Addiction/Dependence Discussion

To just finish what I was saying: addiction ´The fact or condition of being addicted to a particular substance or activity´

Addicted ´Physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance.´ Oxford dictionary. Regardless of the source, while ´dependence´ is too innocuous, ´addiction´ is associated with a particular pattern of thought, behavior and cravings. Not to mention that ´iatrogenic injury´ is even a different animal compared to either phrase.

In addition to the whole addiction/dependence/iatrogenic illness discussion, there is also another aspect.

Benzodiazepines are psychiatric drugs, so people who take them can be just as easily seen by an outside world and medical and mental health community as:

1) mentally ill (neurotic, psychotic, schizophrenic, bipolar, people with PTSD who need to be medicated continuously)

2) severely anxious/depressed people that need to be medicated for the rest of their life

3) people who were once functional and had a mental breakdown and need to be medicated from now on

4) crazy, hypochondriacs, neurotics....

5) Epileptics who need their medicines to function.

6) People with CNS injuries who need these medicines to function.

The mainstream narrative being: "If you are on psychiatric drugs of any kind, there's a good reason for you to stay on them"

Also, once you're off them and still non functional, there will be pressure to rejoin the society, and pressure to go back on the psychiatrics drugs if you're not able to manage without.

Hey guys please check out our FDA Medwatch initiative here for US citizens! Benzobuddies has collaborated with us to get this done!

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=183438.0

If any of you are US citizens, please pour a little of your time and energy into filling out an FDA Medwatch form. We have a chance to make a difference. Please click on the thread above or the link on the top right corner of the page.

Denying that benzos create physical craving in most people is simply addict shaming, FloridaGuy.  It's intolerance and approaches bigotry.  It shuts down conversation about benzos and is seen by many professionals and lay people as denial.

Would those be the same professionals who automatically blame a preexisting condition when benzos make patients sick?

Would those be the same professionals who deny that benzos can cause severe, debilitating issues more than 30 days after the last dose?

Would those be the same professionals who, when their patients ask them about the "addictive" potential of benzos, tell their patient "I'm not worried about that with you" (because you aren't escalating your dose like someone who is truly addicted would)?

Would those be the same professionals who cut off patients cold turkey when they start to get sick from the drugs they have taken exactly as prescribed?

I could go on all day long but I am going to save my breath. If you can't see why labeling all benzo patients as addicts can destroy or even end lives, there is nothing I can say to make you understand. I don't have the brain power to work out the reasons why some people insist on blurring this line but it is incredibly sad that anyone would continue to promote misinformation at the expense of people's lives.

For anyone who is interested in exploring this argument further, please read this amazing two part blog post that outlines the reasons why it is of life and death importance to separate addiction from whatever this is that plagues some unlucky people who take benzos. I have yet to hear anyone on the other side of the argument address any of these points let alone create a legitimate argument that backs up their opinions. "It's not fair to shame addicts" isn't an argument and I think the fact my words would elicit this kind of response despite the fact that I didn't in any way shame anyone speaks volumes.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/11/language-surrounding-benzodiazepines/

https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/11/language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-part-ii/

I don't want to take over this thread because I know it's about the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition but I thought it might be useful to share this from the National Institute on Drug Abuse on the subject of drug addiction versus dependence.

"...different parts of the brain are responsible for the addiction and dependence to heroin and opiates. Review the areas in the brain underlying the addiction to morphine (reward pathways) and those underlying the dependence to morphine (thalamus and brainstem). Thus, it is possible to be dependent on morphine, without being addicted to morphine. (Although, if one is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well). This is especially true for people being treated chronically with morphine, for example, pain associated with terminal cancer. They may be dependent - if the drug is stopped, they suffer a withdrawal syndrome. But, they are not compulsive users of morphine, and they are not addicted. Finally, people treated with morphine in the hospital for pain control after surgery are unlikely to become addicted; although they may feel some of the euphoria, the analgesic and sedating effects predominate. There is no compulsive use and the prescribed use is short lived."

Interestingly also from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (2012) - "...benzodiazepines cause addiction in a way similar to that of opioids, cannabinoids, and the club drug gamma-hydroxbutyrate (GBH)." They are trying to design a benzo to counteract anxiety without the risk of addiction. Good luck to them on that one. 

I am, in no way, wanting to shame anyone….just posting a PART of my painful story on this subject, and how the words used to describe people who are going through benzo w/d does matter.

In my case I took the Z-drug ambien for insomnia for a few years (I took it as prescribed, never abused it) and then suddenly I had a serious reaction to it. I ended up in a VA psychiatric facility.

The first Inpatient event, and the very first night being there, I was given Ativan (at the end of this entire benzo/Z-drug ordeal I had experienced 7-8 Psych facility Inpatient visits…a nightmare for sure).

I was grateful to be in a “safe” place now, as I was terrified with what was happening to me…I never thought twice about not taking this tiny white pill, called Ativan (I had no idea what Ativan was.… or for that matter, what a benzodiazepine even was!)

I left that facility with an ongoing Ativan prescription.

This little white pill called Ativan, helped with my horrific symptoms, that without my knowing it yet, Ambien was the actual cause of. I figured I would stop Ativan, once my throat stopped burning for good.

I had no clue that Ambien and Ativan were now going to both be involved in causing bizarre, and extremely painful symptoms.

The VA stopped prescribing both Ativan and Ambien eventually. I was navigated through a 2 week “taper” plan off of 1.5 mg Ativan. The doctor who started this “taper” process never breathed a word of the underlying mechanism of how this drug worked. I finally had the wits to do an Internet search….found the Ashton Manual within minutes, and only then understood what I was dealing with.

The things I was labeled and that ended up in my medical records during this ordeal include: 1) Your problem is you have a psychosomatic disorder. And (2) You are a “drug seeker.”

I admit, after I began Ativan, within a short time of taking it, I began “needing” this drug in order to combat the horrific symptoms it was causing.

I could go on…this is already too long a post. But in my case the words used to describe/label what these drugs have done to my brain is very important. Being labeled as a “drug seeker” and someone with a "psychosomatic disorder”, and knowing that these labels are now permanently placed in my medical charts, puts me in the frame of mind to correct the matter within the dictates of my conscience.

When a doctor or someone else within the medical community has the power to determine a patients' condition, and then with a stroke of a pen label that person with an inaccurate word/phrase/diagnoses etc….YES….language/words become critical. Words, that can carry more than one understanding NEED to be used with great care…..people’s lives can be ruined with very little effort.

Sorry to have diverted the OP's question.

I don't want to take over this thread because I know it's about the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition but I thought it might be useful to share this from the National Institute on Drug Abuse on the subject of drug addiction versus dependence.

 

"...different parts of the brain are responsible for the addiction and dependence to heroin and opiates. Review the areas in the brain underlying the addiction to morphine (reward pathways) and those underlying the dependence to morphine (thalamus and brainstem). Thus, it is possible to be dependent on morphine, without being addicted to morphine. (Although, if one is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well). This is especially true for people being treated chronically with morphine, for example, pain associated with terminal cancer. They may be dependent - if the drug is stopped, they suffer a withdrawal syndrome. But, they are not compulsive users of morphine, and they are not addicted. Finally, people treated with morphine in the hospital for pain control after surgery are unlikely to become addicted; although they may feel some of the euphoria, the analgesic and sedating effects predominate. There is no compulsive use and the prescribed use is short lived."

 

Interestingly also from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (2012) - "...benzodiazepines cause addiction in a way similar to that of opioids, cannabinoids, and the club drug gamma-hydroxbutyrate (GBH)." They are trying to design a benzo to counteract anxiety without the risk of addiction. Good luck to them on that one.

this is a great post pris and kinda answers my question to FG. and sorry if i was the one to get us of track here but i only asked because i think it was brought up some pages back but when you go to a different thread about this subject please let me know where it will be because this is something on interest to me. you know, it's two very different drugs which act on two different parts of the brain.

i could also easily say that my father got "addicted" to having blood transfusions because somehow his body no longer could make his own blood and he needed those transfusions to survive. once he stopped all transfusions is when he passed and that only took a few days. anyway, what i'm saying is an "opiate addict" could have the same exact argument. they can't really function when their drug is taken away cold turkey or even while tapering as my brother is having problems. it seems as though the "damage" to the opiate receptor heals up a lot of faster than the damage to the GABA receptor. is it just the receptor? or is it the kind of drug? or both?

actually, let me rephrase my original statement to FG, i have had cravings for a benzo when the anxiety gets too much but it's a different craving because i know it's not going to get me high -- it will just help me feel normal. and i too don't like the many awful preconceptions that come along with benzo's for not to long ago i mentioned to my pdoc that i was 4 1/2 years at the time and still having some neurological issues and her answer to me was: "there is this addiction center i can send you to" and i was like "dude, did you hear me? i am over 4 years off the drug and having neurological issues still"-- obviously this drug is bad news! for some peeps.

anyway so let me know whoever starts another thread about this and where it will be?

If any of you are US citizens, please pour a little of your time and energy into filling out an FDA Medwatch form. We have a chance to make a difference. Please click on the thread above or the link on the top right corner of the page.

thank you Hope!

I admit, after I began Ativan, within a short time of taking it, I began “needing” this drug in order to combat the horrific symptoms it was causing.

yep, and this is what happens. and what happened to me in the process of all of this is a personality change too. while on the drugs and while in withdrawal. so anyone could say i was a drug addict and my personality showed it.

When a doctor or someone else within the medical community has the power to determine a patients' condition, and then with a stroke of a pen label that person with an inaccurate word/phrase/diagnoses etc….YES….language/words become critical. Words, that can carry more than one understanding NEED to be used with great care…..people’s lives can be ruined with very little effort.

Thanks so much for saying that, BlueRose. Also, when someone in a medical community/insurance company/local government has an ability to terminate your treatment as they seem fit, and your own life is contingent upon that treatment, it is one of the scariest things that can happen to a human being.

When a doctor or someone else within the medical community has the power to determine a patients' condition, and then with a stroke of a pen label that person with an inaccurate word/phrase/diagnoses etc….YES….language/words become critical. Words, that can carry more than one understanding NEED to be used with great care…..people’s lives can be ruined with very little effort.

 

Thanks so much for saying that, BlueRose. Also, when someone in a medical community/insurance company/local government has an ability to terminate your treatment as they seem fit, and your own life is contingent upon that treatment, it is one of the scariest things that can happen to a human being.

I know that my experience with the VA was like walking on egg shells and I knew I had to navigate the system with care or possibly be swallowed up by it. lol

I needed them…although no one seemed to know what my problem was. But then, I knew at the same time, that they had the power to do to me whatever they wished, and that was very intimidating and scary. Especially, since I was literally going out my mind by the time my brain was fried from these drugs. The whole trip was very strange…I did learn a lot about something I knew absolutely nothing about. It has been a real eye opener as to the many layers of things/issues that are related to this world wide travesty. It’s so sad.

And as I said, in my way too long post above, I did experience exactly what you’re saying…eventually the VA stopped prescribing both Ativan and Ambien at the same time. That forced situation almost caused me to become homeless….I was so weak and sick by the time they did this to me that I just wanted to die out on the streets from the elements. And I did come very close to that “wish” and that is no exaggeration. :'(

And as I said, in my way too long post above, I did experience exactly what you’re saying…eventually the VA stopped prescribing both Ativan and Ambien at the same time. That forced situation almost caused me to become homeless….I was so weak and sick by the time they did this to me that I just wanted to die out on the streets from the elements. And I did come very close to that “wish” and that is no exaggeration. :'(

Yes, for some of us, it's not just benzos talking, but it becomes an all too real possibility, and it takes every little inch of strength to prevent something like that from happening. Yes, I've heard this saying that went "you will not convince a private doctor that you're healthy, and you will not convince a state doctor that you're sick". I used to think of homeless people being on some hard core street drugs, but now I see how easy it is to descend from a steady FT job and a nearly six figure income to complete poverty after taking those pills. It's amazing what they can do to the brain and body .

It took years to get where I was career wise, and it got all obliterated by these tiny white pills. It sounds like something right out of Twilight Zone.

And as I said, in my way too long post above, I did experience exactly what you’re saying…eventually the VA stopped prescribing both Ativan and Ambien at the same time. That forced situation almost caused me to become homeless….I was so weak and sick by the time they did this to me that I just wanted to die out on the streets from the elements. And I did come very close to that “wish” and that is no exaggeration. :'(

 

Yes, for some of us, it's not just benzos talking, but it becomes an all to real possibility, and it takes every little inch of strength to prevent something like that from happening. Yes, I've heard this saying that went "you will not convince a private doctor that you're healthy, and you will not convince a state doctor that you're sick". I used to think of homeless people being on some hard core street drugs, but now I see how easy it is to descend from a steady FT job and a nearly six figure income to complete poverty after taking those pills. It's amazing what they can do to the brain and body

I too see homeless people in a different light after my experience with benzos/Z-drugs. During my last Psych Inpatient facility ordeal, I asked one of the workers there, what happens to these people when they are released? He said, they end up back where they came from...some from living on the streets.

That last Inpatient account was with a private hospital...not the VA thank goodness! It was by a miracle that I ended up at this final facility that ended my nightmare chase to get relief from an issue that was still an UNKNOWN (the unknown issue...the drugs were the complete problem and I needed to safely taper off of them....Professor Heather Ashton would soon come to my rescue )

The doctor who admitted me immediately stabilized my condition from the cold turkey state that the VA had foisted upon me and that I was now at six weeks into . I did have extra Ambien...so I never was without it, accept for when the VA abruptly stopped it at one of their facilities for about one week (I did not sleep that entire time). By the way that particular VA facility that was instrumental in putting me through a C/T, also threatened to put a straight jacket on me. For what...I can't even remember. 

The only thing I can say for the VA that's positive as regards this whole ordeal, is that they paid the bill for the two weeks that I managed to get at this private hospital/psych facility. It was not cheap...and I am pretty certain that the only reason this private facility allowed me to be admitted is, because the admitting doctor had called the local VA Hospital and was, no doubt, assured that the VA would pay for my Inpatient time there. It cost around $10,000.00. I still have the bill...the VA sent me a copy. I am grateful they paid for it...but all of this could have been avoided, only if the doctors I had been seeing all over the map recognized early in this benzo ordeal that the drugs were the problem, and that they NEEDED to SAFELY allow me to taper off them. What is so difficult about this process??

I'm still suffering from what happened...if I had tapered safely in the beginning I might not be in the shape I'm in this far out from taking these two drugs Ativan and Ambien and cold turkied off Ativan for those nightmarish six weeks. Rant, over. lol

just wanted to say one last thing about this whole addiction/dependence thing.

i think that just in the same way they say alcoholism is a disease, i think both addiction and dependency is an illness and should be treated as such. but i don't even think the detox facilities treat us that way. you can feel it when you're in a place like that. i should know -- i've been in about 20 of them. they do not treat you like you have an illness.

I think it is interesting to note that it isn't just GABA that is involved in the mechanism of benzodiazepine addiction but also the effects on dopamine levels.

                                            Mechanism of Benzodiazepine Addiction (National Institute on Drug Addiction)

"Both inhibitory interneurons (labelled GABA) and dopaminergic neurons (labelled DA) are subject to the restraining influence of the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA. A key difference, however, is that GABA influences the inhibitory interneurons largely via the alpha-1-subset of GABAA receptors and the dopaminergic neurons largely via the alpha-3 subtype. Benzodiazepines currently on the market do not interact strongly with alpha-3 GABAA receptors on dopaminergic neurons and so have no direct impact on dopamine release. However, the drugs do interact strongly with alpha-1 GABAA receptors, thereby curtailing inhibitory interneurons' release of GABA into synapses with dopaminergic neurons. The net result is a lessening of GABA restraint on the dopaminergic neurons and an increase in dopamine release."

How this ties in with reward pathways.  "The pleasurable sensations that make addictive drugs disastrously attractive for vulnerable individuals occur when dopamine levels in the brain's reward area abruptly surge. Researchers had worked out how most addictive drugs, but not benzodiazepines, precipitate these surges. Dr Luscher and colleagues have now demonstrated that benzodiazepines weaken the influence of a group of cells, called inhibitory interneurons, in the brain's ventral tegmental area (VTA). These neurons normally help prevent excessive dopamine levels by down regulating the firing rates of dopamine-producing neurons. Two negatives make a positive, so when benzodiazepines limit the interneurons' restraining influence, the dopamine-producing neurons release more dopamine."  (Dr Christian Luscher and colleagues at the University of Geneva)

The results are potentially long-lasting.  "Even if you clear the drug from the body, there are long-lasting changes in brain architecture." And, "Dopamine surges are transient events, but addictive drugs cause long-lasting changes in the reward system."

I think BlueRose has a point how many of us go to our doctors seeking to be made addicted to benzodiazepines when usually all you want is some kind of relief from anxiety or insomnia. Some people are stuck on these drugs because they have been prescribed them for something other than anxiety. How many recreational drug users stop and think about the dangers of dependence and addiction. I never got any kind of pleasure in taking Valium. People who abuse benzos are taking ginormous quantities of the drug far surpassing what any of us take on here. They usually take different kinds of benzodiazepines altogether and often mixed with other drugs like opioids and alcohol. They are obviously deriving something from their drug taking that I did not by following the advice of my doctor. That's why I think the different definitions of dependence and addiction are still important. 

I am, in no way, wanting to shame anyone….just posting a PART of my painful story on this subject, and how the words used to describe people who are going through benzo w/d does matter.

 

In my case I took the Z-drug ambien for insomnia for a few years (I took it as prescribed, never abused it) and then suddenly I had a serious reaction to it. I ended up in a VA psychiatric facility.

 

The first Inpatient event, and the very first night being there, I was given Ativan (at the end of this entire benzo/Z-drug ordeal I had experienced 7-8 Psych facility Inpatient visits…a nightmare for sure).

 

I was grateful to be in a “safe” place now, as I was terrified with what was happening to me…I never thought twice about not taking this tiny white pill, called Ativan (I had no idea what Ativan was.… or for that matter, what a benzodiazepine even was!)

 

I left that facility with an ongoing Ativan prescription.

 

This little white pill called Ativan, helped with my horrific symptoms, that without my knowing it yet, Ambien was the actual cause of. I figured I would stop Ativan, once my throat stopped burning for good.

 

I had no clue that Ambien and Ativan were now going to both be involved in causing bizarre, and extremely painful symptoms.

 

The VA stopped prescribing both Ativan and Ambien eventually. I was navigated through a 2 week “taper” plan off of 1.5 mg Ativan. The doctor who started this “taper” process never breathed a word of the underlying mechanism of how this drug worked. I finally had the wits to do an Internet search….found the Ashton Manual within minutes, and only then understood what I was dealing with.

 

The things I was labeled and that ended up in my medical records during this ordeal include: 1) Your problem is you have a psychosomatic disorder. And (2) You are a “drug seeker.”

 

I admit, after I began Ativan, within a short time of taking it, I began “needing” this drug in order to combat the horrific symptoms it was causing.

 

I could go on…this is already too long a post. But in my case the words used to describe/label what these drugs have done to my brain is very important. Being labeled as a “drug seeker” and someone with a "psychosomatic disorder”, and knowing that these labels are now permanently placed in my medical charts, puts me in the frame of mind to correct the matter within the dictates of my conscience.

 

 

When a doctor or someone else within the medical community has the power to determine a patients' condition, and then with a stroke of a pen label that person with an inaccurate word/phrase/diagnoses etc….YES….language/words become critical. Words, that can carry more than one understanding NEED to be used with great care…..people’s lives can be ruined with very little effort.

 

Sorry to have diverted the OP's question.

Blue that's so sad, especially since you served our country and see what you got in return for that?

I never got any kind of pleasure in taking Valium. People who abuse benzos are taking ginormous quantities of the drug far surpassing what any of us take on here. They usually take different kinds of benzodiazepines altogether and often mixed with other drugs like opioids and alcohol. They are obviously deriving something from their drug taking that I did not by following the advice of my doctor. That's why I think the different definitions of dependence and addiction are still important. 

I have to wonder how many people who abused benzos abused them without any other drugs being involved. I would be willing to bet that in many abuse cases benzos were just an "adjunct" drug. I'm not talking about someone who is prescribed these drugs and has to escalate their dose to stave off symptoms, I am talking about people who use them recreationally, often without a prescription. If someone is simply shoveling down pills just to feel something other than reality and benzos are just one of the drugs in the mix it make them appear to be more "addictive" than they really are.

I never got any kind of pleasure in taking Valium. People who abuse benzos are taking ginormous quantities of the drug far surpassing what any of us take on here. They usually take different kinds of benzodiazepines altogether and often mixed with other drugs like opioids and alcohol. They are obviously deriving something from their drug taking that I did not by following the advice of my doctor. That's why I think the different definitions of dependence and addiction are still important. 

 

I have to wonder how many people who abused benzos abused them without any other drugs being involved. I would be willing to bet that in many abuse cases benzos were just an "adjunct" drug. I'm not talking about someone who is prescribed these drugs and has to escalate their dose to stave off symptoms, I am talking about people who use them recreationally, often without a prescription. If someone is simply shoveling down pills just to feel something other than reality and benzos are just one of the drugs in the mix it make them appear to be more "addictive" than they really are.

i watch this show on one of channels "Reelz" and the do all kinds of autopsy investigations of people like River Phoenix, Amy Winehouse, Michael Jackson, Corey Haim, Corey Monteith, Prince, Anna Nicole, John Belushi... the list goes on. every single one of these people had benzos in their mix -- but almost every single one died as a result of the opiates/morphine/herion causing respiratory or cardiac arrest/  every single one except i think Corey Haim did have a heart problem but they said if he didn't have a "drug addiction' like they stated than maybe he could have gotten help for his heart issues.

i watch this show on one of channels "Reelz" and the do all kinds of autopsy investigations of people like River Phoenix, Amy Winehouse, Michael Jackson, Corey Haim, Corey Monteith, Prince, Anna Nicole, John Belushi... the list goes on. every single one of these people had benzos in their mix -- but almost every single one died as a result of the opiates/morphine/herion causing respiratory or cardiac arrest/  every single one except i think Corey Haim did have a heart problem but they said if he didn't have a "drug addiction' like they stated than maybe he could have gotten help for his heart issues.

I believe Richard Lewis spoke about this very eloquently in one of his articles. I think he's articulated the whole issue amazingly well:

https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/10/benzodiazepines-psychiatrys-weakest-link/

If our goal is to feel better about ourselves and shape the reactions of other people so they do not look down upon us, talk about us behind our backs and shame us, then the word to use is dependence.  If our goal is get the public and media to recognize the seriousness of the problem, the recklessness and incompetence of prescribers and the great suffering involved, the word to use is addiction.  (It is in fact physical addiction but my purpose here is to talk about the importance of semantics.)

Words have associations.  They suggest things, they conjure up images and concepts.  "I claim my kids as dependents."  "I depend on sanitation workers to pick up my trash."  "I depend on my local police to protect me."  "I depend on a train to get me to work."  You get the idea.  This is common parlance.  When you then use the soft, innocuous word "dependence" in connection with benzodiazepines, the reaction in the mind of the listener is basically "okay, so what?"

In some threads on this forum there are long diatribes against the use of the word "addiction."  And these diatribes are usually delivered by the same people who advocate social and political action to address the benzo problem.  That's odd.  If you want results, use impactful (and accurate) language.  These "correct" people are taking the wind out of their own sails, diluting and obfuscating their own messages.

I know that some here are very invested in the softer (albeit ineffective) word and will chime in to protect that investment.  After all, changing words in Western Societies has become all the rage.  It's good to change words, especially if it makes you feel better.

I don't think that either addiction or dependence accurately convey my situation.

If I went to raise awareness, I would say:

"I have a seriously disabling Central Nervous System injury brought on by a psychiatric drug, and I have to slowly and carefully get off of that psychiatric drug to minimize further Central Nervous System Injury."

And I don't see why that is so far off. I went from someone who was fully functional who worked F/T in a demanding profession, traveled, exercised, drove a car, had no problem using public transportation, enjoyed many hobbies and interests and contributed to the society.

Now, I am agoraphobic, can function minimally, and need that continued prescription to keep functioning in that minimal fashion.

Dependent doesn't cut it. I cannot depend on a benzodiazepine to even get to the grocery store. Someone else has to do the shopping for me. Addicted doesn't cut it, either. I am not willing to take more benzodiazepines than I currently take just to make it to the grocery store, only to pass out on the way back home.

In some threads on this forum there are long diatribes against the use of the word "addiction."  And these diatribes are usually delivered by the same people who advocate social and political action to address the benzo problem.  That's odd.  If you want results, use impactful (and accurate) language.  These "correct" people are taking the wind out of their own sails, diluting and obfuscating their own messages.

I don't know about others and what there thoughts are, but, perhaps, I don't like being labeled. This, of course, won't stop others from possibly labeling me or the others one way or another, but I refuse to label myself. Labels are reductionist, and they take the entire person and all they stand for and all they are and all they did in their life and reduce them to one or two words. How cool is that? Not very. Perhaps, before this, I was labeled as "too shy", "too emotional", "too sensitive", etc. etc. You get the picture. Maybe, I am just tired of it all.

Words most definitely have connotations, When I think of addiction I think of shooting galleries, used needles in public toilets, muggings and theft, people incapacitated in the streets posing a problem to themselves and others. In some parts of the world addiction is linked with gun crime and organised crime. I think of the film "Trainspotting". Then I think of little old ladies like my mother trusting her local GP and filling her prescription for Ativan. I think of myself struggling to taper off Effexor and Diazepam. These conflicting images illustrate two separate realities. The medical profession is very much at the heart of the latter alongside the pharmaceutical companies. 

We have a real problem with illegal diazepam use in Scotland. I mean they have serious drug habits which involve not only benzos but they use them with the likes of heroin and methadone. Lethal combinations. These are chaotic lives where it is cheaper to buy 100mgs of benzos and enter oblivion for a few days than buying crack for a high lasting only 15 minutes. They usually don't get their prescriptions written out for them by doctors. They have the kind of problems that require serious intervention. Though I have tremendous sympathy for them I wouldn't ever see myself sitting next door to these people in rehab asking myself why I had acquired a drug habit.

If I were to tell my NP or a doctor that I was dependent or addicted to my blood pressure pills, they'd probably look at me as if I were crazy. It's probably because they "respect" blood pressure pills, know that they have to give them out to people, and don't want anything bad said about them. Although the benzos have been the toughest thing I've gotten off of, the truth is that some blood pressure pills are very strong and pose deep problems if you try to get off them too fast. Having been through the gamut with various blood pressure pills, I would say that the dependent/addictive properties are quite common. It seems that all drugs have dependency/addictive issues. The doctors say that you have to be on bp pills for life, similar to benzos, and that's because they know how difficult they can be to get off them.

I certainly "craved" a bp pill when I was going out of my mind with the cortisol rushes I was getting. Sometimes I used a pill hours before the right time and even took more, thinking that would help. 

In some threads on this forum there are long diatribes against the use of the word "addiction."  And these diatribes are usually delivered by the same people who advocate social and political action to address the benzo problem.  That's odd.  If you want results, use impactful (and accurate) language.  These "correct" people are taking the wind out of their own sails, diluting and obfuscating their own messages.

So we should use incorrect terminology to describe something in order to make people pay more attention to it, even when that misinformation means that more people are harmed in the process? That sounds like a solid plan.

The definition of addiction is pretty clear, and it involves the use of a substance despite harmful consequences. Most benzo patients would gladly flush every last pill if it helped them feel better. Who is twisting words here?

..........."I have a seriously disabling Central Nervous System injury brought on by a psychiatric drug, and I have to slowly and carefully get off of that psychiatric drug to minimize further Central Nervous System Injury."

 

................Dependent doesn't cut it. I cannot depend on a benzodiazepine to even get to the grocery store. Someone else has to do the shopping for me. Addicted doesn't cut it, either. I am not willing to take more benzodiazepines than I currently take just to make it to the grocery store, only to pass out on the way back home.

Well said. This isn't addiction in any sense of the word for most people and after a certain point if it doesn't resolve it shouldn't be called dependency or withdrawal. It is absolutely a brain/CNS injury and should be recognized as a separate and distinct medical condition.

I don't know about others and what there thoughts are, but, perhaps, I don't like being labeled. This, of course, won't stop others from possibly labeling me or the others one way or another, but I refuse to label myself. Labels are reductionist, and they take the entire person and all they stand for and all they are and all they did in their life and reduce them to one or two words. How cool is that? Not very. Perhaps, before this, I was labeled as "too shy", "too emotional", "too sensitive", etc. etc. You get the picture. Maybe, I am just tired of it all.

I don't like being labeled and I don't appreciate being lumped into a stigmatized group of people I have very little in common with but the thing that a lot of people don't seem to understand is that there are a dozen other much more important reasons why we have to get this right.

The most important being that labels and language dictate treatment. Doctors treat addiction by taking people off of addictive drugs QUICKLY and it's pretty much accepted as fact by anyone who knows anything about benzos that this is the WRONG way to get someone off of these drugs.

Plenty of protracted people like myself who are sick years after their last dose after doing an improper taper. You would think that this fact alone would be enough to make everyone in the benzo community understand why it is flat out dangerous to promote this as addiction, yet we still have people who insist it. Doctors have an excuse- they didn't receive proper education about these drugs. People who have been through this themselves have no excuse.

Words most definitely have connotations, When I think of addiction I think of shooting galleries, used needles in public toilets, muggings and theft, people incapacitated in the streets posing a problem to themselves and others. In some parts of the world addiction is linked with gun crime and organised crime. I think of the film "Trainspotting". Then I think of little old ladies like my mother trusting her local GP and filling her prescription for Ativan. I think of myself struggling to taper off Effexor and Diazepam. These conflicting images illustrate two separate realities. The medical profession is very much at the heart of the latter alongside the pharmaceutical companies.

I wonder how many people who promote this addiction narrative have actually ever experienced true addiction up close. Ever had your jewelry stolen by your brother? Ever watch your brother OD in the next room? Ever have to watch your brother go right back to doing the same drugs that shut down his liver and kidneys, put him in the hospital for weeks and nearly killed him? Ever have to deal with a parent who is an enabler who is utterly incapable of letting go, even to the point where it could very well end up getting someone killed? Ever have to deal with all of this shit for 30 years, the only break being when the addict is in jail or prison?

I have seen all of this up close. I can assure it is ugly. I can assure you that you want no part of it. And I can assure you that if you witnessed it first hand as I have you would understand the night and day difference between being addicted and suffering from a severe neurological injury that was caused by a drug that you wouldn't take again even if someone held a gun to your head.

If I were to tell my NP or a doctor that I was dependent or addicted to my blood pressure pills, they'd probably look at me as if I were crazy.

This is another excellent point. If a non-psych drug caused the exact same issues that benzos do, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Funny how AD's can cause the same issues as benzos but no one is lobbying to call that "addiction". Why not?

Can anyone who insists on calling this benzo illness addiction explain this to me?

If I were to tell my NP or a doctor that I was dependent or addicted to my blood pressure pills, they'd probably look at me as if I were crazy. It's probably because they "respect" blood pressure pills, know that they have to give them out to people, and don't want anything bad said about them. Although the benzos have been the toughest thing I've gotten off of, the truth is that some blood pressure pills are very strong and pose deep problems if you try to get off them too fast. Having been through the gamut with various blood pressure pills, I would say that the dependent/addictive properties are quite common. It seems that all drugs have dependency/addictive issues. The doctors say that you have to be on bp pills for life, similar to benzos, and that's because they know how difficult they can be to get off them.

 

I certainly "craved" a bp pill when I was going out of my mind with the cortisol rushes I was getting. Sometimes I used a pill hours before the right time and even took more, thinking that would help.

this is so true. i know that my father was absolutely dependent on coumadin as he had been taking it for 7 years and the doctor abruptly took away his medication which i was actually happy that he finally got off that rat poison but he had a rebound withdrawal from it and of course no one but me understood what was happening to him and after i researched "withdrawal" from coumadin on the net. this can happen with any drug.

I wonder how many people who promote this addiction narrative have actually ever experienced true addiction up close. Ever had your jewelry stolen by your brother? Ever watch your brother OD in the next room? Ever have to watch your brother go right back to doing the same drugs that shut down his liver and kidneys, put him in the hospital for weeks and nearly killed him? Ever have to deal with a parent who is an enabler who is utterly incapable of letting go, even to the point where it could very well end up getting someone killed? Ever have to deal with all of this shit for 30 years, the only break being when the addict is in jail or prison?

i've also experienced all of this. i don't why it is but my "addiction" to opiates was just very different than my benzo nightmare and watching my brother having problems with both opiates and soma and then growing up in an alcoholic household. i've seen it, i've lived. -- benzo's are just a different beast and i'm not sure why?

Can anyone who insists on calling this benzo illness addiction explain this to me?

maybe it's the kind of withdrawal that displays someone as being mentally ill or losing everything? i don't know?

FG,

do you think your benzo nightmare and your brother's addiction are different? -- are you two different people, different set of circumstances that happened to both of you? i'm trying to figure this out also for myself since my brother displays many "addict" behavior and personality traits. is it just the drugs he is still on? is it the kind of drugs he is still on -- soma and opiates verses benzos? you know what i mean?