sleep won't eventually Kill me

 

Mark,

 

It seems like all of your energy is going into focusing on sleep and insomnia. Like Estee said, the pursuit of sleep often chases it away. Acceptance of where you are and letting go of fighting the process, particularly fighting it with drugs, is the pathway to healing. Even if you feel like crap, find ways to go on with your life. Take a walk, watch some TV, surf the internet (not on areas related to sleep, insomnia or benzos), cook something, even do chores then pat yourself on the back for every tiny thing you accomplish, every hour you get through. Don't waste your time lying in bed trying to sleep if you're wide awake. Read, play a game, do relaxation exercises but lying there tense will only produce a conditioned response to bed (see Pavlov's dogs) that bed = awake and miserable.

 

I've gone more than ten days with no discernible sleep and had months and months of multiple runs of 3-5 days sleep free. For almost two years of benzo wd I took meds 3-4 times per week to sleep then got zero sleep the other nights. When I saw NO progress in sleep on my med free nights I finally gave up my last med, amitriptyline, so my brain could learn to sleep again on its own. It was brutal and I often doubted that I'd ever get any capacity to sleep back. I was convinced at times my brain was permanently damaged but I chose to believe the people on BB, and in neurogenesis and neuroplasticity, that my brain would heal.

 

I did all of this with CFS and at times soul crushing depression and panic/anxiety. For two years straight I wanted to die every single day. There was shaking, sobbing, hopelessness, and fear of the next room let alone leaving the house. But I saw time and again that when I forced my shaking, nauseated, miserable, terrified self out the door and made myself focus on something besides myself (especially trying to help someone else), I gained some ground. I felt better about myself, life seemed to matter a bit more, and I received some precious distraction from the hell my life was. I practiced gratitude every day, forcing myself to look for even the most ridiculous things I had to be grateful for.

 

Yes, what you're going through is hell but you're actively sabotaging yourself by going back and forth on meds and entertaining withdrawal's paranoid thoughts (SFI, etc). You can't help having paranoid thoughts in wd but you can choose what you do with them. Don't invite them in for tea, feed them scones, and make them as comfortable as possible. Notice them banging on the door and if they get past you, escort them back out. Over and over. Then do it again.

 

My life isn't perfect right now but I'll be 3 years off benzos tomorrow and 15 mos off everything else. Every night now I get some sleep-usually around 5 or 6 light hours. It's manageable and it continues to move forward with some setbacks here and there. This is after 28 continuous years of multiple psych and sleep meds and multiple times off and on benzos while having preexisting conditions. You can have a better life, Mark, but you're going to have to fight for it like you've never fought for anything before. That night you decide you can't take it anymore and break down to take medicine, that could be the night that you experience the breakthrough of natural sleep. Even if you're shaking, crying, puking, and desperate for sleep you can reframe it as an opportunity to let your brain do what it needs to. Our brains are amazing. Let yours do what it needs to.

 

MT

Well I think I slept 7 Initial hours last night after bring up for 38, but then again I took Nyquil to help, not doubt without it Id probably still be awake

 

Also the first time I got off ativan I substituted Pamelor for it to sleep, many of you don't know what Pamelor is I guess but it wasnt a Benzo it was an SSRI but I guess it worked almost the same on the brain

 

This time Besides Nyquil I havent tried to take anything that works on the brain

Well I think I slept 7 Initial hours last night after bring up for 38, but then again I took Nyquil to help, not doubt without it Id probably still be awake

 

Also the first time I got off ativan I substituted Pamelor for it to sleep, many of you don't know what Pamelor is I guess but it wasnt a Benzo it was an SSRI but I guess it worked almost the same on the brain

 

This time Besides Nyquil I havent tried to take anything that works on the brain

 

Mark,  this is going to be my last post on this subject.  Not to be mean, but you were given excellent advice by MT, Aloha, and Estee, Unfortunately their isn't anything natural, safe, non-benzo, non-drug that will help you.  It's about acceptance and not trying so hard to sleep.  There was a study done, true story, where the researchers brought in two groups of random people.  The first group was told that the 1st person in that group to fall asleep after a given time (say 7:00 pm) would receive $1,000.  The other group was told nothing and told one of them would win $1,000 in the morning, and they would notify that person then.  The researchers found out that the first group (told to fall asleep first in order to win the $1000) took 3 to 4 times longer to fall asleep then the 2nd group that was told nothing, because they were "trying" to fall asleep.  Sleep isn't something you can force yourself to do.  We have all tried to do this because of severe WD insomnia.  Drugs that "knock" you out, will only work for so long, then they will stop working, unless you increase the dose.  The drug road is a dead-end road that might bring a few decent sleeps here and there, but will ultimately prolong your ability to sleep on your own.  DISTRACTION along with ACCEPTANCE and being mentally strong will get you through this MUCH better than any natural substance or drug that can help with sleep.

 

Here is what you can expect.  Lots of days with little or no sleep, but that will improve.  Slowly, you will get more sleep on more days than days you won't get sleep.  It will be up and down, even after you think you have recovered you might experience a few "off days" of poor sleep.  It happens to normal, healthy sleepers.  I still have off nights and I have not touched a drug for 16 months.  You have to trust the recovery process.  You have to believe it will happen.  You have to focus on something else and live your life the best you can given the crappy circumstances.  Eventually your brain will sort things out and you will sleep naturally.  Wish I had a timeline, but I don't everyone is different, but it WILL happen given enough time. 

Well I think I slept 7 Initial hours last night after bring up for 38, but then again I took Nyquil to help, not doubt without it Id probably still be awake

 

Also the first time I got off ativan I substituted Pamelor for it to sleep, many of you don't know what Pamelor is I guess but it wasnt a Benzo it was an SSRI but I guess it worked almost the same on the brain

 

This time Besides Nyquil I havent tried to take anything that works on the brain

 

Mark,  this is going to be my last post on this subject.  Not to be mean, but you were given excellent advice by MT, Aloha, and Estee, Unfortunately their isn't anything natural, safe, non-benzo, non-drug that will help you.  It's about acceptance and not trying so hard to sleep.  There was a study done, true story, where the researchers brought in two groups of random people.  The first group was told that the 1st person in that group to fall asleep after a given time (say 7:00 pm) would receive $1,000.  The other group was told nothing and told one of them would win $1,000 in the morning, and they would notify that person then.  The researchers found out that the first group (told to fall asleep first in order to win the $1000) took 3 to 4 times longer to fall asleep then the 2nd group that was told nothing, because they were "trying" to fall asleep.  Sleep isn't something you can force yourself to do.  We have all tried to do this because of severe WD insomnia.  Drugs that "knock" you out, will only work for so long, then they will stop working, unless you increase the dose.  The drug road is a dead-end road that might bring a few decent sleeps here and there, but will ultimately prolong your ability to sleep on your own.  DISTRACTION along with ACCEPTANCE and being mentally strong will get you through this MUCH better than any natural substance or drug that can help with sleep.

 

Here is what you can expect.  Lots of days with little or no sleep, but that will improve.  Slowly, you will get more sleep on more days than days you won't get sleep.  It will be up and down, even after you think you have recovered you might experience a few "off days" of poor sleep.  It happens to normal, healthy sleepers.  I still have off nights and I have not touched a drug for 16 months.  You have to trust the recovery process.  You have to believe it will happen.  You have to focus on something else and live your life the best you can given the crappy circumstances.  Eventually your brain will sort things out and you will sleep naturally.  Wish I had a timeline, but I don't everyone is different, but it WILL happen given enough time.

 

Bravo, ThEwAy2!

 

This is the most concise and accurate comment I have seen on breaking the drug/insomnia cycle - thanks! 

 

Plus, of course, everyone else's great and supportive comments.

 

ThEwAy2 has provided an excellent nutshell, however.

Well I think I slept 7 Initial hours last night after bring up for 38, but then again I took Nyquil to help, not doubt without it Id probably still be awake

 

Also the first time I got off ativan I substituted Pamelor for it to sleep, many of you don't know what Pamelor is I guess but it wasnt a Benzo it was an SSRI but I guess it worked almost the same on the brain

 

This time Besides Nyquil I havent tried to take anything that works on the brain

 

Mark,  this is going to be my last post on this subject.  Not to be mean, but you were given excellent advice by MT, Aloha, and Estee, Unfortunately their isn't anything natural, safe, non-benzo, non-drug that will help you.  It's about acceptance and not trying so hard to sleep.  There was a study done, true story, where the researchers brought in two groups of random people.  The first group was told that the 1st person in that group to fall asleep after a given time (say 7:00 pm) would receive $1,000.  The other group was told nothing and told one of them would win $1,000 in the morning, and they would notify that person then.  The researchers found out that the first group (told to fall asleep first in order to win the $1000) took 3 to 4 times longer to fall asleep then the 2nd group that was told nothing, because they were "trying" to fall asleep.  Sleep isn't something you can force yourself to do.  We have all tried to do this because of severe WD insomnia.  Drugs that "knock" you out, will only work for so long, then they will stop working, unless you increase the dose.  The drug road is a dead-end road that might bring a few decent sleeps here and there, but will ultimately prolong your ability to sleep on your own.  DISTRACTION along with ACCEPTANCE and being mentally strong will get you through this MUCH better than any natural substance or drug that can help with sleep.

 

Here is what you can expect.  Lots of days with little or no sleep, but that will improve.  Slowly, you will get more sleep on more days than days you won't get sleep.  It will be up and down, even after you think you have recovered you might experience a few "off days" of poor sleep.  It happens to normal, healthy sleepers.  I still have off nights and I have not touched a drug for 16 months.  You have to trust the recovery process.  You have to believe it will happen.  You have to focus on something else and live your life the best you can given the crappy circumstances.  Eventually your brain will sort things out and you will sleep naturally.  Wish I had a timeline, but I don't everyone is different, but it WILL happen given enough time.

 

 

Well Theway, as I said I been trying to stay off the hard stuff, and I know you said STAY AWAY FROM BEZOS and Other stuff, but then I do recall 1 comment you said "Your Better off Taking the Nyquil" so Obviously though you say Benzos are bad which they are, Nyquil while maybe not helping alot is better to take then Benzos in a longer run

This is a great group of posts.  I’m having a wicked time sleeping as well and I think I need to bookmark and reread these posts every time I get frustrated when I can’t sleep.

Very good and encouraging posts, especially from ThEwAy2.... You have really encouraged me !.....I will get through this.  Thank you so much.

I also appreciated the posts by theway2. I shall print the comments off and put them next to my bed. I would not give any thoughts to ever taking benzos again. In fact I have told my family if I end up in the hospital I am not to be given benzos. Period.

Not that I plan on ending up in a hospital just now, but I want to have my bases covered. The times I have been in the hospital, before I started my taper, for what is most likely benzo related  issues, such as extreme dizziness and transient global amnesia, I will admit that I made sure I had a hidden benzo to "help" me sleep.  The memories of this horrible addiction amaze me! I've never "used drugs," smoked, drank, other than a glass of wine now and then and here I was hiding pills in my underwear in the hospital!! Well, the good news is I am forever benzo free. Even in my darkest days, I will say, how good is this?!? Awesome!!