Updosing Support Group

I hope someone can chime in -- has anyone updosed and initially felt as bad if not worse at first?  I updosed yesterday from .65 to 1mg.  I know it can take some time -- but I actually think I feel worse (or maybe just more depressed because it hasn't worked yet).

 

It took some time for me to stabilize after up-dosing. Based on your comment above & your signature, it appears that you felt better using the Xanax without additional meds/supplements than the other combinations of things that you have tried. For me, dosing Xanax every 3 to 4 hours at whatever total dosage I use works well for maintaining a level blood serum level. Sincere Best Wishes

Hi FL,

about how long did it take you to feel the effects and stabiization?  I actually felt really well on all of the supplements packed in (they were huge amounts) -- it was when I felt the need to take them away that things fell apart.......slowly then crashed.  that is when I spoke to the company who said their supplements were meant to help people get off psych meds by potentiating them......so that "of course you feel terrible coming off them mid taper".    I can't go back on them as I was on 16 total and they had things like 15000%RDA of B12 and 6000% B6 plus you name it --- vitamin and supplement -- it was in there.

 

I am praying I can gain back some stability.  it is day three and I actually feel worse - did that happen to you or anyone else where you felt as bad if not worse before seeing any results?

thanks

 

FL,

I was placed on those he-man supplements by my doctor to "get my body ready to taper" -- it was a super smooth taper but then my b6 came back in the toxic range and I spoke to my doc and we decided to taper off of them.  I didn't know how much they were masking my WD as well as potentiating the meds.  that said, as I came off I was slowly declining but didn't fully make the link - then once off - I crashed.  I was on ten of their daily essential nutrients and six of their amino acids (hardy nutritionals is the company out of Canada -- you can see them online).......

 

I have gone from functional to non-functional with severe mental symptoms that I didn't have before ---- as well as increased tinnitus, burning skin, etc

 

praying an update will offer me some relief

After my cold turkey withdrawal from Valium, my doctors prescribed Xanax. It took several months for me to return to full functionality. More recently, when I tried a taper from Xanax and I experienced a rapid decline in functionality, up-dosing brought me back to my baseline within a few weeks. No, I didn't feel worse before feeling better. My diagnosis is physical dependence on Xanax and my prescribed treatment plan is to continue with maintenance doses of Xanax indefinitely with 3 month follow ups with my prescribing physician. 

Hi FL

Yeah, I have a feeling it may be more in the "month's" department for me as well in terms of getting back to functional.  although I wasn't completely cold turkeyed off -- it was pretty damn near close........

 

how long had you been CT off valium before you went on Xanax? 

 

are you pretty stable now? 

thanks for all of your help

FL

went back and was reading many of your posts-- sounds like you have done a lot of research regarding "glutamate storms" and does it make sense for some -- especially long term users  - to remain on some level of benzo.

 

I have only been on the benzo ---well, the first time I was on Xanax about nine months and then this last time I was on it for three months in the spring of 2020 before I began my taper.  I agree with you about glutamate storms as being a primary issue for the level of suffering.  have you ever researched the glutamate blockers like ruzilole (sp?) in terms of a med that could be helpful in alleviating some of the suffering with the glutamate?

 

thanks

FL

went back and was reading many of your posts-- sounds like you have done a lot of research regarding "glutamate storms" and does it make sense for some -- especially long term users  - to remain on some level of benzo.

 

I have only been on the benzo ---well, the first time I was on Xanax about nine months and then this last time I was on it for three months in the spring of 2020 before I began my taper.  I agree with you about glutamate storms as being a primary issue for the level of suffering.  have you ever researched the glutamate blockers like ruzilole (sp?) in terms of a med that could be helpful in alleviating some of the suffering with the glutamate?

 

thanks

 

300days, I am not qualified to share my current thoughts and hypothesis regarding possible links between Glutamate storms and their relations with the use of benzodiazepines and glutamate blockers. I am familiar with several people who have experienced Glutamate storms as a result of alcohol withdrawal, traumatic brain injuries and strokes.

 

Here is a recent article entitled "Glutamate and microglia activation as a driver of dendritic apoptosis: a core pathophysiological mechanism to understand schizophrenia" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-021-01385-9

 

The article concludes: "In conclusion, in this article we have highlighted some of the pathways toward dendritic apoptosis that could stem from a transient glutamate storm and might be aggravated by microglial activation. This links the glutamate hypothesis with the intervention of the immune system in the etiology of schizophrenia. These phenomena could explain the exaggerated synaptic pruning that occurs during late adolescence or early adulthood which might be a core feature underlying schizophrenia. Of course, many other crucial questions remain, such as the timeline of events, the exact nature and location of the cells and neural circuits affected, as well as details about possible cause-effect relationships (e.g., which is the primary event, a neuronal excitation imbalance or a primary microglia dysfunction?). Additionally, it should be remembered that the mechanisms mentioned here may be neither exclusive to schizophrenia nor representative of all types of the disease, given its great heterogeneity16,133. At the same time, considering that schizophrenia is a multifactorial and highly polygenic disorder that shares many risk genes with other psychiatric illnesses including bipolar disorder, depression, intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorders, it is to be expected that these diseases may also share some of these same mechanisms which, in each case, may disrupt different key brain circuits. This driving hypothesis has relevant therapeutic implications. Specifically, it suggests that pharmacological interventions during critical periods of the disease, such as the prodromal stage or during the transition to psychosis, should target dendritic apoptosis, microglia or preventing the glutamate storm. Future research on dendritic apoptosis, brain integrity and clinical outcomes should combine brain imaging techniques, central CSF biomarkers, animal models and cell biology."

 

Based upon my observations it is clear to me that Glutamate storms, from whatever causes, may lead to irreversible damage to the central nervous system and other body systems. Personally, I've found this adage works well for me in many aspects of life: If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it and if it is broken seek out professional assistance before attempting to make repairs. Sincere Best Wishes

 

Edit: an article entitled,

"WHAT IS GLUTAMATE?

AN EXAMINATION OF THE FUNCTIONS, PATHWAYS AND EXCITATION OF THE GLUTAMATE NEUROTRANSMITTER" BY SARA ADÃES, PH.D. , JULY 2, 2018

 

https://neurohacker.com/what-is-glutamate

Thanks FL

I see you have been on 1mg of Xanax since 2018 --- are you finding that you are hitting tolerance and need to go up?  about how long after you updosed did you begin to feel the glutamate storm/symptoms begin to abate?  I am on day four and today felt a slight slight shift in some relief but unclear so far.

Thanks FL

I see you have been on 1mg of Xanax since 2018 --- are you finding that you are hitting tolerance and need to go up?  about how long after you updosed did you begin to feel the glutamate storm/symptoms begin to abate?  I am on day four and today felt a slight slight shift in some relief but unclear so far.

 

I'm happy you are finding some relief. As mentioned in the above link, "What is Glutamate", there appears to be a so called Goldilocks level of this necessary neurotransmitter which is different for everyone due to among other things genetics and the environmental circumstances in which one lives.  I believe it may be in your best interests to find out where your Goldilocks levels of the things that keep you ticking are for yourself with guidance from a well informed professional and not try to compare yourself with other individuals. These optimum levels may likely change with time and circumstances in life. Sincere Best Wishes

calling out for any long time updosers.....I updosed from .65 to 1mg of Xanax eight days ago.  I am not worse -- but not much better.  I imagine it is still early yet --- any thoughts, suggestions, stories of hope?

calling out for any long time updosers.....I updosed from .65 to 1mg of Xanax eight days ago.  I am not worse -- but not much better.  I imagine it is still early yet --- any thoughts, suggestions, stories of hope?

 

Hi 300days. I updosed from 0.80 valium to 1.40 and then to 2.50. It took me about two months to get out of acute wd. Then slightly improved over the next months. I'm still destabilized from all that glutamate storm that happened two years ago. I'm also not sure the updose worked at all and if it was only holding that made me get better, but it's too late to know now. I believe that once the brain goes into that state, it takes time time time time. Just my own experience and interpretation of what happened to me, with no scientific evidence to prove it of course.

Fi Addendum, based on your experience and research, do you think some of us long term users and kindled beings just can't ever come off? I'm going at snail's pace. I've only cut 0.80 mgs valium in two years, but at least I'm chipping away at it. Do you think it's a lost battle and I should probably stay on this dose? I'm genuinely curious to know your opinion.

Fi Addendum, based on your experience and research, do you think some of us long term users and kindled beings just can't ever come off? I'm going at snail's pace. I've only cut 0.80 mgs valium in two years, but at least I'm chipping away at it. Do you think it's a lost battle and I should probably stay on this dose? I'm genuinely curious to know your opinion.

 

Valiumnomore, I can't speak for others but for me I have accepted that I cannot come off and remain functional. I'm physically dependent upon Xanax and coming off, for whatever reasons, renders me almost immediately nonfunctional with other very serious side effects which I will not go into. I am currently enjoying a very good quality of life and can do almost anything that I want to do except of course for some activities that I am no longer able to do due to my age, broken bones and various titanium parts that were implanted to repair those. Sincere Best Wishes 

Fi Addendum, based on your experience and research, do you think some of us long term users and kindled beings just can't ever come off? I'm going at snail's pace. I've only cut 0.80 mgs valium in two years, but at least I'm chipping away at it. Do you think it's a lost battle and I should probably stay on this dose? I'm genuinely curious to know your opinion.

 

Valiumnomore, I can't speak for others but for me I have accepted that I cannot come off and remain functional. I'm physically dependent upon Xanax and coming off, for whatever reasons, renders me almost immediately nonfunctional with other very serious side effects which I will not go into. I am currently enjoying a very good quality of life and can do almost anything that I want to do except of course for some activities that I am no longer able to do due to my age, broken bones and various titanium parts that were implanted to repair those. Sincere Best Wishes

 

Wishing you a great life. Thousands of people are on benzos till the day they die and absolutely nothing happens unless they try to come off, so it's a perfectly valid option.

thanks valium,

I am on week three of my updose and actually seem worse -- but had been acute before the updose as well -- praying time will calm this system down.  of course there is this part of me that is screaming out "the updose isn't working -- just cut and get off this stuff" but I don't think that would be very wise

thanks valium,

I am on week three of my updose and actually seem worse -- but had been acute before the updose as well -- praying time will calm this system down.  of course there is this part of me that is screaming out "the updose isn't working -- just cut and get off this stuff" but I don't think that would be very wise

 

Hi 300-

I am in the same boat and the amount of times I change my mind a week to continue to taper or hold is insane. I am right there with you. Trying to stay calm in my bed. May the stabilizing fairies be in our favor. 😀

thanks valium,

I am on week three of my updose and actually seem worse -- but had been acute before the updose as well -- praying time will calm this system down.  of course there is this part of me that is screaming out "the updose isn't working -- just cut and get off this stuff" but I don't think that would be very wise

 

When I was at my worst I kept going up, down, for a few days. Then a buddie told me: stick to 2.5 (or whatever dose you're on now), and take it consistently every day at the same time for two or three months. Don't even think of changing anything before two months. I did it for seven months and it really paid off.

valium and fruity pop --

thank you guys so much for responding -- god, its so scary.  the "waiting" is so hard when it feels so bad.  but thank you for being there for me and I am here for you as well!

fruity pop -- what is your story --- you still on klonopin? 

fruity pop -- sorry, my last post sounded kind of weird and demanding "what's your story"? 

sorry about that -- actually just read your thread and see that you did a k to v to l transition....I am sorry you are also dealing wth coming off an AD and lyme

 

I am quite kindled in my own right and this taper has been a disaster......not sure it is as much the Xanax itself as it is just how destabilized I have become as a result of having to come off SIXTEEN supplements my doc had me on --- high end ones and we had no idea the impact they were having --- I have literally fallen apart since coming off of them

 

anyway, I loved your thread- - sorry you are going through so much -- if you would like a taper pal -- PM me ---

I'm in houston -- I am 50 and --- and had to stop working about six weeks ago as my symptoms became too severe

 

look forward to hearing from you

valium,

I hate to ask you to drudge up painful memories -- but I am also in acute withdrawal -- and day 23 post updose and holding....so, I know its early on and I just have to be patient.  the mental symptoms are my main issue -- they are horrendous -- did you also have a lot of panic/fear/depression when you were in that acute state back in 2019?

thanks so much

valium,

I hate to ask you to drudge up painful memories -- but I am also in acute withdrawal -- and day 23 post updose and holding....so, I know its early on and I just have to be patient.  the mental symptoms are my main issue -- they are horrendous -- did you also have a lot of panic/fear/depression when you were in that acute state back in 2019?

thanks so much

 

Hi 300. Due to back issues I can no longer write much, but you can click on myprofile and then go to "posts" and look for my first posts on this forum.  It's all there. I couldn't stop writing back then.

Hello!  I recently c/t'd from Klonopin and went back up to .5 and was still left with lingering sir hunger and chest pain.  I went up to 1mg and was more relaxed about it and I believe those issues mostly went away. I crossed over to valium to follow the ashton method but I did it abruptly and, again, had an almost c/t episode but redosed the klonopin to more slowly cross over as suggested by the Ashton Manual.  Again, I did it too fast because I had a misunderstanding about the need for Valium to build up to an equivalent amount.  I did it in 9 days rather than the suggested month or so.  However, I have been off of Klonopin completely for 23 days, and on Valium for 33 days.  I am feeling discouraged that the cross over has successfully eliminated the symptoms of air hunger, which I find to be intolerable and experience 24/7.  I assume this is residual Klonopin withdrawal peaking out from beneath the Valium. 

 

Do I try to updose 5mgs of Valium or so to see if it covers up the Klonopin withdrawals so that I could get into a frame of mind to continue crossing over?  Or do I just stick on the 19mg of V and hope that I can stabilize and get rid of the sir hunger?  (I was on 20mg and still decided to go down to 19mg anyway.  I no longer think it is a good idea to go any further for right now.  But I know that these symptoms are not from the 1mg Valium reduction.)

Hello, I updosed my clonazepam about two week ago from from 1.75 which was an initial cut that I took very poorly up to my old standard of 2mg and was doing quite well for the first two weeks however the past week has been quite awful - not the same as my previous withdrawal symptoms but I'm feeling extremely anxious and think I may be in a wave? Is this a common occurrence? I couldn't seem to find a similar circumstance that someone else may have been in.

 

Should I expect this wave to continue to linger for a while? I'm having thoughts of even updosing again to a previous high of 2.25mg if I don't feel better soon as I dont feel overly functional.

 

Very much appreciate any support or thoughts that could be shared.

 

Thank you.

Can updosing and then tapering be somehow a good strategy?

 

One hypothesis I consider is that one can updose until reaching a comfortable dose and then taper at a very slow rate. The lack of accumulated stress due to the updosing could make you feel better even when you reach your previous dose before updosing.

 

Are there experiences like this here or anyone heard about someone that had success doing this?

 

Like... feeling bad at 5mg of V then going to 7.5mg but still bad and then 10mg feeling comfortable. Stabilize for like 3 weeks and then start a 5% taper or even 2% taper... yes, longer, but keeping the normalcy of your life. Is there a chance of reaching the 5mg mark again feeling better than before all the updosing?