New member, spouse (domestic partner) of Skee

Hi.  I don't know really how to explain this, so I'll outline it in brief:

 

My husband is Skee.  He and I both take benzos (currently clonazepam); my psych is tapering me off much more slowly than his is him, and he's taking much more than I am.  (I currently take 0.50mg/0.25mg; I'm not sure I'm supposed to talk about Skee or his dosages or anything.)  This is causing both him and me a lot of heartache and pain, not the least because we've been very close to each other's throats as this entire process has been happening.

 

I was invited to this board by him, when it was becoming clear that this was going to be a long-term thing and we were both going to need a lot of support.  I've been trying to be supportive of him, and both of us trying to taper down is causing strife that is impacting everyone we feel cared enough about by to be willing to offer support, including our roommate (who is watching this) and a couple of friends who are choosing to be more affected by this than they otherwise could.

 

I can't even begin to sort through my emotions right now... I just know that I hurt, that everything's in a tangle, and I can't avoid the barbs in the wire.  I know that Skee hurts even more -- but he can tell his story.

 

My heart breaks, seeing him so dull and listless and apathetic, he who used to be full of fire and passion and vigor and the Scorpio nature.  (He and I have birthdays that are six days apart, and we're both Scorpios.)  It hurts me to know that his doctor hasn't heard anything at all about the Ashton Protocol, and is going to force him down faster than he should.  (It also hurts me to know that his doctor evidently doesn't know about the recidivism rates of the American Standard Benzo Withdrawal Protocol, and... well, I'll tell my entire story elsewhere, if I'm approved.)

 

-skeewolf

Welcome to BenzoBuddies, skeewolf. 

 

It must be very tough for two people who live together to get off benzos at the same time even if they are both allowed to do a slow taper.  You are right, Skee needs to tell his own story and seek the help he needs. He does have a thread of his own on this Welcome board so this will be your thread for now. 

 

You said your doctor is tapering you slowly off clonozepam.  Could you tell us how you are tapering and how it seems to be going so far?

 

Hi Skeewolf,

 

Welcome to benzo buddies.  I am looking forward to hearing more of your story.  We can offer support as you taper off of your med, and hopefully, answer any questions you may have. 

 

 

Tim

Hi Skeewolf - wow two of you coming of the Clonazepam at the same time.  I hope you both continue on your journey - would be good if your husband could get his dr to bring him off slowly as well.  Could make life a little more bearable for you both.

 

Good luck to you with your taper and well done for making the decision to get off the benzos. 

Hi Skeewolf-

 

Is it possible for your husband to see your doctor who seems to understand about the slow taper process?

 

Just Breathe

Welcome to BB's, Skeewolf ~

 

Can your husband go to your doctor for this withdrawal as Just Breathed suggested? This seems like it

could be a help in many ways. There are plenty of NON benzo-wise doctors out there.

 

If you have one that is embracing a slow taper, then you have really got a needed medical support system.

I understand your concern about your husband's taper schedule and care, but please also concentrate on your own

needs in this process as well.

 

Getting off the benzos can be done. You are already taking great steps toward making that happen in your life.

You will get plenty of support on here and there is so much reading to do on this forum that will help you understand

the process of withdrawal and taking your life back from the benzos.

 

It is all a process. Beginning is huge. Congrats! 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies, skeewolf. 

 

It must be very tough for two people who live together to get off benzos at the same time even if they are both allowed to do a slow taper.  You are right, Skee needs to tell his own story and seek the help he needs. He does have a thread of his own on this Welcome board so this will be your thread for now. 

 

You said your doctor is tapering you slowly off clonozepam.  Could you tell us how you are tapering and how it seems to be going so far?

 

The tapering is quite gradual, and at this point my doctor is willing to let me not reduce the dose while Skee's dealing with his issues.  He has, of course, asked me to reduce my dosage if I can -- and I agree, it's necessary, these are evil drugs and I don't have any idea why they're not on Schedule II (other than the fact that there'd be too few benzos available in the US for the number of people dependent on them).  I've explained Skee's issue to him, and that my primary focus right now is to be the best support that I can be for him.  My psych's supportive.

 

My psych started me on Remeron (mirtazapine), which is actually doing more for the original reason I went on the benzos in the first place than the benzos ever did.  (It's making it possible for me to eat, and it's also doing a lot for my anxiety.  The downside is that it leaves me unable to think for the first few hours after I wake up.)

 

The maximum increment I'll try to reduce or adjust my dosage of clonazepam by is 0.125mg, or 1/4 of a 0.5mg tablet.  I'm at 0.875mg/day right now, 0.5mg AM and 0.375mg PM.

 

Anyway... for my full med list, as prescribed and recommended to me, and my psych is fully aware of and tolerant of (not enthusiastically, but accepting) it all:

 

clonazepam, 0.5mg bid prn

bupropion SR 100mg tid

mirtazapine 30mg qhs

cannabis prn anxiety

 

I'm anorexic (not anorexia nervosa -- I *want* to gain weight, and I think I look too skinny) as a symptom of anxiety.  I'm insomniac as a symptom of anxiety.  My anxiety went into overdrive because of the issues that Skee was going through, and I lost 15 pounds (of 125lb) over the course of 6 weeks.  When I hit 6 pounds down, I got my medical cannabis recommendation and made an appointment with my doctor; it helps with the nausea that I get when I try to eat when I'm so anxious.  It wasn't really helping my weight, though, and it doesn't have the appetite-stimulation effect that many others get.  The next thing was bupropion and clonazepam, as a stopgap of something that I've been on before that helped -- but it wasn't helping enough, either.  It was better than completely wasting, though.

 

It took a while to find psychs with openings.  When I was working with the advocate staff at our insurance company, they finally found two, one with Skee's doctor and one with mine.  I had them put Skee first -- and that was a mistake, else I would have ended up with his doctor (and he would be much more willing and able to deal with me) and he would have ended up with mine.

 

At this point, I'm kinda lost.  I'm going to try to see if I can get my doc to take him, and I'm going to check with the local (Santa Clara County, California) medical societies to see if they have any knowledge of anyone with experience helping people who are dependent on benzos.

 

(Skee raised a good point, that I raised to my psych later: There's no shortage of people who would be willing to help him -- after he lost everything and was destitute.  They won't look twice at someone who seems to be 'with it' enough to have a high-paying job.)

 

For the record, I've gone cold-turkey off of 0.5mg clonazepam bid, during a time I was jobless and the next thing to homeless.  I lost several friends -- friends I counted as family -- and burned several bridges, doing so.  I have experienced, to an extent, what the effects of a hard step like that are.  I know how hard it was for me.  It sucked.

 

I believe that, related to the side effects and negative effects associated with withdrawal, it's a logarithmic progression as opposed to a linear one due to the nature of having a finite number of GABA-A receptors.  (This means that any reduction of benzo dose is going to affect a larger percentage of receptors at high doses than lower doses.)

 

Skee said to me, last night, "there's nothing left of the person you fell in love with."  That broke my heart.

 

-skeewolf

"there's nothing left of the person you fell in love with." 

Skeewolf, the person you feel in love with is still there - benzo withdrawal has taken over temporarily. But the real Skee will be back once he is benzo free.  That's a certain.

 

Its great to see you have a supportive psych dr on board and well done for supporting your husband through this.  To make life easier for you both, you could reduce more slowly - say .0625mg at a time, it may make your withdrawal a little easier.  Or even look at liquid titration, that seems better for some.  The good news is that you're on a relatively low dose so you won't have an extra long taper.

 

Just a little warning, cannabis and benzos aren't a good mix.  I know you take it for medical reasons, but it might be worth talking this through with your dr.

 

 

"there's nothing left of the person you fell in love with." 

Skeewolf, the person you feel in love with is still there - benzo withdrawal has taken over temporarily. But the real Skee will be back once he is benzo free.  That's a certain.

 

Its great to see you have a supportive psych dr on board and well done for supporting your husband through this.  To make life easier for you both, you could reduce more slowly - say .0625mg at a time, it may make your withdrawal a little easier.  Or even look at liquid titration, that seems better for some.  The good news is that you're on a relatively low dose so you won't have an extra long taper.

 

Just a little warning, cannabis and benzos aren't a good mix.  I know you take it for medical reasons, but it might be worth talking this through with your dr.

 

I know that he's still there.  He believes that he isn't.

 

I can't reliably split 0.5mg tablets into eighths.  Quarters, I can do.  Eighths, not so much.  I don't think liquid titration is an amazingly wonderful idea, either, due to my inability to wake up in the morning.

 

Cannabis and benzos aren't precisely a good mix, but I have been talking with my doctor about this, and he is cautiously okay with it.  He wants to transition me to something other than cannabis+benzos -- right now, we're trying mirtazapine to help with the anxiety and to reduce the nausea that I often get when I try to eat.  He is aware, though, that home life is very tumultuous, and that I'm taking THC partly as a way to cushion the impact of it; he's also okay with this, since I am legitimately (under California law) taking THC for the purpose for which a licensed physician recommended it to me: anxiety.

 

The biggest problem with this withdrawal pattern, aside from the fact that Skee is being taken off of benzos too quickly (and his doctor doesn't believe that benzo/z-class cross-tolerance exists), is that our entire patterns of life have been disrupted by the additional medications that our physicians have put us on.  We used to have sex pretty much every morning.  Now, I can't even wake up when he gets out of bed.  This morning, I woke up to him giving me a quick kiss... and I wanted to give him a hug, but was too slow.

 

For those who take/have taken mirtazapine(Remeron), what's the best time to take it?  My doc has it 'qhs', but it takes several hours after I take it to be able to sleep.

I cut my tabs into eights for the final three months of my taper - I was taking four doses spread through the day.  Not the usual I know, but it worked for me and made it easier to take one dose out at a time.  I know the eighths weren't accurate but even sometimes the quarters didn't cut correctly either.

 

It's probably not only the other medications that are disrupting your lives, benzos do a real number of relationships.  Hang in there you will get it all back with time.

 

Would be great if you could get your husband in with your dr - a slow taper is usually the best option and your dr seems to understand more about benzos than Skee's does.

Hi Skee and Skeewolf

It's a drive up here from Santa Clara but I found this DR on this board and on another Benzo Doc site and he is GREAT.  I see him every 6-8 weeks and it may be worthwhile for Skee to get another Doc on board as he is struggling.  Maybe he will do phone call ins after your first meeting so you can avoid the trip.  I think the office visits run about 100.00 plus any medications and he usually spents 45 minutes with me.  I don't have insurance so.....

 

Dr. Peter V. Madill, MD

1020 Gravenstein Avenue

Sebastopol, CA 95472-4570

              (707) 823-3312 

 

Can't say enough about how glad I am that I found him.  He is totally open to me tapering at a rate I can tolerate...(which isn't much these days) and very compassionate and supportive.

 

 

Hang in there you have found a great place for support!

Mimi

I cut my tabs into eights for the final three months of my taper - I was taking four doses spread through the day.  Not the usual I know, but it worked for me and made it easier to take one dose out at a time.  I know the eighths weren't accurate but even sometimes the quarters didn't cut correctly either.

 

Yeah, I know that one.  Skee watched me prepare my 3/4 of a tablet dose last night and ironically laughed at it.  "You're on NOTHING, and your doctor's letting you go down by 1/8th milligram increments.  I'm on LOTS, and my doctor's forcing me down by half-milligram increments."

 

It's probably not only the other medications that are disrupting your lives, benzos do a real number of relationships.  Hang in there you will get it all back with time.

 

Benzos do a real number on relationships, this is true.  So do Adderall, marijuana, antidepressants, and antipsychotics.  Risperdal is damaging Skee in many more ways than benzos, Adderall, and marijuana together ever have.  (it's turned him from a sexual creature into an asexual one, it's caused him to pull away from me, it's destroyed his self-identity... but it's also allowing him, at least, to work.  and I don't know how to navigate these waters. )

 

Would be great if you could get your husband in with your dr - a slow taper is usually the best option and your dr seems to understand more about benzos than Skee's does.

 

I'm doing my best.  I'm not sure that I can, and I'm not sure that my doctor will consent to treating both of us -- but I'm trying.  As for my doc understanding more about benzo-tapering, I don't really know how or why this is the case since my doctor's younger than Skee's.

 

Hi Skee and Skeewolf

It's a drive up here from Santa Clara but I found this DR on this board and on another Benzo Doc site and he is GREAT.  I see him every 6-8 weeks and it may be worthwhile for Skee to get another Doc on board as he is struggling.  Maybe he will do phone call ins after your first meeting so you can avoid the trip.  I think the office visits run about 100.00 plus any medications and he usually spents 45 minutes with me.  I don't have insurance so.....

 

Dr. Peter V. Madill, MD

1020 Gravenstein Avenue

Sebastopol, CA 95472-4570

              (707) 823-3312 

 

Can't say enough about how glad I am that I found him.  He is totally open to me tapering at a rate I can tolerate...(which isn't much these days) and very compassionate and supportive.

 

mtmimi, thank you for the reference -- and I hope that he'll appreciate the reference, too. :X

 

And everyone... thank you.  This is the most fucked-up situation that I can think of.  (to be honest, on a scale of 1 to 10, this would be an 11, and so has set the new mark for 10. )

 

-skeewolf

You're right about re-assessing the tolerance scale - 11 is definitely the new high for me too!  Benzo w/d is by far the hardest thing I've every had to cope with by a long, long stretch. 

You're right about re-assessing the tolerance scale - 11 is definitely the new high for me too!   Benzo w/d is by far the hardest thing I've every had to cope with by a long, long stretch. 

 

Acute and chronic benzo withdrawal plus an antipsychotic minus anything to handle rebound anxiety plus Adderall (ADHD) and Wellbutrin (also for ADHD) plus depersonalization plus lack of self-identity plus lack of sex drive when he's always been a sexual creature plus abject terror that my desire to taper is going to lead me to make horrible medical decisions for him... that's what Skee's coping with.

 

Having a spouse going through acute and chronic benzo withdrawal plus an antipsychotic leading to minus sex and minus intimacy and minus all the things that I most loved about spending time with him plus holding his Medical Power of Attorney plus his rebound anxiety plus Adderall and Wellbutrin... while trying to maintain my own sanity in the absence of being able to do much to help my own anxiety, and wanting to taper my own dosage if I can... that's what I'm coping with.

 

I'm almost glad this board doesn't allow expletives.  This message would be full of them.  I'm just... I'm scared.  and it takes a lot for me to admit that.

 

I've printed out the Ashton Manual, and will be handing it to Skee's psych in a couple hours.  We'll see what comes of it.  (If I fire him, I'm going to post his information so that others can avoid him.  If he actually starts to understand what he's dealing with, and why his trying to force Skee down is a bad idea, I'm willing to work with him -- but I cannot allow any further damage to Skee or to his and my relationship.)

How are you guys doing?

 

Patty  xo

How are you guys doing?

 

Patty  xo

 

Thanks for asking.

 

I'm alright.  I've adjusted my dose of mirtazapine to 22.5mg, and it's still making it really difficult to wake up even for such things as needing to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.  Still on the 0.5/0.325 clonazepam, the 200/100 bupropion SR, and the THC.

 

I gave a copy of a printout of the Ashton Manual to Skee's psych, knowing that it probably wasn't going to do any instant good (it didn't).  I hope he reads and understands it -- but it's no skin off of our noses if he doesn't... cuz Skee's psych dropped him before I had a chance to fire him.  That's okay, though. I got in touch with the doctor's office that mtmimi recommended earlier in this thread (thank you again, mtmimi!!!!!!!!!!!) and made him an appointment.

 

The conversation went something like this:

 

"Doctor Madill's office, [receptionist] speaking, how can I help you?"

"Hi... my name is Kyle H[...], and I'm trying to find a doctor who can help my husband come off of high amounts of benzodiazapenes without destroying his life.  His psychiatrist just dropped him, and I'm running ragged."

"Well, Doctor Cahill can definitely help, he sees a lot of patients who are trying to come off of benzos.  He uses the "Ashton method", I don't know if you've heard of it?"

 

I think I began babbling at this point.  I know I pretty much started streaming 'thankyouthankyou' for a few moments.  Long story short: Two weeks from now, Skee's got an appointment.  Even if it's a 2-hour drive there, an hour consultation, and another 2-hour drive back... one workday essentially lost is an infinitesimal price to pay for keeping the rest of his work, home, and mental health lives intact.  

 

So.  Skee's got enough clonazepam to sustain him at 3mg/day until then.  He's also stopped taking the risperidone.

 

and this morning I told him "I love you," as he was about to walk out the door for work.  He paused, grinned, and said, "I love you too," before departing.

 

So.  We're not out of the woods, but we've found a clearing that even has a nice-looking path leading out.  and I have absolutely no idea how to say how relieved I am.  (the fact that my eyes are leaking tears as I write this... I can relax, for a little while, rest and tend my wounds, and get ready for the next battle.)

 

Thank you, everyone, for being here.

 

-skeewolf (Kyle H)

 

(edited cuz I got the name wrong... damned benzos corrupting my memory, requiring an fsck...)

Hi Skee and Skeewolf...

I had to chuckle when I read your experience with Calling Dr Madill's office... Sounded JUST like me.  I was fairly hysterical and incoherent and Cindy his wife keep reassuring me that they would be there for me 24/7...and they have been.  What a difference from my other 2 Dr experiences where they assured me what I was feeling was ALL in my mind as I COULD NOT be dependent...blah blah blah.  What relief to find the support we need to find our way off off this frightening painful path.

 

I also am really enjoying the positive supportive community of this forum.  Really the best I have found on the web.  I have stayed away from most forums since I started tapering as I was just too scared but now that I have my "sea legs" I am more confident in connecting with others.

 

And it sure feels good to "pay it forward".  I would NEVER be where I am without the internet and the wisdom learned and passed on by those that have walked this path before me!

 

Glad you are both able to feel some love.

 

Hang in there...help is on the way!

Mimi

 

 

 

 

Dr. Peter V. Madill, MD

1020 Gravenstein Avenue

Sebastopol, CA 95472-4570

              (707) 823-3312   

 

 

 

Hi mimi,

 

 

This doc sounds great and glad you found him. He's in my backyard!

 

I'm just curious where on this forum you found his name. Do you remember? Did someone recommend him. 

Wow skeewolf, I'm so happy for you and skee that you've found a benzo aware dr.  I know this will be a turning point for you both.

 

I can understand your excitement - reminds me of when I googled in desperation one day "how to get off clonazpeman" and the first site that came up was a support group in my local area.  When I had my first meeting with the counselors (benzo survivors themselves), the relief that I'd found people who understood and could guide me through this process was immense.  The also use the Ashton method.

 

Good luck to you both.  Can't wait to hear how the first appointment goes.

Hi Eljay

I found Dr earlier (can't find) and also here and also on another site with Benzo Doc referrals.  

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=15833.msg267282#msg267282

 

While I am eternally grateful for his support...I still consider myself "captain of my ship" and made sure he would let me determine the rate of my taper before I signed on with him.  While he was already recommending daily cuts as opposed to dry cutting he is always seeking new info and tips to make w/d easier.   Although his intial cut rate was WAY too fast for me and I had to cut it in half...I think it was ok as you never know if you don't give it a try!!

 

I continually print out and give him "my" recommendations and research on the Benzo nightmare at every office visit.  For instance I don't believe one should taper when SX become severe.  I believe in holding your dose and reconsider what might have triggered and if all other options run out....reduce taper rate.  I understand some people are in tolerance (toxic) and just need to get off and let things heal but hopefully those folks are in the minority.  

 

I was willing to drive to Los Angeles or Seattle to find me the right Dr.  You can imagine my delight in finding him in the next town!

 

Mimi