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Hello,

My name is Bob. I am 73 yrs old, and have been taking Librium for over 40 years, originally prescribed for panic attacks that were very debillitating. I feel that Librium gave me 40 years of "liberation" that would not have been achieved by any other means...it was apparently the only drug effective for use at the time.??

(Counseling did not help.)

My drug provider is now alerting my doctor that at my age, it is dangerous to use Librium, and I must stop. I have been at 15mg/day for quite a few years, and my current doctor advised going to 10/day at first. After about 10 days I started having very uncomfortable symptoms, the worst was high blood pressure, as high as 188/104.

I would like to find a doctor in Arizona that is knowledgeable about Librium but am having a hard time. I need support, and hope that this venue can help me.

Bob

Thanks so much.

How do I post a message or a questio?

Hi, Bob, and welcome to BenzoBuddies.    You will find a lot of good information and support here.  I kicked a 20 year ativan (lorazepam) habit last year and feel better than I did when I was still on the drug.

 

What kind of uncomfortable symptoms did you experience when you dropped to 10mg?  Do you take it just 1/day or do you divide your dose up during the day? If only 1/day, some of the problem may be interdose withdrawal.   Do you think that your doctor would listen if you went to him with a plan to get slowly off the Librium?  You are not on a very high amount so even tapering slowly it shouldn't take terribly long.  

If you, like most of us, have a problem managing anxiety, you might want to check out the Anxiety board:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=58.0

 

Check out some of the information and resources here and post your questions here (click on the Reply tab).  People pop in and out all the time so someone is bound to be able to answer most anything you ask.  We all have opinions and experiences to share and some will be relevant to your situation.  Here's a link to information about withdrawal methods from the top of the page:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods

 

 

Dear Bob

 

Welcome to Benzo Buddies.  You can post here if you wish and somebody will stop by and answer whatever questions you have.  Probably several somebodies, so be prepared for a variety of answers.  If you wish to post in another area go to that area and you will find a "New Topic" tab at the bottom of the page.  Click on it and fill in the boxes.  Then click "Post"

 

Many folks here have been tapering by cutting 10% every 7-10 days.  Is that the sort of thing you had in mind?

 

ntw

hey bob,

I'm sorry to hear that after all these years you have to start facing this challenge. 

You may have known that the day might come, I suspect.

 

The link below is to a site with a great deal of information on benzodiazepines and the withdrawal process.

 

Benzo.org.uk

 

The Ashton materials and Manual are very helpful by providing you with research information from a source that

spent many years dealing with patients with these problems, and many successes. 

This information can help calm your concerns to some degree, and offer methods of withdrawal that can be tolerated.

Unfortunately, it seems that most doctors aren't aware of it, and often think we can stop these meds at the drop of a hat.

My doctor did not prepare me, and I also got hypertension and B/P problems like your own, along with an array of other problems.

But I hope it will encourage you to know that day by day I am improving, and I hope to be over this problem soon.

 

I think you will find many caring folks here at Benzobuddies, and they will give you a great deal of support during your withdrawal.

 

Your friend,

David

Hi Bob,

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

 

Who do you mean by "drug provider"?

I'm not sure I know how to respond to individual messages yet, but thank all of you for the kind words of encouragement.

Answers to some questions posed:

When I went to 10 mg, I did 5mg 2X/day.

What I meant by "drug provider" was Right Source, the provider covered by my insurance.

I have tried to get off several times over the years, but never had Dr. involvement. The results were terrible, since I tried to "just quit". Now I would love to find a doctor in the Pheonix area who has some knowledge  of what is involved.

Question for the person who said they also had BP issues: is there a safe BP drug that can be  used during W/D? I am at present taking Diovan and a water pill. (This is why I would like to find a doctor who knows what all of the issues are.)

BTW, my prior doctor at the Mayo responded to Right Sources' input that this has worked for all of these years, why change now?........

            Hello Bob, I Just wondered if the Libriam has given you any side effects, my mum is 77 and has had to taper off of her sleeping pill zopiclone [benzo like ] as it was aking her so dizzy we were scared she was going to have a fall, she is down to her last quarter of a tablet now, it hasn't been easy for her but she says she feels much less dizzy, just thought this might give you some hope,  i wish you all the best     

I do not know if I have side affects while on librium since I have been taking it so long. If the pharmacy provider had not contacted my family physician re problems with librium in older people, I would have happily continued taking it for the rest of my life.

I certainly had withdrawal symptoms when I followed Dr's advice and went from 15 to 10 mg/day! I felt like I had ingested a lot of caffiene ( which I am very sensitive to) and could handle that feeling, I think, but my  BP went up a lot and that scared me. I have since gone back to 15 mg under the advice of a different doctor until I can see my primary doctor and discuss a slowerr tapering plan.

Thanks for the message!

Bob

Bob,

I am no different than you in that I would have still been on the benzo if it had continued to work. 

But please understand that I'm not recommending being on benzo medication... I'm just saying I didn't know the difference, because I wasn't informed,

and that was my own fault.

 

I thought that some people, due to their predisposition to anxiety, may need to take meds, but I didn't understand the consequences.

 

I never had B/P issues until I started having problems with the benzodiazepene I was taking.

When it stopped working, my doctor decided to taper me off, but way too fast, and I felt really bad.

I started having hypertension and high blood pressure right away, either because I was scared to death, or it was actually the

reduction in my benzo medication. I really don't know.

My doctor put me on both a beta blocker and an ace inhibitor at the same time. 

I also had a "heart and artery scan" done since I was having palpitations and a family history of strokes.

 

In this regard, you will certainly need to trust your physician. 

Your doctor may need to try several types of B/P meds to get yours under control. 

I don't know what is "safe", but I have come to understand that almost every medication has side effects.

 

Wikipedia.org is a good place to look up information on meds. 

I don't care for the manufacturer web sites, since they are trying to sell it.

 

I have come to realize that as my tapering process has continued, and I have come to terms (to some degree) with the withdrawal symptoms,

I am not as fearful as I once was, and my B/P has come down.  The B/P meds may have also helped at times, but I am now suspicious of all medications.

 

I have reduced the dosage of the B/P meds from time to time, and at times I have even quit them altogether.

 

The beta blocker seems to help with heart racing/pounding issues that I have from time to time due to withdrawal. 

I usually only take it (beta blocker) if I have that problem, since if it occurs at bedtime, I won't be able to sleep.

 

The ace inhibitor doesn't seem to have many side effects for me, and my wife takes it, with no problems.

 

I will add that if on a given day, I am feeling very bad from withdrawal, my blood pressure will go up, even if I have taken

B/P medication that day.  My only relief has been to take a hot bath, lie down and hopefully get some sleep.

 

Also, the B/P meds have a limited life in your system just like every other drug. 

So, if you took it in the morning, it could be out of your system by evening.

During my withdrawal, if I usually had a certain symptom in the evening, I would plan to take the B/P at that time, if I thought it could help.

 

I hope that this has been helpful, but as you can see, this is all about tailoring your withdrawal process to doing what works best

for you with the least symptoms.

-David

 

bob,

 

You might want to look at : benzodocs.com

 

I has some links (see "Links" at the top of the home page) to doctors around the world, including Arizona (see "Links" at the top of the home page), who have been reported as being knowlegeable about the benzo withdrawal process. 

I would suggest taking a skeptical approach, since my own doctor's office said he was very knowledgeable about this type of thing, and

I didn't find that to be the case, but he is sympathetic, and has been helpful.

 

-David

 

Good morning Bob and welcome to BB

 

I hope your day is a pleasant one.

 

Jan THE KID

This all sounds so scary! Has anyone heard of anybody who has been able to w/d from Benzo's without so much trouble? Does everyone have this much difficulty?

I am going to try tapering at about 5% per, since I don't think I am at tolerance ( but probably close).

hI Bob, please try not to be scared, i know what you mean though, when i first cane here my title was new and petrified, and i was a quivering wreck and i hadn't even tapered hardly any then, once i came here, and the other BBs calmed me down i realized that a lot of what i had thought were w/d syptoms were actually my own fear, now i have settled down to tapering my own way , very slowly and i am doing ok so far with the help from some of the lovely people here, I think your idea to taper 5 per cent, is a great idea,      we have a saying here slow and steady wins the day, I wish you lots of luck , and i will look forward to seeing how you are getting on ,          jewels   

Hi Bob,

 

How are you doing?

 

Pam

To all of you who have given me inputs: THANKS!

I am now skipping (2) 5mg capsules per week; that puts me at a 10% reduction on a weekly basis. Since Librium has such a long half life, I hope that makes sense. I have an apptmt with my regular doc after the first of the year, and am going to share the info I got from benzo.org. It'll be interesting to see what he says. His partner thought it would be wise to add Zoloft if anxiety gets too bad, but from what I read, that is just asking for more trouble.

Best wishes for the New Year! I pray it will be a good one for all of us.

Bob

Hey bob,

I think some people have added A/D's successfully, but my doctor gave me samples, and I have refused

to use them. I don't want to add any more drugs.

 

I am also very skeptical about doctors advice right now. 

It's a funny feeling, not trusting the folks you have trusted all your life. 

And, it's not like I don't want to, I'm afraid to.

 

I think they may be listening to the pharmaceutical companies too much, and not to their patients.

I can hardly go to my doctors office anymore without some salesmen coming in to talk to the staff.

 

Good luck on your taper and have a great New Year!

-David

 

 

 

but understand

that some folks

Hi Bob,

 

Please let us know what your doc has to say. 

 

Patty  xo

To all of you who have given me inputs: THANKS!

I am now skipping (2) 5mg capsules per week; that puts me at a 10% reduction on a weekly basis. Since Librium has such a long half life, I hope that makes sense. I have an apptmt with my regular doc after the first of the year, and am going to share the info I got from benzo.org. It'll be interesting to see what he says. His partner thought it would be wise to add Zoloft if anxiety gets too bad, but from what I read, that is just asking for more trouble.

Best wishes for the New Year! I pray it will be a good one for all of us.

Bob

Hi Bob happy new year to you, I am a bit worried about how fast it looks like you are tapering, from what you say you are tapering 2 5mg capsules a week, that is 10mg a week, you were on 40mg , i am not very good at maths but i asked my partner and he said this is 25 % , forgive me if i have misunderstood what you mean, just a bit concerned,  good luck with your doc appointment                best wishes from jewels   

Hi Jewels,

Thanks so much for your concern! I was not clear enuf....my starting point was 15mg/day: 5mg am and 10mg pm. That is 105 mg/week, so cutting 10 mg /week is  10% . I had gone ( dr's advice) the first time from 15/day to 10/day, and was OK for about 2 weeks, then BP went way up, and I went back to square 1 and am going to go much slower. I see the dr next week and am taking the benzo.org info to him. Be very interesting to see his response.

The question is...instead of cutting 10% /day, I am cutting 10%/week. Hopefully, the long half life of Librium will smooth this out. I'd appreciate any comments.

Bob

bob,

When I took Librium briefly this past summer, I thought it was working very well for me, and I felt it had good sedative

characteristics.

I was only taking 10mg once at bedtime, as I recall. 

 

But one evening I had a paradoxical reaction immediately after taking it, with really bad heart pounding, and it scared me.

At that point, I started to read up, and asked my doctor for Diazpm.  Subsequently, I have also had paradoxical reactions

even to Diazepam at times, but I am now more prepared to deal with such problems.

 

I believe that Librium is only available as a capsule form, and at the time I was not aware of titration methods.

It seemed that the availability of Diazpm in a 2mg pill format would be an advantage to withdrawal.

 

I believe that both have long half lives, and therefore will stay in your system a long time.

I read somewhere that it's 20-50 hours for Diazpm, but for me I think it's closer to the 20, due to what seems to be my rather fast metabolism.

-David

Hi Jewels,

Thanks so much for your concern! I was not clear enuf....my starting point was 15mg/day: 5mg am and 10mg pm. That is 105 mg/week, so cutting 10 mg /week is  10% . I had gone ( dr's advice) the first time from 15/day to 10/day, and was OK for about 2 weeks, then BP went way up, and I went back to square 1 and am going to go much slower. I see the dr next week and am taking the benzo.org info to him. Be very interesting to see his response.

The question is...instead of cutting 10% /day, I am cutting 10%/week. Hopefully, the long half life of Librium will smooth this out. I'd appreciate any comments.

Bob

Hi Bob, i can see now there has been a misunderstanding, first of all i a sorry fer saying you were on 40mg when it is 15mg,        the thing is i believe the 10 % is to be taken off your daily amount not your weekly amount, so as you are on 15mg a day you would take a 10 % cut off of that for 7-14 days, so you should be on 13. 5mg for a week or 2 depending on how you feel, i know this is all very confusing, and i am hoping someone more experianced with tapering , will come along soon to help you with how to manage the cuts,  i hope this makes sense      jewels     

Bob, I also had a blood pressure problem as soon as I started withdrawal. I was given Lisinopril and told to take it as soon as I left the office. It was dangerously high for me...and the Dr told me it might help with the heart palpitations as well. It's my body reacting to the anxiety...a withdrawal symptom that can make your heart race, give you palpitations and elevate your blood pressure. Before this...my blood pressure had always been on the low side of normal....so I know for me it's withdrawal.

Sharon

Hey Bob,

 

Jewels gave you some pretty good advice on using the 10 percent every 7 to 14 days as a guideline.  The key is fnding a taper rate that works for you.  I know w/d stuff from stinks, I am currently going through it now.  This is my second time through this, I tapered entirely too fast the first time for my body to handle things.  The important thing is to listen to your body, and if things are getting worse, it never hurts to hold a bit, then taper down when you feel a bit better.  Good luck in you taper.  Looking forward to reading about your progress.

 

Tim

WoW!! Great inputs and so much support! 

I have gone 2 weeks now skipping my 5mg pill on Sunday and Wednesday, and am doing OK. BP is average, there are times of tension, but I see that as part of life. I would love to cut 10% per day, but with my starting dosage of 15mg/day (5mg am+10mg pm), I would need to go right to titration, since 5mg is the lowest dose available. Sooo, I am trying 10% /wk. Next, I will cut out another 5mg pill on a weekly basis and see how that goes. I have a dr apptmt Tues, and will ask him if there is a pharmicist who can physically divide the 5mg pills for me.

Thanks to all of you, good luck on your own journeys, and Happy New Year!

Bob