Remeron (Mirtzapine)

Well folks I caved I was benzo free and ssri free.  Taking nothing for a long time.  Well my world came crashing in over the summer and I suffered until about a month ago.  It started with slight anxiety then rose to panic attacks then led to insomnia then led to slight paranoia from sleep deprivation.  Which then led to constant brooding over thoughts and full blown generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  I have suffered from "brain zaps" ever since coming off of the Zoloft a year ago.  Which I think has led to all of this.  I needed to be on some type of medication unfortunately. It was just beating me down.  So I was prescribed Remeron.  Which is an anti depressant and is widely used for insomnia.  I was wondering if anyone on here uses has used it or has any info on it.  All is appreciated.  So far it is working on my insomnia (very Helpfull), but it causes significant weight gain.  That's the biggest disappointing side effect.

 

thanks,

CLICK

clickclack20-

 

I was on Remeron from 8/2001-2/2002. It did cause weight gain for me. I went from 95lbs to 120lbs(I am 5' 1"). It did knock me out at 7.5mg and 15mg, never went higher in dose. Here is a link on the medication:

 

http://www.medicinenet.com/mirtazapine/article.htm

 

You can also check webmd.com for any information, talk with your pharmacist and/or doctor and read the literature that comes with all meds.

 

Just Breathe

ya i've been on it for about a month.  the weight gain is brutal I have to see what I'm up to.  I go to the doc tomorrow.  I'll get weighed there.  I had no choice in going on something.  My insomnia was horrible causing all sorts of issues.  But I know that not going to the gym is not helping either (with the weight).  But other than than the weight gain was it hard for you to discontinue?  I've read some mixed reaction. 

clickclack20-

 

It was along time ago; from what I remember I tapered off 15mg's in three weeks by reducing to 7.5mg's and then just stopping. I did have insomnia during that taper. I had the typical w/d symptoms from A/D's:

 

brain zaps

nausea

feeling off

 

These lasted for about 2-3 weeks then I was hit with a month of severe nausea and no sleep; surprisingly during this month I lost 12lbs. I also quit smoking so something good did come out of it. Things did eventually level off and I have never been on an A/D since.

 

JB

cool thanks for all the info.  I'm actually coming off of it as of yesterday.  I was on 7'5 mostly throughout the last month here so I cut the 7.5 in half yesterday.  So I'll be taking 3.75 and going down from here.  Hopefully it won't be to bad since I've only been on it a month.

 

cool thanks for all the info.  I'm actually coming off of it as of yesterday.  I was on 7'5 mostly throughout the last month here so I cut the 7.5 in half yesterday.  So I'll be taking 3.75 and going down from here.  Hopefully it won't be to bad since I've only been on it a month.

 

 

clickclack-

 

Just take it slow anyways, okay? A month is long enough for the medication to be in your system. I think you will be just fine, especially knowing what the process may be like...it may also, be the opposite and that would be great. Check back so I know how it goes and Happy Holidays!

 

JB

Just Breathe,

 

  Did you eat more when you were on it or did you just put the weight on without any change in your diet?  Did you have trouble urinating or constipation or dry mouth?

Well folks I caved I was benzo free and ssri free.  Taking nothing for a long time.  Well my world came crashing in over the summer and I suffered until about a month ago.  It started with slight anxiety then rose to panic attacks then led to insomnia then led to slight paranoia from sleep deprivation.  Which then led to constant brooding over thoughts and full blown generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  I have suffered from "brain zaps" ever since coming off of the Zoloft a year ago.  Which I think has led to all of this.  I needed to be on some type of medication unfortunately. It was just beating me down.  So I was prescribed Remeron.  Which is an anti depressant and is widely used for insomnia.  I was wondering if anyone on here uses has used it or has any info on it.  All is appreciated.  So far it is working on my insomnia (very Helpfull), but it causes significant weight gain.  That's the biggest disappointing side effect.

 

thanks,

CLICK

 

Remeron for 14 years here.

 

Sure, Remeron can work, but it can also fail you. And it often doesn't work right away. It really depends how serious your insomnia is and if you have any other stressors in your life. If you've been on it for a few years, it most likely will not help you whatsoever for benzo withdrawal. You didn't say you're on benzos now, but since this is a benzo forum I thought I'd include that.

 

Getting off of remeron is very, very, very hard.  I've tapered both clonazepam and remeron before. Remeron is just as insidious, but less distressing at first.  The main withdrawal symptoms of remeron is stomach pain and insomnia.  Some people experience more serious acute withdrawal like vomiting etc. but lots of people don't experience anything until 1 - 3 weeks after quitting. That's when the stomach pain starts, and it can last for a very, very, very long time (read peoples experiences online). The insomnia is like any other drug.  Unless you have something else to cover it, you will suffer quite a lot.

 

If you can sleep at all without it. I mean like, a good 5 hours a night or something.  With all my love I say this, try to let your body heal itself. It is not worth being trapped on remeron for that level of insomnia. If you have total insomnia (No sleep for days on end) then this CAN work for you, but if you have that kind of insomnia, it can ALSO fail you. And stop working.

 

If you have 'don't sleep for days' insomnia and you know what triggered it, you've got to solve that as quick as possible, don't rely on remeron for very long if you can help it. This is one of those drugs that the longer you are on it, the more likely you are to have super, duper, long withdrawals. And also the sedating effect eventually wears off for most people. Sometimes it can last for years and then suddenly stop working. It's horrible like that.

 

Sorry, wish I could tell you better news.

 

The weight gain is actually easy to manage. You have to manage it as fast as you can though.  Count your calories. The main weight gain of remeron is that you will always feel some level of food craving. This craving CAN and should be ignored. It's not hunger, it's just craving.  Remeron also slows your metabolism so if you are on benzo's, know that a cut to remeron is a cut to your benzo or any other drug you are on as well.  Remeron is similar to seroquel in this respect.

 

Hope this helps. Of course other voices will have their opinions too. I hope whatever is right is what happens for you. 

But what if you only need two years to use it to get off Valium?  Would that work then?  Then you could taper off the Remeron.

But what if you only need two years to use it to get off Valium?  Would that work then?  Then you could taper off the Remeron.

 

It's waaaay easier to taper off valium by itself, then to be addicted to remeron.  Remeron is harder, in some ways, then a benzo to get off of.  Two years? ... I don't know. That's a long time.  I'm afraid I don't have experience quitting it after two years. I've been on it for 14.

 

But I DO know benzos, extremely well. 20 years experience there, on Clonaz, the closet cousin to valium, its 20 times more powerful and the second longest lasting.  You can taper your valium EXTREMELY slow, and not need anything else.  If you're getting 4 - 6 hours of sleep, do NOT be afraid.  If you're getting entire nights with no sleep, in a row. THEN you've got a problem. And that problem is bigger than Remeron can really handle properly. 

 

Remeron can seem like a miracle once it starts working but very few people realize how extremely long it's withdrawals are. With a benzo, if you slow taper it, once the withdrawals are over, they are OVER.  With remeron, they don't even begin until 1 - 3 weeks.  Each one of these drugs is so unique, they all need special techniques to get off of them, and remeron is less understood.  At least with a benzo you have all these people who can help.  Read a remeron forum. I haven't found anyone who has solved the stomach problem issue. Even a slow taper is not a guarantee.

 

And remeron withdrawal is VERY random person by person.  Some people experience nothing. Other's experience the full anti-depressant carnival, brain zaps and vomitting, etc. etc. but as with most drugs, it's the LONG term withdrawal effects that grab you if you're on it for too long. These are insomnia (a big deal) and stomach pains (also a big deal.) And the withdrawals for the stomach pains, if you get them, are protracted.  You can read account after account of people suffering stomach problems for months and even years after. It's scary stuff.

 

I'm not saying this to scare you or anybody but because if I knew this waaaaay back when I started on it, I might have not been stuck on yet another drug.

 

I think the main reason why I want to say this though, is that Remeron is famous for failing you. It can work perfectly fine for some unknown amount of time, then suddenly fail you. It will not help you sleep.  Out of no where.  And now you still have to keep taking it to avoid remeron withdrawals.

 

So I personally never advocate another drug to quit a drug.  If at all possible, quit your drug, by using your drug.  I think it's the easiest on your body to re-adjust and heal if it can happen slowly and it only has to deal with one brain-affecting drug.  This is just my personal experience and opinion though. 

 

I hope whatever you do, that it's the right thing, and the best thing, and I hope I didn't say anything wrong. Honest. Don't take just one opinion. Research and study your drugs big time. And don't let my experience tint your glasses either, maybe you'll read many accounts or find some new research, that gives you an even better understanding than I have. 

But what if you only need two years to use it to get off Valium?  Would that work then?  Then you could taper off the Remeron.

  You can read account after account of people suffering stomach problems for months and even years after. It's scary stuff.

 

 

Just wondering what stomach problems exactly are you talking about?    I just wanna know what to look out for myself.  Thanks

I appreciate your imput Tman.  I am also allergic to dyes ......like anaphylactic  shock FIVE times.  Once was the outside coating on an Aspirin.  Had to go to ER to get epinephrine shots so I would not die.  I looked up all these ADs and tricyclic ADs and they all have dyes in them and other stuff.  It also mentions how it can harm the kidneys and liver in the elderly as well.  And yes, I read about the stomach issues.  Not good.  But when it gets really bad at the lower doses, what can I do?  Scares me to be honest.  Even Ashton suggested a tricyclic AD for the lower doses to help get off completely.  But I agree, at my age and my sensitivities, it's not a good mix.  I'm doing OK at 5% but I am losing sleep.  I am hoping and praying as I taper off more that this will pass. 

 

  Thanks again, BB needs people like you in here helping us.

But what if you only need two years to use it to get off Valium?  Would that work then?  Then you could taper off the Remeron.

  You can read account after account of people suffering stomach problems for months and even years after. It's scary stuff.

 

 

Just wondering what stomach problems exactly are you talking about?    I just wanna know what to look out for myself.  Thanks

 

Don't spook yourself if you have anxiety you can get minor stomach problems from that too during withdrawal.  It's actually kind of hard for me to remember exactly what I felt, but I'm positive you won't be able to mistake the remeron stomach pain. 

 

I do remember feeling a pain kind of like hunger, but REAL hunger, not craving, like, HUNGER hunger, to the point of pain, but I don't know if that was a part of the longer lasting kind, stomach cramps are also possible. Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful.  I've had to reinstate a few times, and at least once or twice it was from the stomach pain that starts around 1 - 3 weeks, and another time my stomach was relatively okay (I think I slow tapered? Not sure) but the insomnia got me.  I really really wish I could be more helpful, but I've been on it for 14 years and only tried to quit a small handful of times.

 

I'm going to try and quit it again if I can get my clonaz back under wraps.

 

Just take your time, it's not an attack like a sudden or acute withdrawal, it builds, you will have lots of warning.  If you're one of the unlucky people who gets acute withdrawal (like actual nausea and stuff) that is not it. What you're looking for is what starts later on. Up to three weeks later.  You may not know what's going on the first week or so if you get acute withdrawals.

 

I'm extremely lucky in that remeron never gives me acute withdrawals.  MAYBE mild anxiety? Or something practically undetectable.  I've been through benzo withdrawals, and nicotine, and the first 1 - 3 weeks of remeron withdrawals hardly even register for me. 

 

Remeron is a very random drug.  Just take your time, be careful, research and study. Watch your body, but try not to be hypochondriac about it. I pray the best for you in Jesus' Name, man. 

 

I appreciate your imput Tman.  I am also allergic to dyes ......like anaphylactic  shock FIVE times.  Once was the outside coating on an Aspirin.  Had to go to ER to get epinephrine shots so I would not die.  I looked up all these ADs and tricyclic ADs and they all have dyes in them and other stuff.  It also mentions how it can harm the kidneys and liver in the elderly as well.  And yes, I read about the stomach issues.  Not good.  But when it gets really bad at the lower doses, what can I do?  Scares me to be honest.  Even Ashton suggested a tricyclic AD for the lower doses to help get off completely.  But I agree, at my age and my sensitivities, it's not a good mix.  I'm doing OK at 5% but I am losing sleep.  I am hoping and praying as I taper off more that this will pass. 

 

  Thanks again, BB needs people like you in here helping us.

 

EDIT: Sorry I thought you were talking about Remeron. For your valium the advice is similar though.  The bottom stuff will mostly apply to valium because it's also long lasting, except unlike remeron you won't be able to play with the numbers on a benzo.  Be VERY steady. So for valium, Taper, hold for at least 3 weeks before next taper.  If a cut is hard but not TOO hard (like you can wait it out a week) just hold for longer.  Take a cutting break, stay where you're at for a month or two if you have to before you cut again.  If a cut IS too hard and you need to live life, go back up to where you were, take a slightly higher dose than where you were for a day or two so your blood levels go back up faster, then go back down to where you were before the cut, and stay there for a while to stabilize, putting your taper on hold, then when you go to cut it again, do a smaller one than last time. Don't quit quitting.

 

Also, Diaz is so long lasting you can also probably get away with alternating days when you're down to really small doses.  Take a dose one day, take no dose the next day. If you're low enough, you probably won't feel it. And if you don't feel it, that's a sign that you can start considering jumping off.  Don't be afraid to jump off and fail, when you're super low.  The advice is the exact same as before. If you jump off at a super low dose, and can't handle it in a few days, just go back on. Take a slightly higher dose than where you jumped off to get it back to blood levels for a few days, then hold it for a while, to stabilize (3 weeks is always a safe number, but you might want to give yourself a longer break, or try 4 weeks) and then just try again, doing something even slower.  Or a smaller cut. Etc.  But with long-acting benzo, this shouldn't be a problem. Your last cut, from whatever to zero, if you go slow, it's possible you might not even feel it.

 

If you wish to follow the Ashton and trust it, that's fine too.  Just do your research and no matter what happens I pray you all the best, in Jesus's Name.

 

Below is the advice I would have given you if you meant Remeron, just in case I was wrong about which drug you were asking about.  It has similar advice, but not the same.

 

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Hope, the best thing you can do is hold.  Remeron has a super long half-life. Also remember, any other drugs you are on that are addicting are ALSO being cut, when you cut Remeron. So sometimes you have to work on those first, or alternatively you can just take it even slower with the rems.  But this advice should still stand true: if you're having a difficult cut, put it on hold for a while.  When I got low on clonaz, sometimes I would take a month or two off, before making another cut.

 

If a cut is too much and you can't handle life, there is NO shame in going back up and trying an even smaller cut.  Don't quit quitting, and don't feel discouraged. It's SO normal to fail a few times. You never REALLY fail, if you are determined to keep trying. 

 

Remeron is so long lasting that you can probably even go to alternating days towards the end, instead of cutting the pill down further. 

 

Also, going back up to where you were last 'okay' will take a while, a few days, before you feel it because it needs to accumulate in your blood, alternately you can take a slightly extra high dose once or twice to get it back up in your blood levels  faster.  You should know at what MG the remeron is stimulating instead of sedating for your body though.  In that case, don't do the 'going extra high for day or two' trick to get back to normal faster.  Because you're taking it for insomnia.

 

Everyone is different.  I've read the older you are, possibly the lower the dose for this stimulating effect. For me personally, 30mgs is the most sedating, some literature says 7.5 - 15 is the most sedating, that might be more common.  But if you've been taking it for a while, you'll figure out that number fast.

 

The good thing about Remeron is you can play with it.  If you take a cut for a single day, it will almost never have an effect.  Like if you dropped from 30 to 15 in a single day, you probably won't miss a beat.  It's not uncommon to be able to completely stop remeron, and still sleep a night or two before your body feels anything. But I don't advice playing that hard.  But trying a single lower dose in a week? Way more likely to get away with it.

 

So for example if you're taking 30, and want to see if 15mg is more sedating, you can try it a single night. You should be able to feel the difference.  Then go back to 30 the next day so you don't incur withdrawals.  If you're taking 15mg, you can cut to 7.5mg for a single night, and see if that's more sedating. And same as before, go back up when you've tried your experiment.

 

When you find out what this dosage is, then you'll know what MG never to go above, once you get down to that sweet-spot of drowsiness. 

 

If you're having a particularly hard time, just remember. Small cuts.  Hold them for at least 3 - 4 weeks before another cut, and if you feel the need, take a break from cutting.

 

That's the best I can do. I hope you find out what works and that you get the best advice possible. Like I said before - research research research.  Listen to others. And use your best judgement.

It works for sleep but it’s a very different sleep. It wasn’t restful at all. It was like I was knocked out and then revived come morning not feeling refreshed at all. I also had really bad weight gain (30lbs in 2 months) and just adverse effects all around. I tried to stop around 2 months because it wasn’t worth it to me so I did 50% cuts because it hadn’t been that long and the doctor said I could just stop so that seemed more cautious. Withdrawal was brutal. It took me 5 months to taper off it. I lost 35lbs after stopping. The first 20lbs dropped within the first month. It wasn’t fat gain. My body was so inflamed. Also it really had bad GI effects for withdrawal. I ended up in the ER with colitis at the last leg of my taper and jumped off it at .5mg