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I started a microtaper in July at less than 5% a month and things have just gotten absolutely unbearable. I wake up everyday with the urge to call an ambulance as I feel like I'm either going to die or go insane. Today I was so disconnected from and the world and my CNS felt so messed up like I could barely move my legs or my back. Doing a microtaper from a place of instability seems impossible but I don't know if reaching stability is even an option for me at this point or how I would even try. I have a failed taper from last year which resulted in an updose and subsequent reinstatement as well as a failed Valium crossover and I just feel like all of that change has made it so that tapering is impossible even at as slow of a rate as I possibly can but also that any type of hold does not guarantee anything either. I feel like I'm reaching a breaking point and I'm scared out of my mind. I spent the whole day today under the covers repeating "I am safe, my body and mind are healing" over and over to myself because I was petrified to do anything else. I don't understand why updoses/reinstatements stabilize some and for others like myself they are a complete disaster no do I know what people in that situation do to try and stabilize.
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I'm so sorry you're suffering. Microtapering didnt work for me. It felt like death by a thousand cuts. What happened with the Valium? It may be easier to stabilize on a longer acting benzo before you resume cutting.
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Crossing over to Valium was a complete disaster. I did not know that it took 10-14 days for the Valium to "catch up" to the Klonopin cut that it was replacing so by day 3 of substituting 10 mg's of Valium for .5 mg's of Klonopin I was basically psychotic. That's way too large of a cut for me to handle. I also tried .25 for 5 mg's and I think even .125 for .25 and did not have any success. Also my prescriber doesn't believe in the Ashton Manual and wouldn't give me proper equivalency and I haven't met a prescriber in five yours who would.  I wish I never touched Valium that was just another shock to my CNS that it couldn't take. Klonopin is plenty long lasting too, I think Valium is more helpful for people on Xanax or Ativan although obviously everyone is different.

 

It just seems like there are some out there who would have me believe that the moment I updosed and reinstated I basically resigned myself to this torture for the rest of my time on benzos when the advice that I was being given was to updose and get stability for a longer, smoother taper. That did not happen and now I'm 100 times worse and don't have a clue what to do.

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After I updosed the first time I never did get stable. The only thing that helped was to make another cut but it sounds like your w/d symptoms are worse than mine were at the time. Hopefully someone who has been in your situation will comment. Sorry I can't be of any help. Hang in there. I hope you get some relief soon.
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Thanks. I mean I'm cutting at such a small percentage I can't believe it's taking the toll on my mind on my body that it is but I feel worse than I ever have during this whole ordeal.
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I wonder if you are in tolerance withdrawal? I hit tolerance on Valium and man, I felt every little cut whether it was a .25 or .5mg. Only way I started feeling better was lowering my dose. My biggest fear was always "losing control" like what you talk about or having a panic attack in public. 90 percent of mine was/is mental although on occasion last winter I went to bed thinking I had caught the flu with a terrible body ache but after about 24 hours I realized it was benzo flu, something I learned to recognize.

 

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I mean I think I was in tolerance withdrawal for a long time, years even, before I started my first taper since the dosages stopped having any positive impact and while it was far from easy it was not THIS. And I made progress with that taper too going from 2.5 mg's of Klonopin to 1.5 from February of last yeah til November. But now anytime I try to cut even .001 g's off of .5 mg's I can barely eat or bathe myself. This is completely unbearable but it's not like I can make bigger cuts or cold turkey or anything so I guess my only options are to hold (which doesn't guarantee anything) or tapering very, very slowly. If my whole taper is going to be this bad I won't see the end of it. I'm already down to 107 lbs from 165. I feel like that reinstatement was the worst decision I could have possibly made.
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yeah. It sounds like you need to get stabile before you try cutting anymore. You just can't lose anymore weight. I know not everyone is for adding anything to the mix but have you considered anything like remeron to help with your appetite? Guessing your sleep isn't good either.

I am sorry things are so rough for you.

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Thanks. Yeah my sleep is bad but I've heard a lot of pretty gnarly stories about Remeron too so I don't know about adding another med into the mix at this point. None of them have ever helped.
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Thanks. Yeah my sleep is bad but I've heard a lot of pretty gnarly stories about Remeron too so I don't know about adding another med into the mix at this point. None of them have ever helped.

 

Perhaps, it may be best to forget about tapering for about of week or two, and put it on a back burner during that time. Truthfully, it may as well be that your body is healing from the valium substitution attempt. If you can find if there's any sort of food you can actually tolerate better and somehow manage to gain some weight and let your brain recover from a valium c/o attempt, you may actually be able to pull off the direct Klonopin taper later on.

 

Also, any issues with blood pressure/heart rate or anything of that sort. When you get the urge to call 911, are your vitals good or is your Blood Pressure getting too high/too low? Any tachycardia of any kind? Stomach problems? Is the panic you're feeling more related to the muscular tension or chemical anxiety or both?

 

I actually ended up gaining weight when starting an ativan to valium crossover. I have no idea if valium was an apetite stimulant for me, or if the drop in ativan levels made me a nervous eater, or if my metabolism slowed because of these pills, or if it was all of it combined. After a while, I gained a ton of weight. It wasn't after this little drop in Valium that my weight started going down a bit.

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The urge to call 911 comes from a combination of the fact that I'm dizzy as hell and am going to faint and also I'm so depersonalized that I don't feel connected to my limbs and on top of that I'm anxious to the point of bordering on mania of an overwhelming sense that something terrible is going to happen.
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That feeling of dread or feeling like something bad is going to happen is something I experienced in my first taper. It is very scary when you're in the middle of it. The best thing you can do is try to distract yourself. Anything to try to break the cycle of anxious thoughts. Just look at how strong you are, you feel so bad yet you're still plugging away. Hang in there. It won't be like this forever.
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Thanks, I appreciate it. The sensitivity to light making watching TV/movies difficult and the exercise intolerance taking away yoga has added to the problem so much. I virtually have no distractions now aside from podcasts and talking to friends through group chat (which lately for some reason has also been difficult because the fear is just so all consuming).
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The urge to call 911 comes from a combination of the fact that I'm dizzy as hell and am going to faint and also I'm so depersonalized that I don't feel connected to my limbs and on top of that I'm anxious to the point of bordering on mania of an overwhelming sense that something terrible is going to happen.

 

Fuzzy,

 

I was tapering Valium and doing fine when my doctor told me to go from 5 mgs to 2.  At that time I also felt very disconnected to my limbs. I had all of the symptoms you have. I only weighed 90 to begin with and I went down to 75 lbs. I didn't know at the time why I was so sick. I was hospitalized and they told me if I lost any more weight I would be in real trouble.  I told them I was tapering Valium but they didn't connect it.

 

What got me better was going home from the hospital.  I did not taper anymore.  I held until I felt better. I ate as clean as possible and I just relaxed as much as possible. No stress.  Stress makes things worse. Drinking Ensure made me worse. I stayed away from all supplements. Just give it time without changing anything and know that you will get better. Just listen to quiet music or something like that. Sitting outside helped me also.  In that shape it's hard to distract yourself, but little by little it will get better.

 

Time heals. It took four to six months for me.

 

Jenny

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I am so sorry for your misery FuzzyDunlop. Everyone has given good input and unfortunately

all of us have learned that "the only way out is through' this horrible ordeal. 

 

Do you like listening to audio books? I found that was a great way to distract myself when I was tapering

and feeling no relief. Sometimes I would sit in a warm bath with Epsom salts and lavender and listen to books.

I also started crocheting a lot. Any repetitive thing you can do with your hands might be a distraction.

 

Is your doctor overseeing this? Would he/she help you with a direct taper from the Klonopin?

 

I hope you are able to get some relief soon. Please know that many people have gone through this and come

out the other side mentally and emotionally whole with much better perspective. Once you get through

this nothing will 'rattle your cage again.' You are stronger than you think.

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Thank you. My psychiatrist is on board but his definition of "slow" is not "extremely slow, based on symptoms" as he is not benzo wise. But he does listen to me and believe me about benzos which is a first in five years of looking for a benzo wise prescriber so it could be a lot worse.

 

I do like listening to audio books however they're so long that I find it difficult to lay down and listen to an entire book. That could be because I got the entire Stephen King collection as well as Game of Thrones and a lot of those are just long anyway but it's hard for me to just lay there and listen without feeling compelled to do something else (I've tried crosswords and coloring but that doesn't do much for me). So I've more so gotten into a lot of different podcasts. I just wish I could comfortably watch TV again especially when the Patriots and the Celtics start up again.

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I do like listening to audio books however they're so long that I find it difficult to lay down and listen to an entire book. That could be because I got the entire Stephen King collection as well as Game of Thrones and a lot of those are just long anyway but it's hard for me to just lay there and listen without feeling compelled to do something else (I've tried crosswords and coloring but that doesn't do much for me). So I've more so gotten into a lot of different podcasts. I just wish I could comfortably watch TV again especially when the Patriots and the Celtics start up again.

 

How about writing?

 

That's what I did when stuck with tolerance and in something that sounds very similar to your OP.

 

I mean pen and paper. Let it all out. Build a record. Experiment. That sorta thing.

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I keep a journal. Haha I have like five notebooks filled since this whole nightmare has started. But I could write more about actual experiences in the moment.
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I keep a journal. Haha I have like five notebooks filled since this whole nightmare has started. But I could write more about actual experiences in the moment.

 

Only five!? ;)  :laugh: :laugh:

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I'm sorry you are suffering. You are not alone. I have become completely agoraphobic and can't drive, much less have a life worth a crap. I was working out five days a week and keeping the roads hot on the weekends. I had ants in my pants before this taper. Now I'm scared all of the time, I cry every morning when my husband goes to work. I don't even recognize myself right now. I find joy in nothing. I feel like I'm going to lose my mind at any moment, or worse. I've already made my peace with God. I'm still a young women, and this It's not normal behavior for me AT ALL. These pills are manufactured in Hell. I know they ppl do heal and we will too. Unfortunately it's going to take time. I understand your pain. Hang in there however you need to and keep posting on here for support. Sending hugs.
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Me too! I had an active social life, worked out 4-5 times a week and loved being outside. I've lost interest in all of my passions. I'm only 31 and all of my friends are getting married, having kids and advancing in their careers while I'm petrified to even go outside (lately to even go downstairs in my own house!). I feel like I'm on the brink of losing my sanity at all times. I used to drive to and from school which was 45 minutes away at least one every few months and enjoy the ride because it gave me time to think and listen to music. I drove to New Jersey and back to Boston when I was with my ex. Now I can't drive out of my driveway. It's actually amazing what happens to the brain. I'd marvel at it if it wasn't so endlessly frustrating. I know I should just accept where I'm at, but it's hard to accept *this*. I hate being so sedentary, I need to stay active.
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Me too! I had an active social life, worked out 4-5 times a week and loved being outside. I've lost interest in all of my passions. I'm only 31 and all of my friends are getting married, having kids and advancing in their careers while I'm petrified to even go outside (lately to even go downstairs in my own house!). I feel like I'm on the brink of losing my sanity at all times. I used to drive to and from school which was 45 minutes away at least one every few months and enjoy the ride because it gave me time to think and listen to music. I drove to New Jersey and back to Boston when I was with my ex. Now I can't drive out of my driveway. It's actually amazing what happens to the brain. I'd marvel at it if it wasn't so endlessly frustrating. I know I should just accept where I'm at, but it's hard to accept *this*. I hate being so sedentary, I need to stay active.

 

So sorry about this, FuzzyDunlop. When I was 31, I twisted my ankle and broke a metatarsal in my foot. It took about 6 weeks of being in a cast and then 2 weeks of walking with a boot. Since I couldn't drive until my leg healed, I would connect to my work computer via VPN connection, and would have my co-worker give me rides when I had to be in the office. I didn't lose any time off work and the neighborhood grocery store was still open and they'd deliver groceries. I felt depressed that I was in a cast, on crutches, felt blue and listened to depressing music, but as soon as I got better, I was so happy to have my life back. The entire recovery lasted about 10 weeks total. Two and a half years ago, I left work with heart palps, tachycardia, complete lack of focus and barely managed to get home. 2 and a half years later, I still have ways to go.

 

Not to downplay physical injuries, as people can get some severe ones, but I technically got way more compassion from everyone at work and people I had in my life back then, than I got for this. Plus, the entire recovery lasted 10 weeks!!

 

It still amazes me how much stigma there is out there, and it also amazes me how that suffering with a broken bone and a cast (no pain meds needed) was a joke compared to this psycho-physiological torment. I just can't believe it. 

 

Keep posting FuzzyDunlop and lets hope for the best.

 

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Hi FuzzyDunlop, I am in the same situation as you. Can't stabilize, feel extremely ill, can't do much, I'm housebound and mostly bedbound. I can't watch TV, listen to music or audiobooks. I can read a bit, with breaks. I'm scared of moving forward with my taper, as I don't know what sxs the next cut will bring, but I also know that my body won't do better until I am free, as I've hit tolerance withdrawal and in this case, updosing won't do much, as you yourself have said. From the Ashton manual: "When you reach tolerance, your brain needs more of the drug to stimulate the activity of GABA, and you begin to experience withdrawal symptoms. Some people find that no matter how much they increase their dose, they are unable to obtain complete relief. This may be caused by a fast, upward tolerance spiral, or by toxicity. Complete withdrawal is necessary where this occurs."

 

I am trying to do a direct taper from a short acting benzo, as I feel the idea of doing a Valium crossover problematic on some accounts. Your experience only adds to my fears.

 

What I found helps me, is letting everything go, trying to relax as much as I possibly can into it. I just sit on the bed, and relax into my sxs, give in to them, let the storm pass over me. I remind myself to do this over and over again, every minute of every hour. I also do my best not to think about the future, just to live in the moment, live for this breath. I also do slow deep breathing and move around my room when I get too anxious and agitated. Always keeping in mind to relax.

 

I've read somewhere that the mind becomes better at what you do often. So I'm doing some aggressive relaxing!  :) I'm sending some healing vibes your way! Love and kisses, xoxo

 

 

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[a2...]
Thank you, I think that's really good advice. That quote from the Ashton Manual has me thinking though...do you think we've reached toxicity? Is that the same as a paradoxical reaction? Updosing/reinstating may work for some but it was a horrible decision for me and then after the failed Valium crossover I've just been a complete wreck. Trying to take it a breath at a time but it's hard not to look ahead at the prosect of facing a long microtaper in this condition. Also when she says "complete withdrawal is necessary when this happens" she still means at a slow paced taper, right?
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