The Klonopin Klub#2

I really don't know if the liquid or the DMT was my problem. I only started the liquid - very small part of daily dose - when I started the DLMT. I was able to stabilize with small part liquid when I held for a few weeks. It could have been getting used to the liquid part of the DMT taper and not the DMT that caused the anxiety spike. I really don't have enough data to tell.

 

I started with 0.041 mg liquid out of 0.622 daily dose so 6.5% of the daily dose.

hi! Still compounded pills and they're working great... I feel fine... only 9 pills left! 8 in 15 minutes. Looking forward to not dosing clonazepam 3 times a day. At 0.015 total a day and will go from that to zero.

Wow! Only 8 more pills to go - what an accomplishment!

 

Thanks ever so for responding.  I am eager to learn more about the details of your use of compounded pills.  Have you shared this in one of your posts to this thread or elsewhere?  If not, would you feel comfortable providing a bit more detail here?  For example, what was your Rx for the compounded pills?  How many pills at what dose for how long? Did your pdoc have to change the Rx each time you made a reduction?

My daily doses and date of each drop are in my signature... so for the last year I've been going down by 0.03 per taper and with three pills a day that's going down by 0.01 for each of the capsules so yes, my pdoc had to keep calling in prescriptions for me for the new doses to the compounding pharmacy... I would email her the new dose and the quantity of pills I wanted and she would call it in (or I'd have her do it with printed info during a session). Later we got smarter and called in 3 taper prescriptions at once for the compounding pharmacy to have on file with Dispense After dates on the second two prescriptions in the batch.. I always made sure I had some leeway picking up if I wanted to drop early. So right now I'm at 0.015mg and each capsule is 0.005mg.

 

Previous pill doses were 0.015 (0.045 a day), 0.025 (0.075 a day), 0.035 (0.105 a day), etc...

 

I was doing about 4 week tapers a year ago but have been 16-17 days mostly lately.

 

I'm lucky she was very supportive and let me decide what I wanted... she had no experience. I often was conservative with how many days I wanted for a taper and would go down earlier. For example in July I had a week long family reunion out of state.. originally I thought I'd stay on a stable dosage throughout but then decided to drop half way through the vacation as things were going so well.

My daily doses and date of each drop are in my signature... so for the last year I've been going down by 0.03 per taper and with three pills a day that's going down by 0.01 for each of the capsules so yes, my pdoc had to keep calling in prescriptions for me for the new doses to the compounding pharmacy... I would email her the new dose and the quantity of pills I wanted and she would call it in (or I'd have her do it with printed info during a session). Later we got smarter and called in 3 taper prescriptions at once for the compounding pharmacy to have on file with Dispense After dates on the second two prescriptions in the batch.. I always made sure I had some leeway picking up if I wanted to drop early. So right now I'm at 0.015mg and each capsule is 0.005mg.

 

Previous pill doses were 0.015 (0.045 a day), 0.025 (0.075 a day), 0.035 (0.105 a day), etc...

 

I was doing about 4 week tapers a year ago but have been 16-17 days mostly lately.

 

I'm lucky she was very supportive and let me decide what I wanted... she had no experience. I often was conservative with how many days I wanted for a taper and would go down earlier. For example in July I had a week long family reunion out of state.. originally I thought I'd stay on a stable dosage throughout but then decided to drop half way through the vacation as things were going so well.

This is incredibly helpful, nolonger! Might I ask a few more questions?

 

How many pills did you get at a time?  Three pills a day times 16-17 days? (3 X 17 = 51).  Or more?  Was your pharmacist ok with making such a relatively small number at a time?

 

What did you do to make sure you had some leeway to drop early?  Did you also build in leeway to hold?  If so, how?

 

Did your insurance cover the compounding costs or did you have to pay out of pocket?

 

Your creative and thoughtful approach to tapering is impressive.  Thank you ever so much for sharing it with us!  L

 

How many pills did you get at a time?  Three pills a day times 16-17 days? (3 X 17 = 51).  Or more?  Was your pharmacist ok with making such a relatively small number at a time?

 

My current prescription has 16 days so 48 capsules. Both pdoc and pharmacist were fine with that.

 

What did you do to make sure you had some leeway to drop early?  Did you also build in leeway to hold?  If so, how?

 

I had my pdoc call in prescriptions so I could pickup after 14 days from last drop or had the Dispense After Date set to be only 14 days. I didn't build in much leeway to hold... conservatively I requested a few more days than I thought I needed each taper level... my pdoc would have called in the same dosage for a new prescription if I'd had to hold. I luckily wasn't having much problems tapering this year though and didn't hold.

 

Did your insurance cover the compounding costs or did you have to pay out of pocket?

 

I have great insurance but they don't cover generic clonazepam, only brand name klonopin... because of that although they cover compounding they wouldn't cover compounding generic clonazepam that they didn't cover uncompounded. My last prescription was $70, basically all compounding as the generic clonazepam is dirt cheap. I have an FSA which I've used to help a bit with the costs.

 

 

I have great insurance but they don't cover generic clonazepam, only brand name klonopin... because of that although they cover compounding they wouldn't cover compounding generic clonazepam that they didn't cover uncompounded.

First and foremost, thank you so much for answering all of my questions.  Your willingness to help others is much appreciated.

 

That’s interesting that your insurance only covers brand Klonopin.  I wonder if the folks who make formulary decisions have concerns about the quality/safety of the generics???

 

I am joining your compounding pharmacist in cheering you on toward the finish line of your taper.  You are an inspiration to us all!

Thanks Libertas! I'm off! Will report back in a week or so... usually feel my drops around days 9-10.

 

I hadn't realized until I submitted the compounding receipts and was told 'we don't cover clonazepam' that the insurance hadn't covered any of the generic tablets from CVS... as said the generic is dirt cheap and the amounts were always less than a $10 copay.... perhaps that's why.

Way to go, nolonger! Sending you major congratulations and kudos on getting to zero.  Please do keep us posted.  (Your lag time of 9-10 days makes sense given the half-life of clonazepam.  My understanding is that is takes approx. 3 - 5 half-lives for a drug to be eliminated from our systems.)

 

So, your insurance/Pharmacy Benefits Manager is basically saying, “Generic clonazepam is too cheap to cover.”?

My daily doses and date of each drop are in my signature... so for the last year I've been going down by 0.03 per taper and with three pills a day that's going down by 0.01 for each of the capsules so yes, my pdoc had to keep calling in prescriptions for me for the new doses to the compounding pharmacy... I would email her the new dose and the quantity of pills I wanted and she would call it in (or I'd have her do it with printed info during a session). Later we got smarter and called in 3 taper prescriptions at once for the compounding pharmacy to have on file with Dispense After dates on the second two prescriptions in the batch.. I always made sure I had some leeway picking up if I wanted to drop early. So right now I'm at 0.015mg and each capsule is 0.005mg.

 

Previous pill doses were 0.015 (0.045 a day), 0.025 (0.075 a day), 0.035 (0.105 a day), etc...

 

I was doing about 4 week tapers a year ago but have been 16-17 days mostly lately.

 

I'm lucky she was very supportive and let me decide what I wanted... she had no experience. I often was conservative with how many days I wanted for a taper and would go down earlier. For example in July I had a week long family reunion out of state.. originally I thought I'd stay on a stable dosage throughout but then decided to drop half way through the vacation as things were going so well.

 

I just wanted to say congratulations to you! This gives me the inspiration and fortitude to keep trying and knowing I will be there one day! Job well done!

i there, I have been on klonopin for 15 years, I was started on it at just 15 years old. I am up to 5mg/day still have anxiety and panic attacks but I want to get off of it or at least lower my dose as I do not feel it's ever really helped. Any advice/ help would be greatly appreciated!!

i there, I have been on klonopin for 15 years, I was started on it at just 15 years old. I am up to 5mg/day still have anxiety and panic attacks but I want to get off of it or at least lower my dose as I do not feel it's ever really helped. Any advice/ help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Hi there Sky.

 

There are various ways to leave clonazepam behind you. You can do a direct taper by cutting your pills with a pill cutter, wait till your blood levels drop to the lower level and cut a piece again using that pill cutter.

 

Or you can crossover to diazepam and taper from that using a microtaper with syringes and liquid. The liquid could be whole full fat milk, vodka 80% proof with water, or propylene glycol known as PG.

 

And you can also taper right from clonazepam itself using those same liquids.

 

I’m tapering clonazepam myself, using syringes and whole full fat milk. I’m buy my milk at a local grocery store, and the syringes come from vitality medical. I prefer the Becton Dickinson (BD) syringes, but I’m told that you can find the same syringes on Amazon.

 

I suggest you go to the Planning your Taper part of this forum and the people there can help you find the best taper plan for you.

i there, I have been on klonopin for 15 years, I was started on it at just 15 years old. I am up to 5mg/day still have anxiety and panic attacks but I want to get off of it or at least lower my dose as I do not feel it's ever really helped. Any advice/ help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Hi there Sky.

 

There are various ways to leave clonazepam behind you. You can do a direct taper by cutting your pills with a pill cutter, wait till your blood levels drop to the lower level and cut a piece again using that pill cutter.

 

Or you can crossover to diazepam and taper from that using a microtaper with syringes and liquid. The liquid could be whole full fat milk, vodka 80% proof with water, or propylene glycol known as PG.

 

And you can also taper right from clonazepam itself using those same liquids.

 

I’m tapering clonazepam myself, using syringes and whole full fat milk. I’m buy my milk at a local grocery store, and the syringes come from vitality medical. I prefer the Becton Dickinson (BD) syringes, but I’m told that you can find the same syringes on Amazon.

 

I suggest you go to the Planning your Taper part of this forum and the people there can help you find the best taper plan for you.

 

Did you do a liquid taper from the beginning?

i there, I have been on klonopin for 15 years, I was started on it at just 15 years old. I am up to 5mg/day still have anxiety and panic attacks but I want to get off of it or at least lower my dose as I do not feel it's ever really helped. Any advice/ help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Hi there Sky.

 

There are various ways to leave clonazepam behind you. You can do a direct taper by cutting your pills with a pill cutter, wait till your blood levels drop to the lower level and cut a piece again using that pill cutter.

 

Or you can crossover to diazepam and taper from that using a microtaper with syringes and liquid. The liquid could be whole full fat milk, vodka 80% proof with water, or propylene glycol known as PG.

 

And you can also taper right from clonazepam itself using those same liquids.

 

I’m tapering clonazepam myself, using syringes and whole full fat milk. I’m buy my milk at a local grocery store, and the syringes come from vitality medical. I prefer the Becton Dickinson (BD) syringes, but I’m told that you can find the same syringes on Amazon.

 

I suggest you go to the Planning your Taper part of this forum and the people there can help you find the best taper plan for you.

 

Did you do a liquid taper from the beginning?

 

FH,

 

I crossed to clonazepam from alprazolam years ago. I wanted to stop the alprazolam, but my then Pdoc did not know how. In fact, to this very day, I don’t think she knew anything about benzos at all.

 

I wanted off so I took charge of my own crossover as she had “bungled” it. This landed me in the ER as the difference between alprazolam and clonazepam is very different in terms of half life and duration of action. She was happy to give me an Rx  for  clonazepam, but beyond she seemed to know nothing.

 

After successfully fully crossing over, I found a new Pdoc who knew more. But she was not in favor of liquid tapering at all. She want me to stay on clonazepam, and I just listened. I figured all that I need was an Rx, and I could still do the liquid taper on my own.

 

Since then, I have continued to liquid microtaper with holds in between the taper cuts.

i there, I have been on klonopin for 15 years, I was started on it at just 15 years old. I am up to 5mg/day still have anxiety and panic attacks but I want to get off of it or at least lower my dose as I do not feel it's ever really helped. Any advice/ help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

My advice would be to go slow and listen to your body. I took benzos beginning at age 8, stopped at 24 (cold turkeyed, knew nothing), and now have been on K for a long time, having issues getting off. Due to your high dosage you can probably handle slightly larger cuts in the beginning. Do you have a doctor who will help you?

my doctor is willing to help however I need but she has never done a taper before so she says she trusts the knowledge I have gotten through research and to listen to my body. another question I have is I currently have bad anxiety and poor moods/concentration. is it wise to start taper now? or let them put me on something else so in her words im my best self when starting taper?

my doctor is willing to help however I need but she has never done a taper before so she says she trusts the knowledge I have gotten through research and to listen to my body. another question I have is I currently have bad anxiety and poor moods/concentration. is it wise to start taper now? or let them put me on something else so in her words im my best self when starting taper?

 

Hi Sky,

 

If you look up the side effects of Klonipin you will see that poor concentration, depression and even agitation are listed among others.  These are different from withdrawal symptoms.  They come from just taking the medication itself. 

 

I can't advise you about taking another med but as someone who was pollydrugged, I'm not a big fan of adding in other meds. 

 

 

my doctor is willing to help however I need but she has never done a taper before so she says she trusts the knowledge I have gotten through research and to listen to my body. another question I have is I currently have bad anxiety and poor moods/concentration. is it wise to start taper now? or let them put me on something else so in her words im my best self when starting taper?

 

Hi Sky,

 

If you look up the side effects of Klonipin you will see that poor concentration, depression and even agitation are listed among others.  These are different from withdrawal symptoms.  They come from just taking the medication itself. 

 

I can't advise you about taking another med but as someone who was pollydrugged, I'm not a big fan of adding in other meds.

 

Sky,

 

Final is making good points here. Clonazepam has numerous side effects. Years ago, ago I made a list of them from the Mayo Clinic by printing them from my computer. I still have that list today, and I’m looking right at it now.

 

After you take a benzo for a long time, meaning longer than maybe a month (everyone is different and has their own timeframe for developing a dependency) the very things that you were given the drug for such as anxiety, trouble sleeping, moodiness, inability to concentrate will become your constant “companions” just from taking the drug as prescribed.

 

I’m not sure what your doctor means by putting you on something else. If she means Valium or any other benzo, I’d just stick with the clonazepam and taper from that using the syringes and liquid you prefer whether it be the vodka/water, whole milk, or the PG. You are still free to consider Valium if you want to though.

 

If she means adding another psychoactive substance like an antidepressant, I’d try to avoid that. It’s another drug that you may want off of, and may require a taper. And your Central Nervous System will have to adjust to adding another drug like an antidepressant.

 

Lastly, I want to add that there are millions of people that do fine with benzos, antidepressants, both together and stay on these the rest of their lives.

 

But you are having troubles here as you’ve joined BB so may as well get on with the taper if you want to do so in my opinion.

my doctor is willing to help however I need but she has never done a taper before so she says she trusts the knowledge I have gotten through research and to listen to my body. another question I have is I currently have bad anxiety and poor moods/concentration. is it wise to start taper now? or let them put me on something else so in her words im my best self when starting taper?

 

Hi Sky,

 

If you look up the side effects of Klonipin you will see that poor concentration, depression and even agitation are listed among others.  These are different from withdrawal symptoms.  They come from just taking the medication itself. 

 

I can't advise you about taking another med but as someone who was pollydrugged, I'm not a big fan of adding in other meds.

 

i agree.  i was also polydrugged and agree with what Final said about adding more.

my doctor is willing to help however I need but she has never done a taper before so she says she trusts the knowledge I have gotten through research and to listen to my body. another question I have is I currently have bad anxiety and poor moods/concentration. is it wise to start taper now? or let them put me on something else so in her words im my best self when starting taper?

 

Hi Sky,

 

If you look up the side effects of Klonipin you will see that poor concentration, depression and even agitation are listed among others.  These are different from withdrawal symptoms.  They come from just taking the medication itself. 

 

I can't advise you about taking another med but as someone who was pollydrugged, I'm not a big fan of adding in other meds.

 

i agree.  i was also polydrugged and agree with what Final said about adding more.

 

I also agree as I just stated. Fortunately for me, I’ve refused to take any other psychoactive substance other than this clonazepam. I’ve learned over time and reading what others have gone through.

 

I just wish I’d never taken that first benzo, but I did so I’m doing the best I can to get off of it.

Hi there,

I started my taper today at my morning dose a small reduction and im already overwhelmed with anxiety and panic attacks. Has anyone else done this while working and taktakitaktakintaktakitaktaking care of kids? I just dont know if i made the right decision to taper while I was at least able to complete daily tasks on the 5 mg/day. Help feel like giving up and it's only day 1

Hi there,

I started my taper today at my morning dose a small reduction and im already overwhelmed with anxiety and panic attacks. Has anyone else done this while working and taktakitaktakintaktakitaktaking care of kids? I just dont know if i made the right decision to taper while I was at least able to complete daily tasks on the 5 mg/day. Help feel like giving up and it's only day 1

 

Hi Sky,

 

May I ask much you tapered off of your morning dose and what tapering method you are using?

 

I dont have kids but I know there are people who do and also who work.  They may jump on here with advice. 

 

I had, and can still have a lot of fear when I make a cut due to a past withdrawal.  It's okay to be afraid and it might be in the mix. 

 

I think understanding how much you cut will be a big help. 

 

Hi there,

I started my taper today at my morning dose a small reduction and im already overwhelmed with anxiety and panic attacks. Has anyone else done this while working and taktakitaktakintaktakitaktaking care of kids? I just dont know if i made the right decision to taper while I was at least able to complete daily tasks on the 5 mg/day. Help feel like giving up and it's only day 1

 

Sky,

 

You had panic attacks and anxiety before this taper started as you said in your first post. So I wouldn’t expect that to have changed on your first attempt to taper on this day.

 

And as FH asked, how much did you taper as in what is this small reduction you refer to?

I take 2 mg morning 2 mg afternoon and 1mg at bedtime. I cut down to 1.75mg for morning dose and left the rest the same

I take 2 mg morning 2 mg afternoon and 1mg at bedtime. I cut down to 1.75mg for morning dose and left the rest the same

 

Sky,

 

That’s a 9.5% reduction in your daily dose. Ashton used to recommend 5% to 10% every 2 weeks, but later on, she saw patients having so much trouble with that amount of reduction that she revised it way lower.

 

I think you cut too much on your first attempt, and we want this to be your first and only taper. If this one doesn’t work out, you may have trouble with another attempt. So let’s do this right.

 

Honestly, if you want this to work out, you should probably do liquid microtapering and consult with the titration section. People there can give you a very good titration plan. I don’t know if you’ve been there already or not, but if you haven’t, please go there.

 

You can cut these pills with a pill cutter, but cutting the amount you cut was just too much in my opinion. And the lower you go cutting pills with a pill cutter, the pieces of the pill get very small until they’re so small, you just can’t cut them any smaller and yet, they may be too big for your Central Nervous System to handle.

 

Another way to taper is to use a scale and weigh the amounts and file off a little every day. I’m not familiar with that method in detail, but the titration folks are.

 

As FH asked, what method did you use to get to where you are? Yours, someone else’s, or the titration folks? Getting situated with a good taper plan isn’t always easy in the beginning of a taper, but it soon becomes like something you automatically know.

 

So let’s get you going on that. You can either hold where you are and let your blood levels drop to where they will be when that amount you cut out gets out of your system or you can updose back to where you were. Updosing is something that doesn’t work with everyone and I don’t usually recommend doing it. You can try it though, but it’s up to you.

 

The titration section is your best source here for info on good tapering. And you can consider crossing to Valium also. Clonazepam is a very strong drug-25 times stronger than Valium, but whatever you decide, get the info you need.

I take 2 mg morning 2 mg afternoon and 1mg at bedtime. I cut down to 1.75mg for morning dose and left the rest the same

Hello, S8490! 

 

Do I have your numbers right?

 

You were taking a total daily dose of 5 mg (2 + 2 + 1).

 

You reduced your morning 2 mg dose to 1.75 mg. 

 

So, your new (reduced) daily dose was 4.75 mg (1.75 + 2 + 1)

 

4.75 divided by 5 = .95 so you made a 5% reduction.