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Author Topic: Tapering Questions (Clonazepam/klonopin)  (Read 294 times)
twirlyhead
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« on: February 05, 2010, 06:07:34 PM »

Hello to all!
I'm most likely asking questions that have been asked repeatedly. There's so much info here and I appreciate that! A few things I'd like to know from those who have experience:

1. If I've been taking 1mg of clonazepam, is it safe to switch over to diazepam only? Or is it generally recommended to combine the two?

2. I typically break or cut my pills with a razor. How do you cut them into smaller increments than half?

3. Once you have successfully tapered off, has anybody EVER found that their anxiety came back more intense and required benzos again?  I never want to take this stuff again. At least not on a regular basis. When I needed it once or twice in the past as an "In Case of Emergency" dose I never felt any withdrawl.  It was only after I began taking it daily...

Thanks!!

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Beeper
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 07:35:38 PM »

Hello to all!
I'm most likely asking questions that have been asked repeatedly. There's so much info here and I appreciate that! A few things I'd like to know from those who have experience:

1. If I've been taking 1mg of clonazepam, is it safe to switch over to diazepam only? Or is it generally recommended to combine the two? 
I believe it's safe, in terms of not having seizures.  We usually recommend people follow some form of the Ashton crossover protocol and switch a portion of the klonopin for an equivalent amount of diazepam, wait a week and substitute another portion, until you are on all diazepam.  You can read more about substitution tapers here:
http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/substitution
Quote

2. I typically break or cut my pills with a razor. How do you cut them into smaller increments than half?
  Most people just use a razor or pill splitter (that also uses a razor) and cut the halves in half. 
Quote
3. Once you have successfully tapered off, has anybody EVER found that their anxiety came back more intense and required benzos again?  I never want to take this stuff again. At least not on a regular basis. When I needed it once or twice in the past as an "In Case of Emergency" dose I never felt any withdrawl.  It was only after I began taking it daily... 
  I can't answer if "anyone ever" had their anxiety come back stronger, although I feel fairly sure at least one person in the history of benzo withdrawal has had this happen.  roll eyes  laugh   I know I started having less anxiety even while I was tapering. 

Thanks!!


[/quote]

Since you haven't been taking it on a regular basis, I think you won't have much trouble getting off of it.  The biggest challenge may turn out to be ,managing your fear of the process and what lies ahead.  People who are able to make a plan and stick to, accept what comes while remaining hopeful, seem to do the best.  I'm just sayin'.  wink
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On either klonopin or ativan ~20 years. On 2-3 mg ativan until 4/3/08.  Dry cut taper of .25mg every 2 weeks through 3/6 when I reached 1.25mg.  Started cutting .125 mg every 2 weeks since then.  Benzo free after ~20 years on 7/13/08!!!
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traycee
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 04:00:14 PM »

Hello to all!
I'm most likely asking questions that have been asked repeatedly. There's so much info here and I appreciate that! A few things I'd like to know from those who have experience:

1. If I've been taking 1mg of clonazepam, is it safe to switch over to diazepam only? Or is it generally recommended to combine the two?

2. I typically break or cut my pills with a razor. How do you cut them into smaller increments than half?

3. Once you have successfully tapered off, has anybody EVER found that their anxiety came back more intense and required benzos again?  I never want to take this stuff again. At least not on a regular basis. When I needed it once or twice in the past as an "In Case of Emergency" dose I never felt any withdrawl.  It was only after I began taking it daily...

Thanks!!


Hi there!
1.  Yes, you can and should switch to one benzo only.  If you are going to switch to Diazepam then you would cross over from Klon to diaz.
See Dr. Ashton's schedule.  I do know someone who got caught up on both and came off their klonopin first and then had to taper down their Valium.  This was double the time due to them not following the cross over.  She just added another benzo.
2.  Yes you can reduce your 1mg into quarters or 1/8 of a pill.  Anything smaller than that on a 1mg your dose is not distributed properly and you never really can be certain you are taking the same amount.  They do make .5mg which allows you to make smaller cuts if you do choose to dry cut.  See if you can get your doctor to prescribe them?
Also see titration.  It is very easy and very doable.
3.This question is a hard one to answer.  Many people come off and have to learn to deal with the original anxiety issue they had prior to benzo use.  Please read all the success stories here and you can see that anyone how has the desire and determination to stay off does.  It takes will power.  I know once I am off, I will never look back.  Sounds like you are going to be able to do that yourself.
I wish you all the success in the world.  Remember, w/d takes time...you have to ACCEPT this is temporary and live day by day.  Don't set unrealistic expectations and listen to your body.
We are here for you.
Traycee
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Weaning off 1.75mg of clonazepam. Now at .50mg on June 8th

My song for today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLWEFv_gMxE
mary1331
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2010, 05:27:39 PM »

Hmmm interesting I "crossed over" from evil Xanax XR to Klnopin,

I guess I am suppose to start tapering the klnopin. 

For awhile I ended up taking both, I guess I missed the whole cross over point, so please don't end up on two benzo's. 

Also how do you know if you crossed over because I felt sick and horrible even though I had  supposedly "crossed over".

Again please do not put yourself in a pickle and have two benzo's upsetting your brain.

Mary
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> kolopin 3 mg for 15 years then moved to Xanax,
April 2009 to July 2009 Xanax up to 12 mg along with Ambien
October 2009 to December 2009  began taking Xanax XR, 4.5 mg Xanax sublinguals 2mg and Kolonpin 7mg.
13.5mg all together downward spiral
3 Overdose/convulsions
December rapid detox, 7 days and then c/t
May 2010 slowly have tapered to 4.75
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=18055.0
HotelYorba
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 06:15:29 PM »

Hello to all!
I'm most likely asking questions that have been asked repeatedly. There's so much info here and I appreciate that! A few things I'd like to know from those who have experience:

1. If I've been taking 1mg of clonazepam, is it safe to switch over to diazepam only? Or is it generally recommended to combine the two?

2. I typically break or cut my pills with a razor. How do you cut them into smaller increments than half?

3. Once you have successfully tapered off, has anybody EVER found that their anxiety came back more intense and required benzos again?  I never want to take this stuff again. At least not on a regular basis. When I needed it once or twice in the past as an "In Case of Emergency" dose I never felt any withdrawl.  It was only after I began taking it daily...

Thanks!!



1)I was on .5 klono, and decided to switch half of my dosage to diazepam before I tapered, and here is why: klono and valium are both benzos. However, different benzo’s have different “profiles of action” (klono relaxes your muscles much more then valium, but valium puts you to sleep much better then klono). That being said, I wanted a balance. I know that the biggest problem I would have is insomnia, so switching some klono for valium seemed like a good idea. I also switched because although it would be possible to razor cut my klono till the end, it is often inconsistent and very difficult. Valium comes in 1 mg pills, 2 mg pills, 3, I believe 4, and definitely 5. It will be much easier to cut down on these, as 1 mg, or .5 of valium is often the point when people jump off…where as with klono people often jump off at .05 or less which is virtually impossible to obtain by dry cutting the klono since the smallest form it comes in is .5 mg. ONE CATCH: I am in a hurry (I know that’s the worst thing for someone going through a benzo taper). But I did not want to take an entire month switching my dosage of klonopin to valium because I want to be off before the end of April. I need to be at least half way healed by the end of August which is when I will return to college. In your situation, because you were on .5 more klono then me (quite a bit more), I suggest switching your entire dosage to valium.
2)Here is what I do to cut my klono smaller then halves: I print out a ruler first. Go to google images and type “ruler”, and find picture of one that is scaled correctly and print it out. Then I line the pill up evenly on the ruller, and first cut half. Then I take those halves, but them back on the ruler, and cut those in half. Now I have 4 quarters of a .5mg pill. After that, I will cut the quarters in half very gently, and although it’s not perfect, you can usually judge by the shapes of the little pieces if they are pretty close to each other.
3) I cannot speak on this because I’m not off my benzo yet. However, most people do not return to benzos, and actually find that although there anxiety may be bad for a few months after they jump, they greatly prefer a benzo-free mind. Benzos numb our emotions and thoughts…thus they essentially create an unrealistic picture of life. As Stevie Nicks once said discussing her ordeal with getting off klonopin “I'm very proud of myself. I wish it had never happened. I wasn't myself. Doctors who prescribe these pills are mushing out people's real moods. I discovered that I like me with all my moods.”
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1/2/10-Trying to make the switch to valium from .6 klonopin. Taking about .375 mg klonopin and 5mg valium.
1/10/10-.3125 mg klonopin, 5 mg valium
1/18/10-.25mg klonopin, 5 mg valium
1/24/10-.1875 klonopin, 5 mg valium
1/31/10-.125 klonopin, 5 mg valium
2/14/10-.0625 klonopin, 5 mg valium
2/23/10- Klonopiss DONE, 5 mg valium
3/1/10- 4.5 mg valium
3/8/10- 4.0 mg valium
3/21/10-3.5 mg valium
3/30/10- 3.0 mg valium
4/6/10- 2.5 mg valium
4/13/10-2.0 mg valium
4/29/10-1.5 mg valium
5/10/10-1.0 mg valium
5/16/10-.5 mg valium

5/23/10--BENZO FREE!!!

"I'm gonna fight em off, a seven nation army couldn't hold me back."
mary1331
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 07:40:28 PM »

anyone please see my original question about .175 being too baby a step for a klnopin cut.  Sorry but I lost track of my answer. thanx
Mary
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> kolopin 3 mg for 15 years then moved to Xanax,
April 2009 to July 2009 Xanax up to 12 mg along with Ambien
October 2009 to December 2009  began taking Xanax XR, 4.5 mg Xanax sublinguals 2mg and Kolonpin 7mg.
13.5mg all together downward spiral
3 Overdose/convulsions
December rapid detox, 7 days and then c/t
May 2010 slowly have tapered to 4.75
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=18055.0
traycee
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2010, 07:46:48 PM »

anyone please see my original question about .175 being too baby a step for a klnopin cut.  Sorry but I lost track of my answer. thanx
Mary

Not sure what you are referring to Mary?
Do you mean .125mg being  baby step?  For some yes and for others it's not.

What is your question?
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Weaning off 1.75mg of clonazepam. Now at .50mg on June 8th

My song for today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLWEFv_gMxE
mary1331
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2010, 08:00:32 PM »

Well If I am on 6 mg of klnopin is cutting down .165 okay???  or is my pace too slow?HuhHuhHuhHuh??
  I just want to do a slow taper but again am I going too slow?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh?
I want my brain to get used to each cut before moving on. 

thanks
Mary
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> kolopin 3 mg for 15 years then moved to Xanax,
April 2009 to July 2009 Xanax up to 12 mg along with Ambien
October 2009 to December 2009  began taking Xanax XR, 4.5 mg Xanax sublinguals 2mg and Kolonpin 7mg.
13.5mg all together downward spiral
3 Overdose/convulsions
December rapid detox, 7 days and then c/t
May 2010 slowly have tapered to 4.75
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=18055.0
TC
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 11:28:34 PM »

Hi Mary,

I think your first reduction sounds fine.  Everyone is different when it comes to benzo withdrawal, but the key seems to be to slow and steady.  I think you are doing the right thing by picking that amount to start.  You never want to start too big and have things end up snowballing.  You could start at that point, see how you feel, and adjust your rate of taper based on how you feel.  You could always speed it up or slow it down based on how you are doing at the time.  I have had to make adjustments here and there in my taper to make sure things didn't get away from me. smiley

TC
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Taper version 2.0 (original dose 2mg K)
11/6/09  .97 mg    12/6/09  .85 mg  12/31/09  .75mg 1/17. 66mg   
2/8 .56mg  2/16 .53mg  2/26 .50 mg

3/14 .47 mg  3/24 .44mg  4/1 .40mg
4/7   .37mg  4/21 .31mg 4/29  .28 mg  5/12  .22mg  5/18 .20 mg  5/25 .17mg   6/1  .14mg
6/15  .07mg  6/25 .02 mg

6/27/10 last dose of Klonopin...good riddance green monster.

6/28/10 BENZO FREEEEEE!
treehealing
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Last Summer~


« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2010, 12:22:18 AM »

Hi Mary,

I see you found a place to post.  Just keep asking questions as they come, no matter how stupid you might think they sound.  My taper experience was not a good at all because of the amount of benzos I was on compared to what they would start tapering me at.  If you want to remain functional, I would advise you to take it slow like you are and just let your body really tell you when it is ready to cut; remember your taper schedule is not set in stone.

I am not going to sugar coat things, this is probably not going to be easy and might be the hardest thing you have ever done.  You are on what most would consider a very large amount of Klonopin. I know you started this journey on even a larger amount and commend you for getting this far.  It is definitely going to take some time and patience to get off of the rest.  I think it is even harder for us who have been through a cold turkey or tapered at an insane rate, because we live in fear of what we have been through. Please try and not let that fear consume you because you don't know how your body is going to react to a slow, sensible taper.

I am on your team and am rooting for you yippee.

Tree smitten
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 02:32:31 AM by treehealing » Logged

Started on Klonopin in 2002 up to 8 mg a day prescribed, abusing it pretty much right away. Added Ativan to the mix in large amounts (approx 25 mg Klonopin and Ativan a day) at the end. Many ER visits with more Ativan given IV. Three hospitalizations to follow with Phenobarbitol, cold turkey and then Valium taper with many Sx and psych ward visits. Finally free 2 years ago, but with intermittent, high dose use since then.  Last use Dec 12, 2009
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