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How are you Jeff? I'm off a little over 7 months and doing all right.

 

What's up, Final!!?? I was just logging in today to reach out to see how you've been doing lately. I didn't have enough time yesterday. Anyway, I've been doing so much better. I've been off a handful of months, and I hope to continue getting better. Sleep continues to be a big issue, but I'm sure it'll take a while considering I was putting this k stuff into my body for over 27 years. Patience, right? GI issues can still be a challenge, but I'm going in the right direction. The fun seems to never end, but it will!! I did get a miserable case of Covid. My wife brought it home to me after traveling. She only had it for 5 days and it was no big deal. I got it and was in absolute terror and torture for the first 18 days. Three times to doc, clinic, etc. I'm still fighting fatigue and a few other issues, but I'm hoping for a full recovery soon. Docs said I'll probably be a long-hauler. 'Miserable torture' is the only way to describe what I went through and it was 24/7, no breaks. It's interesting how some people have no issues at all while others get blasted and even die. I prayed for death more than a few times!!! Maybe the taper had something to do with my experience. Enough of that, how's everything going for you? I know you said you're doing alright, but fill me in. I'm lifting you up and hoping for the best :)

 

Oh, Jeff that is horrible that you got hit with COVID and suffered so much. I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience and were that scared.  Who wouldn't be with the symptoms you shared.  I'm going to hold onto the intention that you are going to completely recover.  Please don't take your doctor's work as gospel that you will be a long hauler (I guess you can hear my push back on doctors). I know you know how to care for yourself from tapering and that you will. 

 

Things will get better Jeff, including sleep.  Mine has gotten better since those first few months and now I sleep pretty well.  Still broken up into 3 hours chunks but improving.  I also think it will get deeper, which is what I miss the most-those really deep sleeps where you wake up refreshed.  I believe that's a matter of time. 

 

As far as my update, I just posted one in Benzo celebrations that captures my current experience.  I've posted the link below for you to read.  Overall, I am doing pretty well.  Right now I'm recovering from a small fracture and am wearing a boot, which makes me feel a little stuck in terms of activity.  I'm trying to be patient and just catch up on things in my home and business that need attention.  Tapering sure taught me patience because like you, I tapered for 6 years, with two other meds and a benzo. 

 

You were always a voice of optimism on this thread even though I know it was a long trip to get to the end.  Thanks for that and I'm sending you positive, healing vibes for you continued healing from both COVID and Benzos.

 

Final Healing's Update: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=260501.0

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How are you Jeff? I'm off a little over 7 months and doing all right.

 

What's up, Final!!?? I was just logging in today to reach out to see how you've been doing lately. I didn't have enough time yesterday. Anyway, I've been doing so much better. I've been off a handful of months, and I hope to continue getting better. Sleep continues to be a big issue, but I'm sure it'll take a while considering I was putting this k stuff into my body for over 27 years. Patience, right? GI issues can still be a challenge, but I'm going in the right direction. The fun seems to never end, but it will!! I did get a miserable case of Covid. My wife brought it home to me after traveling. She only had it for 5 days and it was no big deal. I got it and was in absolute terror and torture for the first 18 days. Three times to doc, clinic, etc. I'm still fighting fatigue and a few other issues, but I'm hoping for a full recovery soon. Docs said I'll probably be a long-hauler. 'Miserable torture' is the only way to describe what I went through and it was 24/7, no breaks. It's interesting how some people have no issues at all while others get blasted and even die. I prayed for death more than a few times!!! Maybe the taper had something to do with my experience. Enough of that, how's everything going for you? I know you said you're doing alright, but fill me in. I'm lifting you up and hoping for the best :)

 

Oh, Jeff that is horrible that you got hit with COVID and suffered so much. I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience and were that scared.  Who wouldn't be with the symptoms you shared.  I'm going to hold onto the intention that you are going to completely recover.  Please don't take your doctor's work as gospel that you will be a long hauler (I guess you can hear my push back on doctors). I know you know how to care for yourself from tapering and that you will. 

 

Things will get better Jeff, including sleep.  Mine has gotten better since those first few months and now I sleep pretty well.  Still broken up into 3 hours chunks but improving.  I also think it will get deeper, which is what I miss the most-those really deep sleeps where you wake up refreshed.  I believe that's a matter of time. 

 

As far as my update, I just posted one in Benzo celebrations that captures my current experience.  I've posted the link below for you to read.  Overall, I am doing pretty well.  Right now I'm recovering from a small fracture and am wearing a boot, which makes me feel a little stuck in terms of activity.  I'm trying to be patient and just catch up on things in my home and business that need attention.  Tapering sure taught me patience because like you, I tapered for 6 years, with two other meds and a benzo. 

 

You were always a voice of optimism on this thread even though I know it was a long trip to get to the end.  Thanks for that and I'm sending you positive, healing vibes for you continued healing from both COVID and Benzos.

 

Final Healing's Update: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=260501.0

 

I loved reading your celebration post! Congrats to you, you awesome person. I know things aren't great yet, but you're dang close! Actually, I had forgotten that you had tapered off of several meds. You deserve such a mega congratulations. By the way, you should write a book. I don't say that just because of your experience, but also because you're such a great writer and story teller.  It's a fantastic gift. Anyway, better and better days to you, my friend. You deserve it. Today is the first day of the rest of your life, and I'd say it's gonna be a good one!! Bless you  :)

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Thank you for your words Jeff.

 

I'm am thinking of a book, not about my benzo journey but more about transformation.  What we go through and why,  as human beings is fascinating to me.

 

I am wishing you lots of good days ahead and I look forward to reading your updates and success story.  I know you will continue to take good care of yourself because you deserve it. God bless you too.

 

Final Healing.

 

 

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Thank you for your words Jeff.

 

I'm am thinking of a book, not about my benzo journey but more about transformation.  What we go through and why,  as human beings is fascinating to me.

 

I am wishing you lots of good days ahead and I look forward to reading your updates and success story.  I know you will continue to take good care of yourself because you deserve it. God bless you too.

 

Final Healing.

 

:smitten::)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi there,

I posted in this forum previously and am currently on day 14 of a ~10% cut from my stable dose of 2mg to 1.75mg and am having an incredibly difficult time.

 

I've gone through the thread reading page after page but I can't seem to find anyone else who has had a bad reaction cutting such a relatively small amount at such a high dose. I've been checking people's signatures and it seems like it is possible to get off this medication but I can't find posts where people have gone into detail where I can find myself relating to them as they're either cutting at this dosage (around 2mg) without much of a reaction or posting about reactions at a much lower overall dose (under 1 mg).

 

Could someone please help me with finding an inspiring thread or post history where I can use it as a bit of a North Star? I realize everyone has a different journey but I'm feeling fairly alone in my experience.

 

Thanks for your time to read,

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Hi ClonePam

 

I'm sorry you're having a difficult time. Was it only your recent cut that resulted in these symptoms?

 

As you probably know there could be a number of reasons for that. From my own experience I could offer you two. When I cut from 1mg to 0.93mg it was a 6% cut. It was pretty tough. I was still functioning but having a rough time. I couldn't understand why I would respond so badly to only 6% at such a high dose. I then switched to micro tapering. It worked much better for my body. It's not necessarily the answer for everyone and it certainly has other complications to consider but worked for me.

 

Recently I got hit by a wave out of nowhere. I was tapering between 7-9%. I now think that the 9% was too big for me. So even if you taper within the guidelines the actual percentage might just be too much for your body to handle. You might want to consider a lower percentage at your next cut and see how it goes?

 

Hopefully this cut levels out for you soon.  :smitten:

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Thank you so much for responding to my message. It may not seem like much but to someone like me who doesn't have anyone who can relate to these challenges even a quick reply can be a huge help. :)

 

Yes my symptoms only started within the last two weeks. I may do some investigating on micro-tapering but I think at this point I'm going to hold at 1.75 for a month or so even after I get to a stable state just to try and live life a little. Isn't my dose a little too high for microdosing? I'm still not super familiar with the process but am going to look into it!

 

Assuming on your journey down to 1mg you did a cut and hold, did you find that your symptoms began to subside after the two week mark? Might just be wishful thinking on my part that the worst of this cut is behind me.

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I think holding is a very wise decision. You've had quite a rocky journey to date with your fluctuating doses and it might just be that your body needs time out to adjust and stabilize.

 

When I held at 0.93 I think I felt better within 2-3 weeks. But this last hold was a 5 week hold and I only started to feel a major improvement after a month.

 

I don't think there's any rhyme or reason or logic to when we start feeling better after holding. I think it's an individual thing.

 

I do support and think taking a proper break like a month can only benefit you. Please keep us updated on how it goes!

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New to this thread but suffering greatly at 10 months off klonopin. Physically the worst.. nausea.. dizzy spells.. developed essiential tremor being treated for heart palpitations (pvcs) now experiencing hand weakness strange tingling weakness in left hand. I’m really far out and still get bouts of air hunger. Would really love to hear from anyone who has suffered this much physically. I’m trying as hard to hold firm and keep going but it’s truly becoming unbearable ( did I mention my left eye is now twitching)

I came off klonopin fast and it was brutal but by now to have so many new symptoms is destroying my resolve.

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I think holding is a very wise decision. You've had quite a rocky journey to date with your fluctuating doses and it might just be that your body needs time out to adjust and stabilize.

 

When I held at 0.93 I think I felt better within 2-3 weeks. But this last hold was a 5 week hold and I only started to feel a major improvement after a month.

 

I don't think there's any rhyme or reason or logic to when we start feeling better after holding. I think it's an individual thing.

 

I do support and think taking a proper break like a month can only benefit you. Please keep us updated on how it goes!

 

 

Will do! And thank you again  :)

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Hi there,

I posted in this forum previously and am currently on day 14 of a ~10% cut from my stable dose of 2mg to 1.75mg and am having an incredibly difficult time.

 

I've gone through the thread reading page after page but I can't seem to find anyone else who has had a bad reaction cutting such a relatively small amount at such a high dose. I've been checking people's signatures and it seems like it is possible to get off this medication but I can't find posts where people have gone into detail where I can find myself relating to them as they're either cutting at this dosage (around 2mg) without much of a reaction or posting about reactions at a much lower overall dose (under 1 mg).

 

Could someone please help me with finding an inspiring thread or post history where I can use it as a bit of a North Star? I realize everyone has a different journey but I'm feeling fairly alone in my experience.

 

Thanks for your time to read,

 

I microtapered from 6mg/day of k all the way down (after eventually getting off of several other psych meds first). It saved my butt!! I just flat out couldn't do anything other than a tiny cut with each cut and even from the very beginning. After a while I just forgot about it all and tried to live the best I could without dwelling too much on the process or journey. Things got better along the way, but there were some rough times in there. Your finish line is out there!!!

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Hi there,

I posted in this forum previously and am currently on day 14 of a ~10% cut from my stable dose of 2mg to 1.75mg and am having an incredibly difficult time.

 

I've gone through the thread reading page after page but I can't seem to find anyone else who has had a bad reaction cutting such a relatively small amount at such a high dose. I've been checking people's signatures and it seems like it is possible to get off this medication but I can't find posts where people have gone into detail where I can find myself relating to them as they're either cutting at this dosage (around 2mg) without much of a reaction or posting about reactions at a much lower overall dose (under 1 mg).

 

Could someone please help me with finding an inspiring thread or post history where I can use it as a bit of a North Star? I realize everyone has a different journey but I'm feeling fairly alone in my experience.

 

Thanks for your time to read,

 

I microtapered from 6mg/day of k all the way down (after eventually getting off of several other psych meds first). It saved my butt!! I just flat out couldn't do anything other than a tiny cut with each cut and even from the very beginning. After a while I just forgot about it all and tried to live the best I could without dwelling too much on the process or journey. Things got better along the way, but there were some rough times in there. Your finish line is out there!!!

 

Thanks for your encouraging words Ultra! I just wish I knew when on this taper I'll have turned a corner and notice a significant balancing out as its been 17 days. I'm considering updosing slightly if things are still rocky on the weekend.

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I just wish I knew when on this taper I'll have turned a corner and notice a significant balancing out as its been 17 days. I'm considering updosing slightly if things are still rocky on the weekend.

 

If you are noticing some improvement I would consider holding a bit longer rather than updosing (and I have nothing against updosing, I often recommend it!). I personally only experienced a significant improvement of symptoms after 4 weeks with my last hold. If there's absolutely no improvement, then maybe updosing is worth it, but if you've seen some, but not huge improvement, I would suggest holding a little bit longer.

 

I remember I was so discouraged when my holding wasn't paying off and then suddenly, one morning the wave was just gone and I felt so good. You need to do what you think is best though.

 

You've got this!  :smitten:

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Is anyone doing a dry DMT with Accord tablets? What is the most accurate scale for this that doesn't cost thousands of dollars? I'm considering DMT after I had some trouble with a liquid titration.
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Hello, hereforhelp. Off the top of my head, members who have dry tapered clonazepam include Bob7, Final healing, Loveisalluneed, and WIP.  You could try reading their posting histories to see if they shared what brand of clonazepam and/or scale they used.

 

Re: your question on your other thread about what formulation my compounding pharmacist uses ... it’s this one:

 

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

Edit: member name corection

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Thank you for your answers on those items.

 

Now I have another question you might be able to help with: I've heard switching from tablet to liquid can be like a cut in itself, which I seem to be feeling now with back aches, and fog, and some GI stuff, but if I've only cut out one portion of a tablet for liquid (.125mg), would I have to go through this all over again each time I reduce my another portion of a tablet, or would it even out once I get through and titrate down the equivalent of .125mg?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Hello, hereforhelp.  Some people experience the switch from tablet to liquid as a reduction in dose whereas others do not.  There are multiple possible reasons for this (e.g. differences in potency and bioavailability between the liquid and tablets, partial absorption via the mucous membranes in the mouth versus just the GI tract, dosing/measurement errors).

 

When I started using my compounded suspension, it “felt” a bit different than the tablets, but after 3 days or so, my body adjusted to it.

 

How many times a day do you dose?  Do you plan to make reductions in only one dose at a time?  Or across doses?  If you reduce across doses, your body should be accustomed to the liquid and its effects.

 

Speaking of liquids, if you are still mulling options, are you aware that we have current and past members who have used whole fat, homogenized milk and regular clonazepam tablets to make a homebrew liquid?

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Hi Libertas,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

I dose twice a day (morning and bedtime). I was planning to cut the morning one first, but I may do it across both. I'm not sure. I have to get to that point. :|

 

But I have to find a DMT method that works for me. Currently I'm experiencing pretty severe lower back aches (flu-like). Otherwise I've been fine today. This concerns me, because in my two dry cuts, I only had back pain in the second of higher percentage, and it didn't start until about day nine. This started on day one of substituting the liquid.

 

I've heard about the milk, but isn't it a ton of waste of milk and tablets? And do you get a decent suspension with the milk?

 

I just don't know if this some intense withdrawal or just some sort of adjustment period.

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I dose twice a day (morning and bedtime).

 

I suggest you stay with that dosing schedule unless your symptoms indicate an adjustment is needed. For more information on this topic, see “What is Interdose Withdrawal?” and “Dosing Multiple Times a Day” below.

 

But I have to find a DMT method that works for me. Currently I'm experiencing pretty severe lower back aches (flu-like). Otherwise I've been fine today. This concerns me, because in my two dry cuts, I only had back pain in the second of higher percentage, and it didn't start until about day nine. This started on day one of substituting the liquid.

 

Hmm ... when you substituted liquid, did you also make a reduction in dose? What type of liquid are you using?

 

I've heard about the milk, but isn't it a ton of waste of milk and tablets?

 

Not necessarily. It depends on the size of the batch you make and the reduction technique you use — measure/discard/ingest versus measure/ingest.  In the former you measure the reduction, discard it, then consume the remainder.  In the latter, you measure the desired dose and ingest it.  For example, seekingtoheal describes the procedure she uses to prepare and dose her homebrew clonazepam milk here:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=253971.msg3304228#msg3304228

 

Note that seekingtoheal only makes enough homebrew to last three days.  IMO this is a wise decision on her part because the stability of homebrew liquids is unknown. You may read claims by other members that homebrew liquids are “shelf-stable” and can be stored/used for 2 weeks or longer, but these claims have not, to my knowledge, been substantiated. In the absence of a stability-indicating assay, I personally would only store/use homebrew liquid for 5 days maximum.

 

And do you get a decent suspension with the milk?

 

Homebrew liquid made with regular tablets and milk has been used successfully by many individuals over the years to taper clonazepam. My understanding of the theory behind this approach is that clonazepam is lipophilic. Consequently, the drug molecules have an “affinity” for the fat molecules in the milk (if the milk is high fat). Because the fat molecules are in suspension with the water in the milk, the drug molecules are distributed evenly throughout the milk (if the milk is homogenized).

 

What is Interdose Withdrawal?

Interdose withdrawal occurs when withdrawal symptoms emerge in between scheduled doses. It is common in people who are prescribed benzodiazepines, especially those who become physically dependent by taking them beyond the 2-4 week recommended time frame. While interdose withdrawal typically occurs with short half-life benzodiazepines, like Ativan or Xanax, it can and does occur with longer half life benzodiazepines like Klonopin, Valium, Librium and Tranxene.

 

Source:

https://www.benzoinfo.com/interdose-withdrawal/

 

Dosing Multiple Times per Day

Depending on the half-life of their particular benzodiazepine, many patients find it helpful to take a dose several times per day (while keeping their total daily dose the same). Patients who dose evenly and at regular intervals may be more likely to complete a successful benzodiazepine taper because they don’t experience peaks and valleys in drug serum levels throughout the day that may make discontinuation intolerable.

 

For example, some patients taking diazepam benefit from evenly dividing their doses and taking it two or three times a day; some on clonazepam benefit from dosing three or four times a day; and some taking lorazepam need to dose four or five times a day. Some patients on alprazolam require five or six doses a day just to maintain steady serum levels. Where possible, all doses should remain as even as possible (measured in milligrams) as well.

 

Source:

https://www.benzoinfo.com/benzodiazepine-tapering-strategies/#dosing

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I dose twice a day (morning and bedtime).

 

I suggest you stay with that dosing schedule unless your symptoms indicate an adjustment is needed. For more information on this topic, see “What is Interdose Withdrawal?” and “Dosing Multiple Times a Day” below.

 

But I have to find a DMT method that works for me. Currently I'm experiencing pretty severe lower back aches (flu-like). Otherwise I've been fine today. This concerns me, because in my two dry cuts, I only had back pain in the second of higher percentage, and it didn't start until about day nine. This started on day one of substituting the liquid.

 

Hmm ... when you substituted liquid, did you also make a reduction in dose? What type of liquid are you using?

 

I've heard about the milk, but isn't it a ton of waste of milk and tablets?

 

Not necessarily. It depends on the size of the batch you make and the reduction technique you use — measure/discard/ingest versus measure/ingest.  In the former you measure the reduction, discard it, then consume the remainder.  In the latter, you measure the desired dose and ingest it.  For example, seekingtoheal describes the procedure she uses to prepare and dose her homebrew clonazepam milk here:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=253971.msg3304228#msg3304228

 

Note that seekingtoheal only makes enough homebrew to last three days.  IMO this is a wise decision on her part because the stability of homebrew liquids is unknown. You may read claims by other members that homebrew liquids are “shelf-stable” and can be stored/used for 2 weeks or longer, but these claims have not, to my knowledge, been substantiated. In the absence of a stability-indicating assay, I personally would only store/use homebrew liquid for 5 days maximum.

 

And do you get a decent suspension with the milk?

 

Homebrew liquid made with regular tablets and milk has been used successfully by many individuals over the years to taper clonazepam. My understanding of the theory behind this approach is that clonazepam is lipophilic. Consequently, the drug molecules have an “affinity” for the fat molecules in the milk (if the milk is high fat). Because the fat molecules are in suspension with the water in the milk, the drug molecules are distributed evenly throughout the milk (if the milk is homogenized).

 

What is Interdose Withdrawal?

Interdose withdrawal occurs when withdrawal symptoms emerge in between scheduled doses. It is common in people who are prescribed benzodiazepines, especially those who become physically dependent by taking them beyond the 2-4 week recommended time frame. While interdose withdrawal typically occurs with short half-life benzodiazepines, like Ativan or Xanax, it can and does occur with longer half life benzodiazepines like Klonopin, Valium, Librium and Tranxene.

 

Source:

https://www.benzoinfo.com/interdose-withdrawal/

 

Dosing Multiple Times per Day

Depending on the half-life of their particular benzodiazepine, many patients find it helpful to take a dose several times per day (while keeping their total daily dose the same). Patients who dose evenly and at regular intervals may be more likely to complete a successful benzodiazepine taper because they don’t experience peaks and valleys in drug serum levels throughout the day that may make discontinuation intolerable.

 

For example, some patients taking diazepam benefit from evenly dividing their doses and taking it two or three times a day; some on clonazepam benefit from dosing three or four times a day; and some taking lorazepam need to dose four or five times a day. Some patients on alprazolam require five or six doses a day just to maintain steady serum levels. Where possible, all doses should remain as even as possible (measured in milligrams) as well.

 

Source:

https://www.benzoinfo.com/benzodiazepine-tapering-strategies/#dosing

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I did not make a reduction in dose. I did try to increase a touch to see if the symptoms would go away. I could not get it to work for me. It was like I took a major cut. The liquid was compounded using an Oral Suspend and my same brand of tablets at a concentration of .125mg/mL, but it was not working like the tablets do. It felt like I was not taking anything. I was trying to do a liquid-tablet hybrid and only replace part of a tablet.

 

I wonder if milk would somehow work where the other liquids have failed.

 

I'm considering pill shaving and a scale to get down further at this point.

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You are welcome, hereforhelp. Am I remembering correctly that this is the second liquid you’ve tried (the first was a homebrew made using tablets/vodka/water)? 

 

Some individuals don’t do well with liquids.  For example, member hikinggirl tried liquid at least two times and was unable to tolerate it.  So, dry titration is definitely worth consideration.  Members I can recall who have used this approach include Final healing, loveisalluneed, RileyJax, WIP, and Bob7.  Another dry option is compounded capsules; member nolongeranxiousbut used these.  It also might be possible to find a compounding pharmacist who has the expertise and equipment to make very-low-dose compounded tablets (compounding pharmacists in The Netherlands have developed a technology to do this; to learn more, visit https://www.taperingstrip.com/).

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm at 0.08 I don't remember the jump dose, I'm so insomniac the past couple of days weeks, can the low dose be the cause?  struggling

 

Hi Bonty,

 

Yes, the struggles with insomnia can be due to the low dose. Or are you off completely?

 

Now your brain has to heal and learn how to ease you into sleep.  I had broken sleep for the first 3-4 months I was off.  I just would wake up every few hours and the sleep was light. 

 

I'm now 9 months off and my sleep is getting better.  I still wake up every few hours but the quality of sleep is better and I'm able to get back to sleep most of the time.  I do take 50mgs of Magnesium Glycinate at night to relax and then another 50mgs if I wake up and feel I'm not going to drop easily. Magnesium doesn't knock me out but just relaxes me and then my body takes over. 

 

For me the insomnia got better with time as it has for many peop.e

 

Are you still doing the other work with Kat?

 

Final Healing

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Hi HF, 

 

thank you!  not off at 0.08 k  and still on celexa 5mg. Yes I have been having broken sleep  all taper but it got  rougher lately, exactly like you describe. I also take mag. but it contenes b6  will change it.

I thought it was a conflict I had  but  it most be all of it together.

 

I recently stop seeing Kat  bc I didn't make it to some sessions.  She has helped me a lot and want to return to the sessions. I had a class yesterday and couldn't make it, that draw my off.  thankyou for the encouragement!! So good to hear your progress :)

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