Short Term Klonopin Dependancy, Trouble Tapering

Hello everyone,

 

I will summarize my past few months quickly, in hopes everyone can follow along.

 

May 1st I was prescribed Lamictal, and started titrating up. After a month, I was at the full dose of 100mg and almost immediately developed a rash and was hospitalized. I then spent the next month trying to taper down, but the rash kept coming back, so I eventually had to stop cold turkey.

 

It's now been three weeks since I stopped completely, and it has been complete hell. The day I stopped, I was also prescribed .5mg Klonopin as needed, because I hadn't slept in almost a week due to tremors/jerking myself awake.

 

The first two weeks, I took anywhere from .25mg a day to sometimes over 1mg, all at different times depending on how I was feeling.

 

I did a little research, and discovered I had what most people say is an extremely short exposure to Klonopin, and at a rather low dosages.

 

When I found this out, I tried to just stop c/t and about 36 hours later I felt some pretty extreme withdrawals (dizzy, fatigued, dp/dr, depression, anxiety, heart palpitations, jerks, etc.  Therefore, I reinstated .125mg 2x/day and it relieved almost all the symptoms I had. I then tried cutting down to .0625mg 2x/day, and felt pretty considerable side effects after that cut too (albeit not as bad as when I quit c/t), and unfortunately had to go back up to .125mg 2x/day again.

 

Therefore, I think I'm rather dependant on that dosage and will have to start my taper from there.

 

I'm also only 3 weeks out after quitting 100mg of Lamictal c/the due to the rash, so my CNS is still pretty screwed up. I've heard from a few people on other forums that trying to cut the Klonopin while I'm already destabilized could just send things into a downward spiral, which I kind of agree with. I just went through 3 weeks of hell and am finally feeling somewhat 'normal', so I really don't want to push my body and mind too much harder... as much as I would love to be off this med.

 

I'm thinking of stabilizing at .125mg 2x/day and then doing a daily micro taper from there. Any thoughts?

 

Should I be posting this somewhere else for more responses?

 

Thanks!

I replied to you on the other thread... I hope you get some more responses here as well.

 

Hello again Troubled Thoughts-

Meowie agrees with me 

Assuming you settle back relatively quickly at your new 0.125x2 dose, a taper could look something like:

 

1) 0.06 + 0.125

2) 0 + 0.125

3) 0 + 0.06

4) 0

 

with 1-2 weeks between each step. I'd really hate to see you spend any more time than necessary on this drug. There may be a few weeks of recovery, but you will get through it!

 

JKS

Hey again Swimming!

 

After I stabilize (hopefully quickly) on the .25mg a day, I will wait a week and then try cutting .06mg and see how that goes. If all goes well then I will continue the pattern you've laid out!

 

I definitely don't want to drag things out, but I don't think my body can handle any noticeable withdrawal symptoms at the moment.

 

I went from .5mg a day to .25mg a day with no problems at all, I guess I just didn't wait long enough before cutting again.

 

And the only reason I reinstated was because of some pretty intense depersonalization and dizziness... otherwise I'd have tried to push through.

 

After 3 weeks of c/t Lamictal withdrawal, my body and mind need a rest!

 

Looks like JustKeepSwimming put together a decent plan. It's great that you're stable. It's tough figuring out what's happening with multiple meds. Being prescribed Klonopin "as needed" is difficult because you can get stuck on a cycle of needing it because you've been using it. And that's not good.

 

Hopefully you'll have a short road to recovery!

Yes it sounds like a good plan for sure. I am on day 3 of taking .125mg 2x/day, and yesterday was one of the worst I've had in a while, but today I feel much better. I'm going to stay at this dosage until next Friday (8 days) and then I'll begin to taper.

 

Just a question, since my body seems pretty sensitive to even very small cuts, would it make more sense to do a daily microtaper? Perhaps like .005mg or .01mg a day? That would get me off in 25 to 50 days.

 

Any thoughts?

Daily cuts can be hard if you're not going liquid. What you could do is make smaller cuts but do them more frequently. Instead of cutting .06 every week you could could cut .03 and hold for 4-5 days. May be easier than daily, but can give you a better sense of accomplishment because you're making more frequent cuts.

 

Whatever you do, be sure to document what you're doing so you can keep track of your cuts and how you're feeling. I kept a calendar when I started my taper and it helped to get everything down on paper and see what I was doing and where I was going. It also gave me a chance to look back and see the progress I'd made. At the time it felt like the process took forever but now that I look back I realize it wasn't too long and I'm glad I made it through.

 

You can do it! You're making all the right steps!

Thanks!

 

I think that sounds like a good plan, doing smaller cuts every 4 or 5 days. I got my Pdoc to call in a script for .125mg ODT of Klonopin, which will be much easier to cut down than the .5mg pills.

 

I do have another question for the group though, since updosing to .125mg 2x/day I feel pretty much the same, if not worse than I did on .0625mg 2x/day.  I am very dizzy, with a constant painful headache, some balance problems, a lot of GI problems, and some weird twitching/spasms [especially behind my eyes when trying to sleep, and when I glance at something too quickly]). Is this normal?

 

Should I just keep taking .125mg 2x/day or should I change anything? Maybe start my taper now? Or keep trying to stabilize?

 

I also have a very tough time understanding what being stable means, as I haven't felt 'stable' in over two months now.

Troubled, if you haven't felt "stable" during the time you've been on clonazepam, then the chances of you "stabilizing" and feeling okay are not good, at any dosage. (Stable is kind of a "you'll know it when you feel it" thing). Holding and/or updosing will not give you the relief you are looking for. The symptoms you are having are from the drug itself. I highly suggest you start tapering and get off this poison in a fairly rapid manner.

 

You likely will not feel great during the taper time--unfortunately you'll continue to have the symptoms you are having now, but they will let up a LOT as you get lower in the taper and get off the drug. You will feel a TON better on smaller amounts and after withdrawal. Again, the experiences of those who have been on this drug for longer periods of time have very little relevance to your situation, and you are not going to have the dependence that they have (unless you continue on the drug for while). I would encourage you to not read up on this forum in sections regarding withdrawal and post withdrawal issues as they will only serve to unnecessarily scare you (been there, done that!).

That makes total sense to me, I was kind of thinking the same thing. How fast do you think I should cut? .0625mg every few days?

 

Thanks again!

Yes, if you can cut .0625 every 3 days or so, that should give you a good rate. Are you dry cutting? (sorry if I've missed or forgotten that).

 

You probably won't feel too great until your dosage gets lower, but fortunately it isn't a long time. Just having a plan and moving forward should help a lot with the anxiety.

Okay that sounds good to me... I am dry cutting, but I got my Pdoc to call in .125mg ODT so they should be easy to cut. I could even cut .03mg rather easily as well.

 

I can deal with the anxiety and insomnia with no problem... it was really the dizziness and dp/dr that got me real bad; I have a hard time dealing with that.

Just an update.. last night and this morning I just shaved off a little from each pill before taking them. I know it's not super accurate but I just want to be off this medicine ASAP.

 

Would that be a good plan? Just a shave a little off each day until I'm low enough to jump off?

 

And what's a good jump off point for me? I know everyone's different but I can't seem to find even a ballpark range of what dosage to jump at.

 

Thanks again for all your guys help! Without this forum and it's members I would have no idea what's happening to me, and would be unbelievably scared right now. Instead I feel confident that I have a plan and I know what's going on.

One more update. I tried shaving off what I would estimate is .03mg from my AM and PM dose, and am feeling some withdrawals for sure. Last night I could only sleep for 2 hours, and had a minor anxiety attack before going to sleep. I now have heart palps again, my heart rate is through the roof (80-100bpm the past two days straight), I have no energy, am pretty depressed, and feeling like this is never going to end.

 

Not sure how to proceed now. It's been three days now and I feel like there's no way I could handle making another cut.

Probably a good idea to hold at where you're at for a week. Be patient and know that you'll get beyond this eventually.

One more update. I tried shaving off what I would estimate is .03mg from my AM and PM dose, and am feeling some withdrawals for sure. Last night I could only sleep for 2 hours, and had a minor anxiety attack before going to sleep. I now have heart palps again, my heart rate is through the roof (80-100bpm the past two days straight), I have no energy, am pretty depressed, and feeling like this is never going to end.

 

Not sure how to proceed now. It's been three days now and I feel like there's no way I could handle making another cut.

 

I agree with Travis.  I would hold for a bit and let the symptoms settle down. 

Thanks for the responses! I feel 10 times better now than I did this morning... only minor heart palps, minor headache, the fatigue went away, and my anxiety/depression are basically gone. Its almost like once the Klonopin wears off each afternoon I start to feel better... could this be possible?

 

I also might have failed to mention I am diagnosed rapid cycling Bipolar II, and that probably has a lot to do with my fluctuating symptoms. When I'm depressed I'm beyond depressed and updose... then when I'm manic I feel invincible and make a plan to rapidly taper or go c/t.  I know that's not good but I am currently on no mood stabilizer (as I was hospitalized from Lamictal) and can't start a new one until the Klonopin is out of my system. Otherwise I won't know if it's the new medicine's side effects, Klonopin withdrawals, or the underlying Lamictal withdrawals.

 

Tonight I'll take the same dose (.125MG with a little shaved off) and see how I feel tomorrow, although I'm tempted to not take any tonight since I finally feel "stable" after my morning dose has worn off.

 

I'm thinking a daily liquid taper might be best for me as I would then feel like I'm making progress each day, without overdoing it with massive cuts. The cut and hold technique is tough for me (not the cutting but being patient enough to hold without updosing or cutting again).

 

Thanks for all your help friends!! I don't think I could do it without you all!

Another update, I woke up today and felt better than I have in a long time... I think I may actually be feeling better the lower in dose I go.

 

I only took .0625mg today and I have more energy, no palps, no rapid heart rate, and just a minor headache. Had a major stomach ache this morning, but I'm pretty sure it's from the grapes I ate (it's happened when I ate grapes on an empty stomach before as well). It went away by 11 or so and I had a nice salad for lunch and feel fine.

 

Feeling very confident that I can push this taper as fast as possible. I'm tempted to just stop taking it altogether, but I will continue making cuts and holding for a little before cutting again.

 

I'm now down to .0625mg in the AM and .1mg in the PM.

 

Should my next cut be to .0625mg 2x/day or just the .1mg in the PM?

If it's easier to dose just once a day then maybe you can switch to that. At this low a dosage it's probably ok.

 

It's probably safest to just keep going with your taper rather than stopping altogether because you feel ok. Just stick to your plan. I found it easiest to just sit down once and map out my taper plan, then just do it day to day without trying to overthink it or change it. When you change the plan mid-course you run the risk of second guessing yourself if you get symptoms.

 

My last week was just crumbs. I know it really didn't do much but it made me feel like I was gently gliding to my jump, rather than dropping off. And that's the way to go. I've never looked back.

Troubled, it sounds like you are doing great! Since you are reacting to the med itself and it makes you feel bad, I would split the doses so the amount of med is less per dose. I think you would be just fine jumping, but if you are more comfortable with a rapid taper, go ahead with that, a few more days won't make a huge difference.

Thanks for the responses guys! I'm definitely feeling much more confident and positive now that I have a solid plan. I will probably just continue cutting .03mg every 3 or 4 days so that I stay at the same rate, even though 99% of me just wants to jump at this point.

 

It would definitely make "jumping" much less nerve-wracking if I was just taking crumbs the last few days. The first time I jumped from .25mg a day it was no bueno, and I do not want that to happen again.

 

I've heard that sometimes it take around 5 days to even feel withdrawal symptoms at all... is there any chance that could happen to me and I'm just going to get slammed in a few days?

Probably won't get slammed if symptoms catch up with you. Just feel uncomfortable. It's great that you're feeling more confident and positive! Use that momentum to power through the rough spots.

 

For some perspective, a therapeutic dose is from .5 to 2mg of K per day. Some people on these forums taper from 4-5mg a day. Feel confident that you're only taking the equivalent of 1mg over the course of a whole week. For some, that's just their morning dose!

Thanks Travis!

 

That makes a ton of sense to me.. especially your point about taking less than a therapeutic dose; that never even crossed my mind! It makes me feel much better knowing I'm under that threshold and the Klonopin isn't even doing anything for me anymore.

 

Staying positive and will keep cutting .04mg or so every 5 days. Thanks again for all the support!   

 

I'll update if anything significant changes.

Just wanted to post an update, as I think I may have pushed my taper a little too fast. I am nowilling feeling some withdrawal symptoms again after not having had many at all the past week.

 

July 27th I was at .0625mg in the AM and PM, and have been shaving off a bit of each dose  since then. As of August 1st, I was down to what I'd guess is .04mg in the AM and PM, and was feeling some minor withdrawals. Yesterday I tried to jump, and got hit with some pretty bad dp/dr so I took a night dose of .04mg, and this morning tried to just shave a bit off and take .03mg. However, I'm feeling some pretty bad withdrawals today... the heart palps and rapid heart rate are back, high blood pressure, weird feeling in my head (dp/dr), dizziness, anxiety, and muscle pain. It's not as bad as it was when I tried stopping a few weeks ago, but what concerns me is that I'm still taking about .06mg a day and am feeling these symptoms.

 

I was planning to be off of it yesterday (ten day taper from .125mg), but I guess that's too fast? I really don't want to expose myself to the drug longer than I have to, and so I don't know what to do. Should I just bite the bullet and stop taking it? Should I go back up in dose? Should I stay where I am and hope things level out? As it is now I can't really drive or work, which is very disappointing, especially since I was hoping/planning to be done at this point.

 

It's getting pretty hard to accurately cut pills at this low of a dose too. Should I invest in a .001g scale and start weighing the pills, so I can accurately drop by say .01mg a day?

Congratulate yourself that you're at half of where you were a few weeks ago! Sounds like you may need to slow down a bit or hold for a few days. But it's good news that the symptoms aren't as bad as before. Sounds like you're on the right track if you try to stabilize at .06 a day.

 

For cutting pills, I found it easiest to use a 7 day pill case, cut my pills into relatively equal portions, then divide them into the sections of the case. This means that if I cut the pill into 6 or 8 pieces I would put each of those pieces into a section. Some pieces would be slightly larger or smaller than others, but since they were spread throughout the week it evened the dosage out. I thought of it as taking one .5mg pill over the course of 8 days, rather than .0625 a day. It's not exact, but considering the relatively long half-life of the Klonopin and the low dosage, it worked out fine for me.

I think you are going to be much better off sooner if you just jump at this point. The effects may linger for a day or two, but then you should feel a LOT better. I think your anxiety about getting off the drug might be making things worse, just remember, you have not been on the drug long enough to have any prolonged withdrawal. You will get off and be perfectly fine.

 

But if the thought of jumping is making you totally stress out, cutting crumbs for a day or two is not the worse thing ever. I just think it will needlessly prolong the healing process. Whatever you do--don't updose! That is terribly unhelpful and the chances of it making you feel better are not good.