Finasteride during withdrawal

Does anyone know if there is a problem with using finasteride (Propecia, Proscar) during benzo w/d?

I have takien it for hair loss for several years before Ambien w/d began and dont want to stop it

unless there is a known negative interaction, as more hair loss at this time could increase depressive

symptoms.  Thanks for any input!

Rob

I am in the same boat and was shocked when I read these:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19655698

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19229376

 

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668

 

Propecia/Finasteride/Proscar definitely has an inhibiting effect of neurosteroids that directly act on the GABA-A benzodiazepine receptors.  I recently doubled my dose of Propecia and have experienced a severe and long-term setback that I am trying to make sense of.  I am beginning to believe that this is the culprit.  I am going to stop taking the medication and see what happens.  I guess I'll have to then deal with my anxiety and depression about my hair falling out. 

ryan - thanks for posting this data.  i have been taking finasteride for many years.  i asked my pdoc, psy and nuerologist if it could have anything to do with my withdrawals from Ativan.  they of course all said no.  i will need to read these posts and then come back to comment more. 

 

you say you doubled your dose of propecia - i assume that means you are taking 2mg? 

 

will you PLEASE let us know if your stopping the propecia has any affect on the way you feel. 

rhino -

 

The doc who prescribed the propecia told me to buy the generic finasteride (5 mg) online and that it would be safe and more effective than the lower dose propecia.  I have been taking half of one (2.5 mg) for over 10 years and about a month ago I started taking a whole pill (5 mg).  Since around that time, I have experienced a very major step backward - not a "flare up" but a continuous decline and several new symptoms have come on.  I am not definitively blaming the finasteride, but something feels very wrong to me and this is the only change in my regimen. 

 

When I read those articles, I was shocked to discover that finasteride has a major impact on neurosteroids that are needed to modulate GABA at the GABA-A benzodiazepine receptor.  If you read through those studies, there is even a quote about how injection of finasteride into mice, it caused symptoms similar to benzodiazepine and/or alcohol withdrawal!  I never had issues or noticeable side effects taking finasteride before this, but my theory is that I am just cutting off hormones that my brain really needs to complete this healing process.

 

I will let you know what happens over the next few days and weeks.  Today will be the first day in 12 years that I do not take finasteride.

 

-Ryan

ryan -

 

i have been doing the same as you.  got the 5mg tablets and broke them.  i only take 1.25mg. 

 

i did go a period not too long ago where i did not take for a week.  forgot it when i went on a trip.  durning that trip - i certainly did not feel any better.

 

i have been taking the finestride for about 10 years. 

 

i would very much like for us to keep in touch on this.

roman and ryan -

 

good news - i talked to my psy and he did not think there would be anything to worry about

 

bad news - i found a website called propeciahelp.com - looking on there will scare the hell out of you.  looks like they have similar problems to us.

Check this out.  This is a good summary of what I've been reading.  Got to minute 3:53.

 

I have continued my research and discussed this issue with my doctor (he said to stop taking the finasteride), but I am going to next speak to an endocrinologist.  As much as the thought of losing my hair makes me sick, there is no way to deny that this drug has to be slowing down the healing process.  The main issue is the restriction of allopregnanolone, which is a strong modulator of the GABA-A receptor.  However, I have discovered that you can purchase this neurohormone in supplement form and I am going to inquire about the possibility of replacing this hormone instead of stopping the finasteride completely.  As I understand it, the restriction of this hormone (and the other neurohormones) is a side effect of the drug and not beneficial for hair maintenance.  I will let you know what I find out from the docs.

 

-Ryan

One more thought - it seems that allopregnanalone is not required by the GABA-A receptor to function correctly, it's just a natural hormone that acts on the receptor like a benzo.  I never experienced anxiety or depression from this drug and the vast majority of men taking it do not.  For some men, this hormone may play a more important role.  It could also be that the lack of the hormone in our bodies due to the finasteride is making things harder on us.  It does make me wonder if this hormone could be a useful supplement during benzo withdrawal for men and women alike.  I will discuss with the endocrinologist and report back.

when are you going to see the endocrinologist?

I had my blood drawn this morning and the results will take about a week.  They are testing all of my hormones.  The option will then be to continue on the finasteride and take some allopregnanolane replacement or just stay off.  It would be interesting to hear from someone who has made a fully recovery while taking finasteride.

Hey rhino - could you call your psy and ask him or her about specifically the effect of suppressing these neurosteroids on the GABA receptors?  I think docs are inclined to just say it's safe if they have not heard otherwise.  I seriously doubt a psychiatrist would understand the pharmacological action of finasteride offhand.

ryan - my brain is so screwed im not sure i even understand your comment.

 

i can call and ask him whatever - but when i talked to him he had no clue that fin acted on the "gaba system" at all

Thx for all of these replies guys.  Wow, it looks like I have a few articles to study up on after the holiday is over as I am busy with family this weekend.

The news so far definitely is interesting and I am looking forward to hearing more about your endocrinology results.  I will briefly add that I did indeed stop finasteride 1 month ago.  Although I can report that some progress has been made, it is very slow and gradual.  No new sx's, and a few have gotten much better (sexual release no longer causes me to freak out anymore!).  I read that it takes a couple of weeks for finasteride to leave your body due to its half life, and about 1 month for its effects to clear.  A bit of good news is that I have not yet noticed any major shedding after stopping.  Stay in touch guys!

Rob

Thx for all of these replies guys.  Wow, it looks like I have a few articles to study up on after the holiday is over as I am busy with family this weekend.

The news so far definitely is interesting and I am looking forward to hearing more about your endocrinology results.  I will briefly add that I did indeed stop finasteride 1 month ago.  Although I can report that some progress has been made, it is very slow and gradual.  No new sx's, and a few have gotten much better (sexual release no longer causes me to freak out anymore!).  I read that it takes a couple of weeks for finasteride to leave your body due to its half life, and about 1 month for its effects to clear.  A bit of good news is that I have not yet noticed any major shedding after stopping.  Stay in touch guys!

Rob

 

Rob,

 

Did you quit the finasteride because of withdrawal?  Did your doctor recommend this?  Most docs seem to think it's not a problem but it seems like it could be.  I find it interesting that you are experiencing longer-term withdrawal from just Ambien.  I wonder if there could be a connection, such as a compromise of GABA-A receptor function from many years on the finasteride. 

 

-Ryan

Hey guys,

 

I am finding out that the hormone pregnenolone acts as a benzodiazepine antagonist in a similar way to flumazenil.  It has been suggested that both agents can be used to treat protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal, though I have only seen science on the flumazenil, not on the pregnenolone.  If this is true at all, then this may hold a big clue for us.  Finasteride suppressed pregnenolone, which may work to reset GABA receptors.  I have even seen a lot of folks online recommending those who take finasteride supplement with pregnenolone to offset some side effects even when not in benzodiazepine withdrawal. 

 

I have two choices now - stop taking finasteride and deal with a potential serious hair loss issue or take a small dose and supplement with pregnenolone.  Man, this is a nasty bump in the road I did not want to deal with.

 

-Ryan

i did a quick forum search for Pregnenolone.  below is a past of the only thing i found.  not posting it for any particular reason just sharing...

 

 

"Benzodiazepine antagonists of any kind while tapering is a *BIG* no-no.

 

Research has shown that benzodiazepine antagonists like Flumazenil and Pregnenolone can actually reverse some of the so-called "protracted withdrawal syndrome" side effects induced by long-term benzodiazepine use.

 

What's the catch?

 

The catch is you can ONLY use them when you have successfully tapered off of benzos and have been off of them for at least a few months.

 

If taken during tapering, these potent substances can send you into early withdrawal and in high enough doses, induce seizures!"

ryan and roman -

 

have either of of you spent any time on propeciahelp.com?  i want to but am a bit afraid of what i will find.  from what little i have read and seen - i cant decide if we are better off stopping the finasteride or staying on it.  seems like a lot of people have problems when they stop taking it.  i have not taken it the past two day and really cant decide what to do.  can either of you share your thoughts please?

 

also - both of you have been off benzos for much longer than me.  all 3 of us have very short tapers or cts.  we were all also on very low doses.  can you guys tell me what wds you are having at this point.  i was having 30+ wds but the main ones that still trouble me are: cog fog, blurry vision, dry mouth, anxiety (not too bad) and sleep (can fall asleep fine but cant sleep past 4-5AM).  curious to know what have troubled you in the past and what troubles you now.  thank you.

Hey there, wanted to add that I stopped fin based on my own decision.  Having some horrible w/d effects 7 months after stopping ambien demanded some drastic measures.  I have had no luck in tolerating any supplements so far, so stopping my only prescribed oral medication was a last resort for me.  I do however continue using Rogaine foam twice daily as stopping it for 2-3 months did for my progress.  I lost massive amounts of hair at about 5 months off Ambien and decided that if finasteride didn't prevent that loss, it must not be doing much for me anyway.  I will get more time to research your previously mentioned articles, Pregnenolone, etc.  The benzo antagonist warning that you quoted Rhino seemed a bit scary, but looks like none of us are tapering so it might be worth a trial with small doses. 

Rob

ryan and roman -

 

have either of of you spent any time on propeciahelp.com?  i want to but am a bit afraid of what i will find.  from what little i have read and seen - i cant decide if we are better off stopping the finasteride or staying on it.  seems like a lot of people have problems when they stop taking it.  i have not taken it the past two day and really cant decide what to do.  can either of you share your thoughts please?

 

also - both of you have been off benzos for much longer than me.  all 3 of us have very short tapers or cts.  we were all also on very low doses.  can you guys tell me what wds you are having at this point.  i was having 30+ wds but the main ones that still trouble me are: cog fog, blurry vision, dry mouth, anxiety (not too bad) and sleep (can fall asleep fine but cant sleep past 4-5AM).  curious to know what have troubled you in the past and what troubles you now.  thank you.

 

Hey Rob,

 

As for propeciahelp.com, there seems to definitely be a "post-finasteride syndrome," BUT this is when men who had bad side effects WHILE TAKING finasteride stop and the sides don't go away for many months or years.  The vast majority of men (myself included) have few or no side effects and things go back to normal within 30 days after stopping.  There is no "withdrawal syndrome" associated with finasteride, so put your mind at ease there.  Also remember that for any drug on the market, there is a group of people who claim horrible side effects and withdrawal so let's not get too freaked out here.  I am assuming that if any of us included in this discussion were having these terrible side effects, we would have already quit long ago.

 

To stop or not to stop is the question.  I have not taken it in three days and plan to stay off a few weeks.  I am told that once the stuff works its way out of my body (about 30 days given my long-term usage), any side effects that may have been present will disappear and all of the hair I would have lost over the past decade will begin to fall out.  This freaks me out completely, but I am going to try Nizoral 2% shampoo, minoxidil 15% (already using 5%), and possibly some saw palmetto and biotin.  I am waiting for the results of some hormone tests to see how depleted I actually am with these affected neurohormones and then will decide what to do.  I have seen a lot of advice online that says if you are going to take it a) supplement with pregnenolone to replace those hormones and b) find the lowest dose possible that works.  Some guys report that 1 mg every 3 days does as much as 5 mg daily, but I am skeptical of that.

 

My w/d's were numerous and intense, but I am currently still dealing with about a dozen symptoms that come and go.  The main ones bothering me most days are insomnia (can usually get to sleep but wake multiple times throughout the night), muscle twitches, inner trembling, heart palpitations, and minor tinnitus in my left ear.  The other ones that have faded but still come back occasionally are blurry vision, fatigue and body aches, breathlessness, itching, stomach problems, and anxiety/depression (which are probably caused by the rest of it). 

 

-Ryan

Hey there, wanted to add that I stopped fin based on my own decision.  Having some horrible w/d effects 7 months after stopping ambien demanded some drastic measures.  I have had no luck in tolerating any supplements so far, so stopping my only prescribed oral medication was a last resort for me.  I do however continue using Rogaine foam twice daily as stopping it for 2-3 months did for my progress.  I lost massive amounts of hair at about 5 months off Ambien and decided that if finasteride didn't prevent that loss, it must not be doing much for me anyway.  I will get more time to research your previously mentioned articles, Pregnenolone, etc.  The benzo antagonist warning that you quoted Rhino seemed a bit scary, but looks like none of us are tapering so it might be worth a trial with small doses. 

Rob

 

Make sure you understand the benzo antagonist issue.  People are still dependent on benzos have a very bad reaction to benzo antagonists.  People who are well off the drugs and experience protracted withdrawals are generally helped by them.  These agents "reset" brain receptors to normal sensitivity.  If you give flumazenil to someone who is currently taking benzos, they will have a seizure.  If you give it to someone in protracted withdrawal, their symptoms will mostly go away (at least for a short time period).  I suspect that pregnenolone may help our brains recover from benzos but we have been cutting it off with finasteride. 

Here is an excerpt from a related article regarding the benzo antagonist flumazenil:

 

"Flumazenil has shown evidence in animal studies of reverting receptor function (reversing tolerance) back to normal and preventing withdrawal symptoms and there is some evidence that this to occurs in humans.[8] However, we would like to advise against using this method as the results are unpredictable. We as an organisation know of people who have had their lives saved by using flumazenil such as cases where people have been acutely suicidal and possibly getting some psychotic phenomenon and getting other intolerable symptoms even on a stable dosage or during very slow tapering (such cases only occur in about 1% of people dependent on benzodiazepines and are not unique to benzodiazepines as chronic users/misusers of cannabis and alcohol can also induce a state of severe mental ill health from chronic stable intake of the addictive substance) and we know of people where the opposite occurred and the flumazenil procedure backfired and resulted in severe withdrawal and in at least one case suicide. So flumazenil is a big gamble and may backfire with severe consequences. Such extreme detox approaches are unpredictable and potentially dangerous and should only be considered as an absolute last resort and we urge people not to take such procedures and urge people to stick with a slow diazepam taper which does not have such serious and unpredictable outcomes. Making the wrong decision during benzodiazepine withdrawal may cost you your health or in severe cases even your life."

- The Benzo Withdrawal Guide              http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/withdrawal-guide.html

 

I suppose since I already stopped fin 1 month ago, my pregnenolone should start kicking in, therefore I will do without adding an antagonist supplement

for a few months and see how things progress.  I really do appreciate all of the research that you guys are doing as my original post remained unanswered for a few months and I was really at a loss with all of this.  Just knowing that there could be a finasteride link to my prolonged sx's is amazing.

 

We all 3 do have several similarities with w/d (small doses, short or no tapers, etc).  As for me, withdrawal has been mostly horrible.  I had no mental nor physical sx's prior to Ambien, which was prescribed by a sleep neurologist.  Once tolerance and w/d kicked in, I had a list of 30-some symptoms, the worst being unbelievable 24-hour anxiety and panic, which continues to affect me, but thankfully to a lesser degree over the past month or two.  I had an extreme fear of being alone for 6 months.  Agoraphobia, claustrophobia, depression, suic. thoughts,  palpitations, dizziness are now gone.  DP/DR, crying spells, inner vibrations, numbness, sex-intolerance are much improved.  Headaches, tinnitus, anxiety, exercise-intolerance, nap-intolerance, heat/UV exposure- intolerance remain.  Sorry for the long post guys, but I had a lot of ground to cover with answering previous posts

Peace,

Rob

Rob,

 

How does your hair look one month off?

 

-Ryan

dumb question - if fin blocks pregnenolone then if we stop taking it we should increase our level of this benzo antagonist.  based on the quote below - is that good?

 

 

"Benzodiazepine antagonists of any kind while tapering is a *BIG* no-no.

 

Research has shown that benzodiazepine antagonists like Flumazenil and Pregnenolone can actually reverse some of the so-called "protracted withdrawal syndrome" side effects induced by long-term benzodiazepine use.

 

What's the catch?

 

The catch is you can ONLY use them when you have successfully tapered off of benzos and have been off of them for at least a few months.

 

If taken during tapering, these potent substances can send you into early withdrawal and in high enough doses, induce seizures!"

wow - just took a shower.  only 4 days off fin but there sure seemed like when i washed my hair i had a lot of loose hairs on my hands???

 

i know it should not act or be that fast but - - -