Experiences of quicker cross-overs (especially from clonazepam to diazepam)?

Hello Buddies!

 

So, in short. I was already at 0.5mg of clonazepam just a couple of months ago. With this in my mind I'm considering to try bigger drops of clonazepam doses once I feel 100% ready to make one. Also, I started the process (by Ashton's manual) right at 2mg of clonazepam + 2 x 10mg of diazepam per day, instead of 2,5mg etc.

 

So, I'm CONSIDERING to skip also the next step of the Manual, like I did without problems when I started the cross-over, and move to the following step where you take just 1mg of clonazepam per day, with 30mg of diazepam (which was the prescribed dose by my Dr. WITHOUT clonazepam at all...). Keeping in mind that I was at 0.5mg of clonazepam just about 8 weeks ago, maybe, with the support of diazepam, it wouldn't be that big shock to my system to drop at 1mg, instead of 1,5mg of clonazepam? Also I know from my experience that the bigger the dose, the easier it is to make bigger cuts. I don't want my body excessively of time to get used to higher doses of clonazepam again... With the support of diazepam I believe it should be tolerable. And after all, I should already to be totally free from clonazepam, if I would listen to my doctor... I have a quite large storage of clonazepam though, thanks to my last w/d process, so there's no hurry at that point of view, but I hate to be AGAIN at 2mg of clonazepam daily (with the diazepam)!!! I really want to get off from it as soon as possible.

 

Does this make sense, are there any buddies who has successfully made quicker (than it's suggested in the Ashton manual) cross-overs from clonazepam to diazepam? I really don't have anxiety pretty much at all, at least yet, all symptoms has been mild physical ones, and tomorrow it's 10 days at this "medication".

.

Tried to drop the dose in the weekend to 1.5mg per day but then quickly decided I stick with this current dose until the physical signs are completely gone. Now I have only a mild tic above my left eye, started just before mid-day dose. It's now 12 days at this dose, maybe the magical 14 days is what it takes to move forward on the schedule. That will be by the manual, so 1.5mg clonazepam with 25mg diazepam per day. I'm happy that I managed to cut from 3mg straight to 2mg, but cutting another 1mg suddenly could be playing with a fire.

The hell with it, I didn't have any symptoms left after the day 12, and yesterday it was day 14 with the 2mg clonazepam, and because today is my last day at work I just took 1mg clonazepam yesterday. Went also from 20mg to 30mg of diazepam (my prescripted dose), which is working great for me already. I also dropped the mirtazapine cold turkey because I didn't want to continue with it, after 2 weeks of DAILY use, I'm not interested to go through another long w/d. I slept really well this night without it, but I know that the symptoms can come later. But, I rather stay awake for a week than take it anymore.

Ace..i don't have anything to add...(just watching and listening)....but just wanted to reply ...say hi...

 

there are people out here listening even if not replying

 

hope it goes well

Hi firefly, good to know I'm not alone here. Thank you

 

I am already feeling the lower dose, not any physical symptoms yet though, but it will come, and I'm ready to face it. Just finished working. I'm glad that my wife has a job. I'm not sure when I get the next paycheck, but I have some savings for this w/d process.

 

PS. Just finished a great workout in my home gym, I need regular exercise to feel good / better physically and mentally. I was a distance runner in my 20ties, raced anything between 100m dash - marathon, although the 800m was my main event. Now it's more like lifting, sprinting, jogging/biking/hiking... Oh, I was going to say that the nature is very important for me, and then suddenly it crossed my mind that there's this Jim Carrey film called "AceVentura: When Nature Calls"    I also really like comedy and Jim Carrey too, and I use my nickname in lots of places where you have to make one.

 

Just a quick copy/paste update from my progress log 

 

Yesterday I had 10 hours between doses, today I got 21hours between doses of clonazepam, tomorrow I aim to take it 24 hours after todays dose. I'm confident and happy how well this has gone so far, I've managed to cut 2,5mg from that crap in just 3 weeks. This quicker cross-over is going well, even MUCH better than I thought. It's like my body still remembers that it's not that long ago when I was @ .5mg Rivatril/Klonopin daily, but of course this would have been impossible without the longer acting diazepam.

 

 

again..i have no basis of reference on the cross-over - only considering it if i need to at the end of my taper (zopiclone+ativan).  I know others have crossed over from clonazepam to valium too and you might benefit from talking to some of them - maybe do a search or just peruse around the board and try and find other threads or blogs...i'm sure there's others with similar situations that can comment on that end of things. 

 

As for exercise....Myself, i'm trying to take myself out for walks in the evenings too - i think exercise and fresh air can be very healing at times

i know though each time i've forced myself lately i've felt better for it so i keep trying to force myself out.

 

(ps: I know some here are in far too much pain and can't get out and i understand and respect that.. ..i feel for all of you...I do...)

 

i just mean for those of us who can - and like myself - FORCE Myself to - it can be helpful for sure

 

Sounds like you're on the  path and doing well.

Happy for you!!

 

Hope things keep going smoothly - and for many who do well on valium i gather they do! - or at least 'more' smoothly than klonapin alone

 

thanks for the update

firefly

Good morning! Well, I'm more realistic, I have felt better, but at least I don't have the depression from the morning clonazepam (because didn't take it). The side effects from Rivatril/Klonopin is just too much for me and I feel that this quicker cross-over is what I need, and can tolerate it quite well, but we are all different with different background.

 

I slept well again, that's always a good start to the day. But I did feel kind of "blunt" or I don't know what's the right word, I speak Finnish! I didn't feel "empty" or light headed but this is withdrawal already, while doing the cross-over. When thinking the doses of .5mg C and 30mg D, I'm now at an equivalent dose for 2mg clonazepam per day. So, it's a long way still to go. I'm waiting the day when I'm finally off of clonazepam. .5mg left, now at maximum dose of diazepam, so it might take some time, but I have more than 2 months left before I see my dr. again. I want to be only on diazepam before it, or to use other words, I have to. It shouldn't be a problem.

 

Soon time for my workout, but at first I need my morning coffee 

 

Thanks firefly, wish you all the best 

sounds good

 

& ditto ace 

 

enjoy your workout 

Today it's my 3rd day at .5mg klonopin, 20mg valium per day. I went down from 25mg of valium, because I just felt like I can do it. Diazepam keeps me steady a long time. Slept 8 hours without interruptions, and it's 23 hours since last klonopin. I had the hangover feeling yesterday after 19hours without klonopin, now I'm just starting to feel it, so I'm moving into right direction. So now I'm at the half way down from 3mg klonopin, if assuming that 20mg of diazepam is equivalent to 1mg of clonazepam. All in 3 weeks and 2 days. And I feel good! I'm going to stay at this level for a full week at least, because I've went down so fast, and I go for a vacation with my family next week. Better not to be in withdrawals then. But, I might cut .25mg from klonopin and add 5mg valium to make it even.

Sounds like you know what you're doing and listening to your body well.

I agree...do a hold for a family vacation - i'm trying to organize my own schedule as such.

I know there's that feeling if you're doing well, why not do more - but sometimes that backfires.

I think you're doing well from what you say - if you are feeling great - there's not more you can ask for! .

 

Tell me though..re: sleeping on valium.  Does it help? Did you sleep with clonazepam? or is this new?

 

I'm not looking at a cross over just yet but its might happen near the end of the ativan/zopiclone taper - and sleep is my biggest issue so i just like hearing others experiences  

 

oh - and have fun on your vacation!

Klonopin made me not only so depressed, but I also frequently had nights when I woke up in the middle of the night, and couldn't sleep after that. It's the diazepam that gives me good steady sleep, for sure. Even in the middle of the withdrawal! After I get rid of this klonopin crap I will slow down the w/d, I know that it's much harder to go down from 1,5mg to 0mg than it has been from 3mg to this point, luckily I wasn't on it so long, and like I figured out and hoped, it seems like this quicker cross-over works for me. It has been even much easier and faster than I hoped, but now it's time to slow down. I just cannot wait that I'm off of klonopin. Thanks firefly 

interesting ..i had a 10 day trial of clonazepam and i got SEVERELY depressed as well. (and wasn't sleeping either!!!! never mind i lost my appetite and felt sick all the time and my brain turned to sludge..i hated it)

someone here mentioned valium can be a bit depressing to some as well so i was concerned

but you aren't feeling depressed on it? that's good to hear

 

Klonopin made me so depressed that I was having suicidal thoughts, and after another night of staying awake from middle of the night (despite taking mirtazapine), I had to take a quick visit to my dr in that very day, and said to her that I want to drop the klonopin, because of the side effects. I didn't mention that a deep depression with suicidal thoughts was the side effect..

 

At first I was a bit scared how I respond to diazepam, and it took a while to be familiar with it, but after about a week it's effect was more stable and I didn't have had any sleeping problems since starting the cross-over. You just need to listen to your body, and the doctor, of course... A slower cross-over is a better option, but the situation I was in was that like I already had no other way than going up, from a deep hole thanks to klonopin. I desperately needed the quicker cross-over.

Totally understand. 

So valium didn't make you depressed?

how was it 'different'? you said it took a while to get familiar with it...any way to explain more specifically or just that it 'felt' differently internally?

were you taking clonazepam for anxiety or for sleep?

sorry..i forget. I know clonazepam wasn't working for you for sleep but did you have sleep issues before?

And do you find your head 'foggy' or 'less clear' since it's such a long acting drug? (granted so is clonazepam and i hated that part of it too)

Just curious - that's one thing that's preventing me from thinking of crossing over - i don't want to feel foggy headed all day - i like the part of my day when my head feels the clearest (because i'm on ativan (and zopiclone) but both are shorter acting)

anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences

and hope your day goes well!

Well firefly, valium is also a depressant, you know, and it can cause some kind of depression too, but at least for now it's a lot more stable than klonopin was. In the first week I noticed it's effect a bit more in 1 hour after taking the dose, now it's more stable. I think of it, as an highly sensitive person, that it makes me more like a normal human being. And when a guy like me is in withdrawal, I desperately need to be more stable between doses... I take it for my anxiety and panick attacks, with social phobia, a long list    I already gave up my experiment to be only at 20mg of diazepam, and went back to 25mg. But since I had a few 30mg days in there I'm now right at 25mg daily on average, for the last 11 days. Today was just a bit too hard, and long..so took 15mg a while ago. Good night for now!

All righty, I gave up with my experiment. I knew that I was stretching it, and now I know that I have to back off a bit. I was 6 days at .5mg of clonazepam and still feeling pain in my face occasionally, with an occasional waves of deep w/d depression and quick mood swings. But at least now I know my limits and I have the chance to go back and let the dust settle. I'm planning to take .75mg clonazepam daily for a while now, and keep the diazepam at 25mg. This is because I know that these symptoms are a result of making too large cuts from clonazepam. I need to stabilize for now and give more time to my body to adapt. In another words, to make a smoother cross-over.

 

Apparently the diazepam wasn't that strong for me after all, it was the cumulated clonazepam which kept me surprisingly stable for a few days, in the past couple of days I've felt the effect from both much shorter, so clearly a sign that I rushed things too much. Also my sleeping hasn´t been that good anymore, although not too bad, but anyways.

 

I just wonder would I be even alive if I would've listened to my dr. and stopped taking klonopin c/t.  It's scary when we have to rely into this kind of "specialists".

I was just thinking - you should start a blog - you're basically blogging here but did anyone tell you about the "Buddie Blogs"?

You'd probably get a lot more traffic and lot more input from others - especially others who are more familiar with what your'e doing.

just a suggestion -i'm no expert here but one of the mods can help out - also the blogs are not public - only members can view them.

 

otherwise - glad to hear you're stable or stabilizing - bouncing around dosages can be more trouble than it's worth and i get the rush to taper - i do..i want to speed this up every damn day!!!  but i keep reminding myself staying stable and being patient will pay off.

 

you should start a blog - maybe the mods can move all this into a blog - you should ask..i'm not savvy with computers but i'm sure they can figure something out - or you can start over there

 

and i hear ya on the "specialists" - i've had some really bad advice myself ..and from what i hear here on BB - it's just scary...try not to focus on that though - there is great support here and you're obviously doing your 'homework' and it will happen - maybe not as fat as we all want <sigh> ..but it will

 

 

I was just thinking - you should start a blog - you're basically blogging here but did anyone tell you about the "Buddie Blogs"?

 

I haven't heard about the blogs, I keep it in my mind. But I doubt that I would be a good blogger because my writing is quite slow and my vocabulary is quite limited... Probably I won't update here as often in the future, as I have done, but let's see. I'm just a bit disappointed right now even though I've managed to go down so quickly on the clonazepam. I just wanted to believe that with diazepam I would've already been able to stay at that .5mg per day. But, now I know that even with the diazepam, it will not be easy. The last 1mg or .75mg or whatever is still hard to drop, after being on clonazepam so long. 

 

Firefly, thank you so much again.

Hi

the very end i think is the hardest... in the past i took longer for each cut near the end and drew it out to tiny amounts but some people just jump.

and you don't have to think of blogs as a big long thing - some people don't write but one sentence and not every day...it's the same as what you're doing her e- just keep track of what's going on with you and how things are going...and your english if perfect...i haven't noticed anything - i can't tell it's not your first language

look down the home page and see "buddy blogs" and you can see what people are doing. Some blogs are more like chat rooms lol and some are just a sentence or two about what they did that day or what's going on..

there's something else that you can to list your own progress and chart stuff but it's not interactive. i haven't done either so i am not the best person to ask.

but check out the 'buddy blogs"

anyway..just have patience. let your body get used to this dosage. We all want to rush but the body needs time to adapt. both to the change in the type of drug and the amount of drug etc. the body needs time that's all.  (i am like you though - i want it over now and faster lol - i think we all do )

 

anyway..hope your day is good

(are you sleeping on the valium? that's my fear)

 

Hi firefly

 

I woke up at 3 am today or shall I say tonight...so the diazepam, in my CURRENT SITUATION, isn't giving the full nights sleep anymore...I slept only about 5hours. But without the diazepam I wouldn't have been able to fall asleep at all. But, remember that I was stupid when I skipped not only the 1.5mg klonopin with 25mg valium-stage from the Ashton's manual, I tried to almost (was on it only 5 days) skip the 1mg klonopin w/ 30mg diazepam stage as well, and to finish my stupidity, I even tried to cut the valium from 25mg to 20mg for a couple of days, because "I felt like I can", even though I should've INCREASE my diazepam dosage! Try not his at home, or at anywhere, all I can say for now that I learned a lot. I never anymore will skip the stages from the Ashton's manual, it's my bible from now on.

So you have to keep in mind that no wonder why my sleep was interrupted, despite the diazepam (which I hoped to be the miracle drug for me, and that it would allow me to skip the stages of the Manual...)

 

I'm at the point now that I will go to the stage I skipped at first, and take 1.5mg klonopin with 25mg valium for a while, until I am sure that I can go down again, this time safely. And I will make everything by the Manual from now on.

 

I'm planning to take a bit more (like 2 mg) klonopin today, to stop this pain in my face and all the miserable feelings I have practically constantly, despite the diazepam. This is also in order to "correct" the lack of klonopin in my system as soon as possible, and then start the stage which consists 3x .5mg klonopin daily, with the diazepam. It's only 14 days since I dropped from 2mg klonopin to only 1mg daily for a couple of days, and I then made another cut again! I was delusional and counted too much on the diazepam. I just have to go by the manual, I learned it by the hard way. I hope this won't make anything bad to my withdrawal process...?

 

Any opinions and suggestions are more than welcome, from all of you Buddies out there. Is this a good plan (to go up in the dose of klonopin, to the stage that I skipped; 1.5mg K, 25mg V)? Or should I stay at 1mg with 30mg valium and just wait for a longer time, all the while HOPING that this will correct the lack of klonopin in my system. At this point I just don't feel (anymore..) that taking 2x .5mg of klonopin won't make me stable, at least in a LONG TIME.

 

THANK YOU firefly, and please feel free to say it to me if you, or anyone else, notice that I try a way too rapid cross-over again!

 

PS. I won't update my dose regime until I'm 100% sure what to do for now 

 

 

Hi

i really hope someone else comes by and comments.  This is a bit over my head to comment on your plan.  I *think* you're safe to restart as you plan to - you did everything so fast that i don't think you will mess up your tapering or have more withdrawals.  But I'm really not an expert by any means and i do hope someone else notices and/or maybe you should try to post a second thread asking the same question but simplify the information (I think we all here have what i call "benzo brain" and are a bit limited in how much we can read at a time hehe ...

can't hurt to double-post and ask directly for advice in the 'general taper plans' section

sometimes this place is quiet and sometimes it just takes rewriting a question to get an answer - i did it once or twice too

Give it a shot ..maybe it will work - (I know there ARE people here who know a LOT more than me and maybe the right post will grab their attention

and i'll keep my eye out for it too hehe

Thanks for a QUICK response, I'll do that, I start a new thread right now...but I'm following and updating this thread too of course!

 

Ace

Thanks for a QUICK response, I'll do that, I start a new thread right now...but I'm following and updating this thread too of course!

 

Ace

 

no problem

 

and maybe ask a moderator if you can put it into a blog  - why not? (i mean this entire thread) - it still shows up on the unread posts listing just a different section and maybe you'll get more traffic.