Scared

I'm scared I'm going to have a seizure. I have been taking Ambien at night and I read that it will prolong benzo withdrawal so I decided to stop taking it. Now I have this fear that I'm going to have a seizure. From all that I read it is possible.

 

Idk what to do. I should of known.

I'm scared I'm going to have a seizure. I have been taking Ambien at night and I read that it will prolong benzo withdrawal so I decided to stop taking it. Now I have this fear that I'm going to have a seizure. From all that I read it is possible.

 

Idk what to do. I should of known.

 

A seizure it extremely unlikely that at a month off, especially if you have no history of seizures.  This would be a good time to start learning how to distract yourself from these dire thoughts.  Use whatever takes your mind off them, even for a little while, and when that stops working, switch to another distraction.  Self-distraction was by far the most valuable skill I learned during my withdrawal.  I did it relentlessly, using my very obsessiveness in the process.

 

At day 19 I had two seizures. One at home and one at the ER. I just feel I must stop the Ambien because it is just like a benzo. I have to force myself to do this.

 

 

I hope I don't have one because I'm done with meds thT are addictive.

Ambien doesn't lower seizure threshold that much. I agree with trying to distract yourself from these thoughts.

That's not entirely true. If OP has been taking

large doses of Ambien and has developed dependence on

it, going CT will result in a seizure. In fact, if you read the leaflet that comes with Ambien(Zolpidem) it says immediate cessation of the drug will cause hallucinations and epileptic seizures.

I speak from experience. You can read my story if you do a search using my name as the search string.

Op's story is similar to mine - had the first grand mal (Tonic-Clonic) seizure at home and was taken to ER, where the seizure continued.

OP, you're free to inbox me if you need further details.

Not sure how you can say a seizure "WILL" happen? 

 

I know some people that CT'd high doses (25mg) of Ambien and did not have a single seizure.

 

I was taking an average of 3mg of Klonopin along with 30mg of Temazepam for a few months and did a cold turkey from both at the advice of my PCP and did not have any seizures even though I was dependent on the drugs for sleep.

 

Doing a slow taper is always best, but seizures are not inevitable or guaranteed to happen.

 

Good luck.

This is an original post from 2017.  Giving advice on whether or not a person may have a seizure after a c/t from Z drugs or benzos ....is reckless and dangerous.  It doesn't matter what your experience or opinion is.  Distraction does not prevent seizures.  C/T is dangerous and can result in seizures.  That is a fact.  At the very least, a c/t should be medically supervised.  Being aware that a seizure could occur, will not CAUSE a seizure. 

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you read carefully, I said a slow taper is best.  Facts don't care about feelings and the facts are everyone doesn't automatically get a seizure from doing a CT and sometimes that is the only way people can get off of a Benzo or another Rx drug?  People have lost the art of debate.  Premise, premise, conclusion.  Instead they try to shame people from having an opinion by saying "its reckless and dangerous," or my favorite "it doesn't matter what your experience or opinion is."  Well then that applies to you too.  Everything you just posted is based on your experience and opinion.  Even the moderator Megan918 said a seizure was "extremely unlikely at a month off." 

 

People have to take all of the information and facts they can gather from medical professionals, family, friends, Benzobuddies, etc. and then do what is best for them.

This isn't about you and your experience of not having a seizure.  This is about the OP and Mystifies experience.  They both had seizures and you don't get to minimize how terrifying this was for them. 

 

The moderator replied that it is unlikely you will have a seizure 30 days out.  She is not an expert in seizure activity or with the OP's medical history.  Then she goes on to suggest distraction to remedy the situation.  This was incredibly irresponsible and dangerous advice for someone with a seizure history.  This isn't about the "art of debate."  This is about real people's lives. 

 

 

I never said it was about me, but your first impulse or response is to use an Ad Hominem logical fallacy as your argument and attack me, telling me what I can and cannot post and what I did or did not post even though I never posted any of the things you are claiming I did.  You are attacking me without proof.

 

Then you go on to use a false dilemma argument and claim I was trying to "minimize how terrifying this was for them."  Please show me where I posted that their experience wasn't terrifying?

 

I wasn't speaking to OP or Mystifie's experience, I was speaking to the claim that a seizure will always result from going CT.  And while I do not advocate, nor suggest a cold turkey, it worked for me.  That doesn't mean nor am I saying a CT is safe or that anyone should even try it.  A slow taper is always the best method for getting off Benzos or any psychoactive drug.

 

You are reading way too much into my post and you need to stop attacking and making up false claims as to what my intent was by adding words into my posts that I never made.

 

You don't get to decide what my posts contain, or what they are about by adding in things I never posted nor ever intended to post by assuming you have the right and the expertise to "fill in the blanks" with your own words and interpretations.

 

 

 

Here's my story. You be the judge:

 

Around mid January, 2020 I suffered what I now understand to be a Tonic-Clonic (grand mal seizure). I had been abusing very high doses of Zolpidem (aka Ambien, Stilnox, etc) - up to 100mg - 200mg of Zolpidem per day. Sometimes I'd take the pills during the day to calm me down.Initially I used to stick to the recommended dosage of 10 mg at night, but over time I started to up my dose as the 10mg was no longer effective to put me to sleep. Things escalated to the point where I would sleep the whole weekend or any chance I got.

 

I decided to stop cold turkey and didnt sleep much for 3 days. On that 3rd day of little sleep, I had the grand mal seizure. My seizure started with me feeling very depressed. This was followed by some form of hallucination or aura - I saw flashing rainbow colors. The seizure was very strong such that l dislocated and fractured my one of my shoulders. I also fracturec two bones in my vertebrae. Coupled with that, I bit my tongue very hard, but there was no incontinence.  I had  2  MRIs done (with and without contrast) and both came out clear. The neurologist then did some EEG tests which also came out clear.

He however then put on anti seizure medication (Valproic Acid) as a precaution to prevent another seizure. He(the  neurologist) went on to say at this point he can't make a diagnosis of epilepsy as he thinks the withdrawal from the sleeping pills caused the seizure and he will review me again in 6 months. I'm 46 years old and this is the first time(no history of seizures) I've had a seizure and I hope the last. The strength of the seizure ravaged my body and thinking about it just scares me flat.

 

The leaflet that comes with Ambien/Zolpidem tablets says the following:

 

Where dependence has been formed:

"In severe cases the following symptoms may occur: derealisation, depersonalisation, hyperacusis, numbness and tingling of the extremities, hypersensitivity to light, noise and physical contact, hallucinations or epileptic seizures."

 

I'm convinced this was a cold turkey withdrawal seizure.  What are your  thoughts?

Thank you.

 

I can't really advise about seizures.  It does sound like you are having one of the most common withdrawal effect which appears to be "fear".  I know I feared everything at the beginning.

Then doctors and therapists educated me on what is happening in the brain causing these symptoms.  Also therapy to reduce ANTS was extremely helpful.

 

https://www.amenclinics.com/blog/number-one-habit-develop-order-feel-positive/

 

Hopeful this info helps a bit.

In the world wide "Benzo Community" there is a lot of fear and misconceptions about seizures when getting off benzos.  YES, they can happen and sometimes do occur. But is actually is a bit rare. This SEEMS to happen more when someone uses extremely high doses of benzos, and then going cold turkey. BUT they CAN happen - rarely - if someone uses benzos and then goes off them by ANY ways or means. This is a real risk when getting off benzos but for the most part, the average benzo user will NOT have a seizure.

Seizures are rarely fatal. But they are serious.  And if you do have one, it is high time to start caring for yourself a lot better. Our society has been slowly taught to think that if something doesnt feel right, we should reach for yet another drug, instead of learning how to cope with life's problems WITHOUT taking another pill.

Isnt that why YOU got on benzos to begin with? You ran into some situational situation where you felt really anxious or afraid, saw your doctor, and he/she prescribed a benzo. And that benzo worked well for a while, so you just continued to take it. No one warned you of the dangers of doing that.

One of the Hallmarks of Benzo wd is FEAR/Anxiety. That all comes from your brain. ALL your wd symptoms come from your brain. Including the rare possibility of seizures.

People, now is not the time to argue and put each other down. ALL of us are facing an enormous crisis and danger NOT related to benzos! This is the time we have to support each other in any way, whether it be benzo wd or covid 19. Please, lets help each other get through ALL of this. I know I need all of you.

east

In my humble opinion, I don't think anyone can

say "it's rare or not" because none of us here has

done a study or compiled data to verify or refute

any of these claims. I also don't think it matters

much. In my case I was taking high doses of Ambien(a non-benzo but Z-drug nonetheless). I had a cold turkey

abrupt termination and ended up having a grand mal seizure (tonic clonic) seizure. That's all I can speak of. As for

the OP's fears of having one, the best we can do is offer support because no one really knows how things will pan out for him/her.

So yeah, I agree with you that what's important is to support each other, but I don't think anyone here can, with

absolute confidence, say "OP, you won't have a seizure".

HTH 

I respectfully and politely disagree; you don't have to do a study for everything to "prove it" one way or the other.  It doesn't have to be proved by some sort of "scientific study" when the "scientific" community does not recognize Benzo WD in the first place so why would anyone in the "scientific" community bother to study if people could have a seizure or keep track of the percentage of people that experience a seizure?

 

We can simply and accurately go with a preponderance of the evidence.  And the vast, vast majority of people on this site and other Benzo recovery sites never had a seizure when stopping Benzos. 

 

That is not to diminish the fact that you had a seizure and I am sorry you had to go through that experience, but from all reports on all Benzo recovery sites (and not just Benzo Buddies) seizures are rare and they do not happen very often. 

 

Take this example, if the US were in a war with another country and was being attacked by aircraft and someone developed a brand new missile that could shoot down the aircraft that were bombing the US and they were witnessed to be very effective, would people say, "well those missiles seem to work, but they were never tested in a formal study." 

 

Would that even matter?  No, they don't need to be studied because we can see that they work, without a formal study or test.  The same is true with going CT from Benzos; we can see from all  of people's combined experiences that seizures are rare.

 

Unfortunately some people do experience seizures and in rare cases they can be life threatening so I don't want to diminish that at all.  However, overall the incidence of seizure is very low and people can say that with confidence based on the empirical evidence that seizures are not common.  My PCP said he saw a lot of people on higher doses than I was on and quit CT without any problem.  In fact, my PCP told me I could quit CT and recommended it because he said I wasn't on high enough doses and I wasn't on long enough even though I was taking 2-3mg of K-pin along with 30mg of Temazepam s at the same time for just about 6 months for sleep.

 

Again I am sorry you had to experience a grand mal seizure.  But I also don't want to scare people new to this site into thinking that seizures are common and happen on a regular basis when people get off Benzos.

Likewise here, I respectfully and politely

disagree 

It's all anecdotal. With the size of the world population,

can you say as matter of fact so many don't experience seizures? You made reference to your PCP telling you of

his/her experience but that doesn't mean there are many others who would tell a different story.

 

Most benzos come with seizure warnings from

the manufacturers(which I would assume comes

from tests they conduct before getting approval from

the FDA). All the Z-drugs  or benzos I've used came with a warning that abrupt cessation would cause epileptic seizures when dependence has been established.

The argument about a missile working valid to a point at which the enemy develops a counter that renders the missile useless - at that point people will say it doesn't work.

 

You also say "we can see that they work, without a formal study or test.  The same is true with going CT from Benzos; we can see from all  of people's combined experiences that seizures are rare". I'm afraid this is also anecdotal. You don't have a mechanism to gather all of people's combined experiences.

 

OK, let's go with a very rudimentary approach to this. Let's say we start with a search for CT seizures on BB, then repeat this on Reddit, then progressively move to FB, then YT, etc. How many confirmations are we going to hit? Or nonconformations?

I actually think we're agreeing on most things here. 

I see the conversation continues.  That's good.  This subject is important and communicating accurate info to the reader is key.  Understanding the realities of a c/t and the possibility of seizure activity is not fear mongering.  It is offering awareness to those who are looking for info so that they can make their decision regarding their cessation of benzos...or dealing with a forced c/t.  I was forced or guided off the cliff into a brutal w/d.  The only thing the doctor did right was put me on a seizure med.  I suspect I had seizure activity into my 3rd month.  He only had me on the seizure med for 2 weeks.

 

The reason I suspected seizure activity is because I had periods of time where I would lose my ability to talk or 'find words.  This is one common sx of a complex focal seizure.  I would also have periods of twitching and strange smells and tastes.  This is a sx of simple focal.  Not all seizure activity is gran mal or the tonic clonic like mystified experienced.  It is usually obvious to others because of the violent nature of this seizure.

 

I don't know for sure that this was seizure activity.  I would of had to be hooked up with an EEG.  Just my opinion....I think seizure's are much more common in c/t's and fast tapers than we have the ability to collect data on.  I worked with people for 25 years who had seizure disorders.  I observed simple and complex seizures everyday.  They didn't normally last very long and the person rarely was aware they had one.  Just anecdotal...

 

One more anecdotal....I observed two people coming off benzos c/t have a seizure.  They were both gran mal.  This was in a fancy detox place that collects large fees while they damn near kill ya.  They were there for benzos only.  Anecdotal...but that is my experience.

 

The bottom line is this:  Be cautious and read the science that is out there. Don't C/T if ya can avoid it.

I agree that doing a CT is not recommended nor advised and a slow taper is always best for getting off of Benzos and other Rx drugs.

 

Drugs are approved by the FDA (in the US) if the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks.  Or in other words, the benefits outweigh the side effects.  In the FDA's reasoning, if the benefits of a Benzo outweighs the risk of a seizure (side effect), for example, then the drug is considered safe?  (Although I personally believe Benzos should be banned in the US)  If too many people reported a seizure during clinical trials, then the drug would not be deemed safe or if too many health care professionals reported seizures after the drug was released to market, it would not be so widely prescribed?  Benzos are one of the most widely prescribed drugs according to this article:  https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/688287824/steep-climb-in-benzodiazepine-prescribing-by-primary-care-doctors

 

However, not all side effects are discovered nor reported during clinical trials to approve a drug because most trials cannot adequately represent the entire population that will use the drug.

 

All of these additional side effects that were not discovered during clinical trials are reported anecdotally to doctors and pharmacists who then can report them to the FDA through a program called Medwatch.  In addition, people using any Rx drug can call in on an 800 number and anecdotally report side effects to the drug company that manufactures the drug or the FDA.

 

"Still, sometimes not everything is known about a drug's side effects until after it enters the marketplace and more people start using it. That's where MedWatch comes in. The FDA's post-marketing surveillance program seeks voluntary input, mainly from health care professionals, on adverse effects they may be seeing in the real world. Sometimes these reports are numerous and/or serious enough for the FDA to take regulatory action, such as adding warnings to a drug's label. One example of that involves the psoriasis drug Raptiva. The FDA required that the drug carry the agency's strongest warning, known as a black box warning, after it received reports of brain infections and meningitis in patients taking the drug.

 

The FDA also wants input from consumers when it comes to side effects. Beginning in July 2009, all dispensed prescriptions, and many OTC products, must be labeled with a toll-free number maintained by the agency for the purpose of reporting side effects with drugs, called "adverse events."

 

So the bottom line is that there could never be a large enough clinical study to support evidence of seizures resulting from going CT and the only way to determine that is through anecdotal evidence obtained from patients that they report to physicians or pharmacists who then report those side effects to the FDA; or side effects directly reported to the drug company or FDA by the patient.  The FDA gathers adverse event information from drug companies, as well.  Drug companies are required to report adverse events to the FDA, and failure to do so can lead to prosecution.

 

Source: https://www.rxlist.com/types_of_side_effects_and_fda_regulations/drugs-condition.htm

 

I guess it's a very complex matter even for the FDA.

Some people don't even know about BB or  Reddit foras,etc.

I must admit I don't know the ins and outs of FDA testing, but

I make my comments from the position of someone with higher degrees in both Physics and Engineering. So please anything I say with a pinch of salt as I'm not schooled in pharmacology

 

That said, I wonder whether the FDA would test CT from high

dosage use - much like Mercedes Benz will honour it's safely guarantee within the limits of the car

- and not corner cases, e. g if you tinker with the engine to further enhance its performance.  you're now on your own. You can't sue for any safety related cases.

 

Am I making sense?