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Kicking Xanax....is Valium necessary ???


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Hi Friends,

 

Looking at coming up with a plan to help kick Xanax (been on it 2 yrs). I take up to 1-2 mgs at night to sleep. I Start with 1mg at bed-time and if i wake up (usually 3 hrs later), i take another 1 mg. My PLAN is to cut that by 10% a week, until off.

 

I hear that "tapering" by substituting valium is the best way to go? Not sure as Valium seems to be a stronger drug n stays in your system longer.

 

Valium is supposed to be easier to quit. There's also a couple of other options, like hydroxzine and OTC aides

 

 

Questions

  • -I was considering "Hydroxyzine" as another option, but read its "dangerous" to combine with a Benzo. Is this true?
    • -If i can get my doctor to prescribe Valium, what dose should i get as a substitute for 2 mgs Xanax pills?
      • -What about just straight tapering Xanax? without Valium?

       

      Appreciate any Tips and Contructive input you can offer...

       

      Thanks for your help.

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No, I wouldn't say Valium is necessary, but it's recommended if/when a short-acting benzo taper is problematic.  I also tapered from 2mg of Xanax, but I didn't cross to Valium or any other benzodiazepine to taper.  I dry cut by small amounts until I quit at .0625mg (1/4 of a .25mg tablet).

 

Do you have access to .25mg tablets?  If not, I'd ask for my next refill to be this size.  It's much easier to cut small tablets.  If you're starting your taper at 2mg, you can cut .5mg tablets in quarters for the first couple of cuts, but in order to stay within the 10% taper plan you'll need smaller tablets to make cuts easier.

 

Valium can be very sedating and depressing from what I've read from others here.  I'd be wary of crossing over to it unless you are having too much trouble with withdrawal symptoms between doses of Xanax.  Even then, you can try dosing more often to see if that helps with the inter-dose symptoms.

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No, I wouldn't say Valium is necessary, but it's recommended if/when a short-acting benzo taper is problematic.  I also tapered from 2mg of Xanax, but I didn't cross to Valium or any other benzodiazepine to taper.  I dry cut by small amounts until I quit at .0625mg (1/4 of a .25mg tablet).

 

Do you have access to .25mg tablets?  If not, I'd ask for my next refill to be this size.  It's much easier to cut small tablets.  If you're starting your taper at 2mg, you can cut .5mg tablets in quarters for the first couple of cuts, but in order to stay within the 10% taper plan you'll need smaller tablets to make cuts easier.

 

Valium can be very sedating and depressing from what I've read from others here.  I'd be wary of crossing over to it unless you are having too much trouble with withdrawal symptoms between doses of Xanax.  Even then, you can try dosing more often to see if that helps with the inter-dose symptoms.

 

Thank you Charles

 

Right now, i only have 2 mgs pills. I split them in half. I think my plan will start by doing my 1 mgs at bedtime, then if i wake up, instead of doing another 1mgs, cut that by 50% (OR 1.2 mg).

 

So

-1 mg at bedtime

-.5 mg if i wake up (this happens a lot)

 

Splitting a pill is not difficult for me using a sharp 1 sided razor. OR, i can dilute them in a measuring cup and pour the dosage from there. ...Man...i can't believe i got hooked on this Med???


  • How long did it take you to get off them?

 

 

 

.

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Titrating Xanax with liquid wasn't easy or successful for me, but it can be done.  You probably don't need to do this unless cutting pills doesn't work for you, and it sounds like you've got that covered.

 

It took 9 months of tapering for me to get from 2mg daily to zero, but I held my dose for several months during the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays because they're stressful.  I resumed my taper after New Year's Eve and finished in April of 2012.  I'm only still here on the forum to help, not because I'm not well again.

 

As to being hooked, I said pretty much the same thing.  I'm one who is very cautious about taking anything, including alcohol.  When I was first prescribed the Xanax, I took only 1/2 of the .25mg tablet I was given.  Even that small amount hit me pretty hard.  I can't believe I got all the way up to 2mg over the years, but that's how these drugs go, unfortunately.  I wish I'd known before I started taking them.  I may have made a different decision, although I have to also say Xanax got me through a terribly difficult time.

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I am currently tapering off Xanax.  I didn't know about this site when I started so I consulted with my doctor who has let the schedule up to me.  I started with 1mg tablets and cut from there, then got .50 tablets and now 0.25 tablets.  I chose not to cross over to Valium for two reasons:  1. Valium is known to have depressive side effects as well as fatigue.  2.  Better to deal with the devil you know than the one you don't. 

 

I dry cut until I got to .375 and then started daily liquid microtapering.  To do this you must dissolve your tablets in a solvent such as alcohol or PG ( amazon) as Xanax isn't water soluable. 

 

Some people experience interdose withdrawals with xanax due to its short acting properties.  If this happens to you, you may need to dose twice a day. 

 

If you choose to liquid titrate, there are people on the forum who are available to help with the math if you are unsure of how to prepare a dose. 

 

You are smart to want to kick the xanax to the curb.  I wish you the best.  If I can ever help you, please PM me. 

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[24...]

First of all, let me say that although I am not a doctor, I have done tons of research,

and I have personal experience with both alprazolam and diazepam.

I have also taken the time to read all your posts, to get a better history.

I'll be quoting you from many posts on different topics.

 

I take up to 1-2 mgs at night to sleep.

I Start with 1mg at bed-time and if i wake up (usually 3 hrs later), i take another 1 mg.

 

From there (~1.5mg), you plan on going to ~1.25mg:

 

-1 mg at bedtime

-.5 mg if i wake up (this happens a lot)

 

That's about a 16.7% cut of a drug you take "as needed" - both inadvisable.

I took the liberty of numbering your sentences in my next quotation, to address them in a proper order.

 

1. I hear that "tapering" by substituting valium is the best way to go?

2. Not sure as Valium seems to be a stronger drug n stays in your system longer.

3. If i can get my doctor to prescribe Valium, what dose should i get as a substitute for 2 mgs Xanax pills?

4. What about just straight tapering Xanax?

 

2. Diazepam is less potent than alprazolam.

4. Some people can withdraw directly from alprazolam, while others find it hard;

Your history of 6h max interrupted sleep suggests to me that you may be part of the latter group.

 

1. Ashton definitely thinks so, and it seems to be working for me.

Again, given your history, it might be the best way for you.

Let me elaborate on that. In your intro you wrote:

 

Right now, i am doing approx. 1 mg of Xanax and 15mgs of Temazepam a day.

My schedule is I take the Xanax at bedtime (apx 1mg), and usually get about 3 hrs of sleep.

Then i take the Temazopam (aprx 15mgs), and get another 3 hrs sleep.

 

Temazepam is an active metabolite of diazepam.

By substituting alprazolam with diazepam, you'll essentially be taking a "small" dose of temazepam mid-sleep,

potentially enabling you to get a full night's sleep.

 

3. That's a tricky question since you don't take a steady dose of alprazolam.

The short answer (per Ashton) is: 2mg alprazolam = 40mg diazepam. Now for the long answer.

Because some nights you take only 1mg alprazolam, you might be able to cope with as low as 20mg diazepam.

A more plausible scenario would be to consider your average dose: 1.5mg alprazolam = 30mg diazepam.

You could also start at 40mg diazepam and then lower it if you feel very sleepy.

 

Finally, here are some rules of thumb:

a. Make ~10% cuts every 1-2 weeks.

b. If you decide on a diazepam taper, make the substitution gradually:

no more than .5mg alprazolam with 10mg diazepam per week.

 

Hope I helped.

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There's a reason why longer acting benzos are substituted for shorter ones. The first being is that your withdrawal will be much more severe (albiet shorter). However, what is more important is that when you get down to those low, low doses of Xanax, you WILL get inter-dose withdrawals as you body metabolizes the smaller amounts of the drug much more rapidly. You will thus need to add additional doses to avoid them.

 

I should give an anecdote from personal experience here. I attempted an etizolam taper (5-7 hour half life; metabolites have a half life of 8 hours; duration of effects at common doses 9-11 hours). I've had both etizolam and xanax and the feeling is very similar, albiet etizolam lasts about an hour or 2 less. I was doing fine initially at 2 doses a day. Then, as I cut more, I had to add an additional daily dose (3x a day) as I was getting hit with withdrawals much earlier than expected. 3x a day became 4x a day to avoid inter-dose W/D, which were getting worse and worse. I realized I was taking the same daily dose as I was at the beginning of my taper, just with more daily doses in smaller amounts. I then began trying make the etizolam last longer by taking white grapefruit juice and cimetidine to inhibit the CYP3A4 and CYP2C19 enzymes that break the drug down so I wouldn't have to keep dose splitting. By adding potentiators into the mix, I was able to make the etiz last longer, however the effects of the drug also became much stronger, and my taper went out the window.

 

Substitution tapers are tried and true. If you have the option for diazepam or klon, go for it.

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There's a reason why longer acting benzos are substituted for shorter ones. The first being is that your withdrawal will be much more severe (albiet shorter). However, what is more important is that when you get down to those low, low doses of Xanax, you WILL get inter-dose withdrawals as you body metabolizes the smaller amounts of the drug much more rapidly. You will thus need to add additional doses to avoid them.

I should give an anecdote from personal experience here. I attempted an etizolam taper (5-7 hour half life; metabolites have a half life of 8 hours; duration of effects at common doses 9-11 hours). I've had both etizolam and xanax and the feeling is very similar, albiet etizolam lasts about an hour or 2 less. I was doing fine initially at 2 doses a day. Then, as I cut more, I had to add an additional daily dose (3x a day) as I was getting hit with withdrawals much earlier than expected. 3x a day became 4x a day to avoid inter-dose W/D, which were getting worse and worse. I realized I was taking the same daily dose as I was at the beginning of my taper, just with more daily doses in smaller amounts. I then began trying make the etizolam last longer by taking white grapefruit juice and cimetidine to inhibit the CYP3A4 and CYP2C19 enzymes that break the drug down so I wouldn't have to keep dose splitting. By adding potentiators into the mix, I was able to make the etiz last longer, however the effects of the drug also became much stronger, and my taper went out the window.

 

Substitution tapers are tried and true. If you have the option for diazepam or klon, go for it.

 

Not everyone will have this happen.  I didn't.  I dry cut from 2mg to .0625mg without having interdose issues.  I was splitting my daily amount into four doses.

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There's a reason why longer acting benzos are substituted for shorter ones. The first being is that your withdrawal will be much more severe (albiet shorter). However, what is more important is that when you get down to those low, low doses of Xanax, you WILL get inter-dose withdrawals as you body metabolizes the smaller amounts of the drug much more rapidly. You will thus need to add additional doses to avoid them.

I should give an anecdote from personal experience here. I attempted an etizolam taper (5-7 hour half life; metabolites have a half life of 8 hours; duration of effects at common doses 9-11 hours). I've had both etizolam and xanax and the feeling is very similar, albiet etizolam lasts about an hour or 2 less. I was doing fine initially at 2 doses a day. Then, as I cut more, I had to add an additional daily dose (3x a day) as I was getting hit with withdrawals much earlier than expected. 3x a day became 4x a day to avoid inter-dose W/D, which were getting worse and worse. I realized I was taking the same daily dose as I was at the beginning of my taper, just with more daily doses in smaller amounts. I then began trying make the etizolam last longer by taking white grapefruit juice and cimetidine to inhibit the CYP3A4 and CYP2C19 enzymes that break the drug down so I wouldn't have to keep dose splitting. By adding potentiators into the mix, I was able to make the etiz last longer, however the effects of the drug also became much stronger, and my taper went out the window.

 

Substitution tapers are tried and true. If you have the option for diazepam or klon, go for it.

 

Not everyone will have this happen.  I didn't.  I dry cut from 2mg to .0625mg without having interdose issues.  I was splitting my daily amount into four doses.

 

My interdose went away as I got lower.  I was able to lower my dosing from 4 to 3 to 2 and then once a day.

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I started at 6 mg Xanax daily, 2 mg 3 times a day. I have slowly weaned - 4 doses a day works better for me to just under 3 mg a day. Magnesium has helped me, my situation may be different than yours. My reason for taking Xanax has been life long anxiety and panic disorder and insomnia. I have done a lot of reading on the subject and use mindfulness to help me remain calm. I can’t say for sure what has helped the most but I feel better on the lower dose of Xanax. It’s going to be a long process but I am hopeful to be free of it and still be able to sleep, be calm without the aid of Xanax.

 

It’s hard to remember to take meds 4 times a day, I put an app on my phone it safes me lol.

 

Good luck I hope you find a solution that works for you. We are all so different.

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Hello- just want to chime in here with Challis- I too tapered off xanax after many years of use. I chose to stick with xanax rather than crossover to valium as I was familiar with the  xanax and how it felt in my system and didn't want to introduce another benzo in my body.  I am gladd  I did- I have heard  some people who felt the valium brought on depression which was the last thing I needed in the midst of a taper. It is possible to dry cut to the end if you have .25 size pills that you can cut into quarters. I dosed three times daily  as long as I could then went down to two doses daily. With a pill splitter it was fairly easy to cut the pills. I also wanted to give you hope that it is possible to break free of the grip of xanax. Life is better once xanax is behind you. Best of luck!
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How many daily doses were you taking before the taper? My Etiz taper may have worked if I had started out with 4 daily doses, as much of a nuisance as that is. I guess if you're going to taper from short acting benzos, prepare for the interdose withdrawals by starting off with 4x a day doses.

 

Maybe my liver just metabolizes things way too fast...  ;)

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I was taking .5 mg three times a day for thirty years- beginning my taper I stuck to 3 doses per day- I just decreased the amount of the doses gradually. Eventually I got to two doses per day but I never went to just one dose a day.With xanax I didn't think one dose a day would work for my body.
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  • 9 months later...

Not everyone will have this happen.  I didn't.  I dry cut from 2mg to .0625mg without having interdose issues.  I was splitting my daily amount into four doses.

 

Challis....are you saying that splitting the dose through-out the day is a more effective way of 'Taping off?'

 

Thanks for your input...

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