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Professor Dee Mangin: Lecture re "How Good Medicine Can Be Bad For Your Health"


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This is a great lecture by Professor Dee Mangin of University of Otago, (NZ), and McMaster University (Hamilton, Ontario). She covers the issues of over-medication, polypharmacy and medication discontinuation.

 

 

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Excellent presentation, Lap, thanks for sharing!  :thumbsup:

 

I wish I were able to jot down and share here the very many important (startling? somewhat) key points she raises.  She speaks in broad terms but did you notice how often the word "withdrawal" came up?  Very good.

Interesting to note she's also one of the founding members of David Healy's rxisk.org.  Very, very encouraging seeing so many more of these "ethical" lectures taking place in academia.

 

Recommended watching!

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Glad you liked it too, abcd! I actually came upon it after watching a lecture by Dr. David Healy last night. I checked the Rxisk twitter feed a bit too and read a few things there. Yes, agreed...very good.

 

I think I first saw Dr. Mangin in a video that Dr. Peter Goetzsche was in. She obviously travels in the circles with the docs who are asking the tough questions and trying to make positive changes in the field of medicine. I have so much respect for these people. They're challenging the status quo, and we desperately need them to keep speaking up and to speak even louder.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
This lecture reveals the real reasons why health care costs have gone through the ceiling.  I recently went to a primary care doctor to discuss the results of a general blood test.  My cholesterol levels were high.  He immediately recommended a statin drug.  There was no discussion whatsoever of WHY my cholesterol levels where high.  If he had read my profile he would have known that I am taking a steroid for an autoimmune disease and that a side effect of that steroid is increased cholesterol levels.  Previous to this, in my initial meeting with this doctor, I shared with him that I am currently tapering off Lorazepam.  His reaction to this revelation was a suggestion that I start taking Buspar.  Huh?  I was puzzled by this, until I realized later that he immediately concluded that because I had been taking Lorazepam that I must have received a previous diagnosis of an anxiety disorder, therefore Buspar should be prescribed.  Madness.  So begins the process of poly-drugging.  One after the other, after the other.  Medical care is now an illusion.  It doesn't really exist.  A high school graduate could practice primary care medicine, simply by following a chart.
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Unfortunately, Photo, yours is just one story out of millions.  The very sad reality of medicine today, and how so many unsuspecting people land up on this devastating merry-go-round.  Madness for sure!

 

You might find this lecture interesting too.  All baby steps in the right direction.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=163762.0#new

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I'm not sure how it works where you are, but can you find a doctor who's more to your liking? It's sounds like a bad fit.

Yes, Lapis, I can probably find a better fit if I shop around.  But this knee-jerk, menu-driven, prescription-pad model of primary care practice is everywhere now.  The opening graphic in Prof. Mangin's lecture, showing King Charles' doctors in the process of killing the poor man, was right on.  That was state-of-the-art.  In a hundred years, people will be laughing at our doctors too.  "HAHA look, they gave people something called a "benzo," worse than heroin.  HAHA!!  Fools..."

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Ugh. Geez, I do hope people will look back at this time and wonder what the heck was going on. Maybe it will be a bit like looking back at using leeches to blood-let! I'm appalled, too, at the way patients with mental illness have been treated historically. There's been so much unethical treatment and very little understanding of what can actually help people. However, I believe there was a time when psychiatrists actually spent time TALKING to patients and doing therapy, albeit of the Freudian type. But now it's all about the medications.

 

In your case, it sounds like all of these prescriptions are coming from your family doctor or general practitioner (at least, that's how we usually refer to them here in Ontario), and not a psychiatrist. If so, I do hope you can find someone who's more open to non-drug methods of treating you. My GP is aware that I prefer NOT to use medications, but he still sometimes offers. He doesn't push, though, which I appreciate. Usually, I'm armed with info and specific questions. Let's face it -- we can do a lot of online research these days and arrive at medical appointments with very specific information and questions. Of course, we shouldn't have to know everything about everything, but I think it's a good idea to be an informed consumer when it comes to health care.

 

Anyway, best of luck, PhotoBug, if you do decide to find a more appropriate doctor for your needs. It's certainly worth a try!

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Ugh. Geez, I do hope people will look back at this time and wonder what the heck was going on. Maybe it will be a bit like looking back at using leeches to blood-let! I'm appalled, too, at the way patients with mental illness have been treated historically. There's been so much unethical treatment and very little understanding of what can actually help people. However, I believe there was a time when psychiatrists actually spent time TALKING to patients and doing therapy, albeit of the Freudian type. But now it's all about the medications.

 

In your case, it sounds like all of these prescriptions are coming from your family doctor or general practitioner (at least, that's how we usually refer to them here in Ontario), and not a psychiatrist. If so, I do hope you can find someone who's more open to non-drug methods of treating you. My GP is aware that I prefer NOT to use medications, but he still sometimes offers. He doesn't push, though, which I appreciate. Usually, I'm armed with info and specific questions. Let's face it -- we can do a lot of online research these days and arrive at medical appointments with very specific information and questions. Of course, we shouldn't have to know everything about everything, but I think it's a good idea to be an informed consumer when it comes to health care.

 

Anyway, best of luck, PhotoBug, if you do decide to find a more appropriate doctor for your needs. It's certainly worth a try!

Lapis, actually no, the compounding prescriptions are coming from a psychiatrist.  The PC quack is another guy altogether.

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Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the statins and Buspar coming as offers from your "primary care" doctor. And you also mentioned steroids, so I'm not sure if they're from a different doctor. If you're also tapering the lorazepam with the help of a psychiatrist, then that's a separate thing.

 

Is there any coordination between the different doctors? Do the specialists communicate with the primary care doctors? Is your pharmacist helpful at all when it comes to ensuring that medications don't interact? Years ago, I had a pharmacist flag a prescription that was questionably prescribed, and I've never forgotten that. He got in touch with the prescribing doctor and informed him of the possible issues with the way the drug was prescribed.

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Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the statins and Buspar coming as offers from your "primary care" doctor. And you also mentioned steroids, so I'm not sure if they're from a different doctor. If you're also tapering the lorazepam with the help of a psychiatrist, then that's a separate thing.

 

Is there any coordination between the different doctors? Do the specialists communicate with the primary care doctors? Is your pharmacist helpful at all when it comes to ensuring that medications don't interact? Years ago, I had a pharmacist flag a prescription that was questionably prescribed, and I've never forgotten that. He got in touch with the prescribing doctor and informed him of the possible issues with the way the drug was prescribed.

Hi Lapis, no, the only coordination between the specialists (neurologist and psychiatrist) with the primary care doc is through me.  I have to coach all three of these nitwits, but getting through it.

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Where I live, the GP refers the patient to the specialists, and the specialists report back to the GP in writing, so s/he becomes the central point for information and care. I stick to one pharmacy so that they can catch any issues between medications. Well, it's supposed to work like that, but the reality is a tad different.

 

As I mentioned, though, I had that great experience with a particular pharmacist years back, and I'm still grateful to him. He's the one I'd like to talk to when I'm better and can go and see him in person. I'll certainly be asking him some pointed questions about benzodiazepines and long-term prescriptions.

 

 

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Says Lapis:  "Where I live, the GP refers the patient to the specialists, and the specialists report back to the GP in writing, so s/he becomes the central point for information and care."

 

Well yes, Lapis, this is the way it should work.  But over the last 20 years I have found (or realized in retrospect) that the PC doctors and specialists I have seen have come up short on knowledge and are heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies both in their education and in their practices.  Also, when I was with Kaiser Permanente (U.S.), it was crystal clear that the PC doctor's primary mission was to avoid creating costs for the company, not to provide care.  So, I've become very, very cynical of the whole system.  It's not what it once was, when you saw a doctor and that doctor was 1) clearly knowledgeable and wise and 2) completely focused on your needs.  This is gone.  So, one falls back on doing his/her own research to ensure that the right things are being done.  I'm fine with that.  We should all be prepared to challenge our doctors.

 

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